Topic: [GLBSE] FOO.PPPPT - Perpetual Pure Pirate Pass-Through Bonds - 7% weekly - page 4. (Read 12842 times)

Dividends went out a while ago: 3928 outstanding bonds / 274.96 BTC = 0.07.

About buybacks: I'd be willing to do this once a week, but the problem I see is this (from the contract):

"The value of the weekly coupon will be exactly x% of 1 BTC, where x is the interest rate that the total value of bonds issued receives from the underlying investment."

If I start buying back bonds, the number of bonds issued is no longer equal to the amount of BTC I have in BS&T. If interest rate tiers change, I might end up being liable to pay out more interest than I receive. It probably should have been worded as "number of bonds outstanding". Any suggestions?

This happens naturally - like right now, there are some bonds for sale below my price, which means my bonds won't get sold, and so no new bonds will get issued.


I assume you mean there's no depth on the bid side. I understand the concern. This is a problem that plagues many assets on GLBSE, not just this one (see the supposed GIGAMINING "crash" incident). There's just not enough incentive for people to leave BTC on the bid side of any GLBSE asset. It's hard to compete with 7% a week.


This is hard for me to do until pirate offers an automated withdraw feature. Currently I'd have to email him for every withdraw request, and I'm not sure he'd appreciate a deluge of requests on behalf of bondholders. Deposits are much more streamlined ATM.

I could possibly do a batched withdraw every week. I'll have to think about the procedure a little bit. In the mean time, perhaps it's easiest if you just place an ask at 1.0 BTC. You can even advertise it here for a quicker sale.

If you're going to continually create shares, would you please consider doing something to keep the market from being flooded? Like not sell more shares if there are bonds on the market that day under your scheduled ask? Alternatively, offer a buyback feature to your notes?

There has been very little depth of market on the ask side for a few days. That lack of depth is preventing me from buying more shares.

I've noticed this behaviour too. It's a bit disconcerting for the issuer, wondering if the payment has worked or not.

That's right, the security page seems to get updated a little bit later. But dividends get paid to each asset holder as soon as I pay them - I verify this by having a couple of bonds in my personal account, and I can see the credit come in instantly.

Well that's disappointing. I saw the sales at 1.055, and looked at the dividends and there was nothing. Refreshed a couple times and still only the one dividend from the 4th listed, so I bought a share at 13:23 to test it out. Still no dividend listed as being paid, but eventually at 13:25 the dividend at 13:20 was finally updated on the page. I guess it takes the dividends awhile to work through the system and get update on each security's page.

Dividends just went out. 272.79 BTC paid out to 3897 outstanding shares = 0.07 BTC per share.

Bonds are up for sale at 1.05 again.

The times are AM. GLBSETime = EDT. I tried to use the same format as the time display on the GLBSE website - I guess that's a little confusing. OP has been updated.

Those times are PM, right?

Yes. They will be priced according to the schedule a few posts above (or in the OP). I'm only selling 100 at a time though, then I send the coins to pirate and wait for their acceptance into the account before issuing more and listing them for sale again. The process may be slow, depending on mine and pirate's availability. I intend to automate at least my side of the process.

Will you be issuing new bonds every day?

Sub.
Just got some for 1.05 each, very nice. Seems waiting until the first dividend was the right thing to do - bonds were cheaper (at one point they were 1.27 BTC -- that's 3 weeks interest +1BTC!) and I'm more confident in them.

Now we wait, and hope Pirate doesn't default...

Haha, you were faster than me at announcing this. Happy Monday! All thanks go to Pirate, I'm simply passing on his payouts.


Yes, although the percentage is really on the face value, not sale price. But I will update the title / OP accordingly and clarify this. The 0-fee rate was valid mainly for the IPO. In future, if Pirate ever raises the interest rate tiers and we need to catch up, I will sell at a 0-fee rate again. Until then, I will price these at market rates, because demand is still quite high.

Nice dividend payments today, thanks 

Yes. The title should probably be changed to 0.07BTC weekly.

If you are issuing the bonds at 1.05 and paying out a dividend of 0.07, isn't the interest rate really 6.67%?

One more tweak to this: the 100 bonds for sale will be per "cycle", not per day. A "cycle" will involve the sale of these bonds, deposit with pirate, and confirmation that he has accepted the coins. Upon acceptance, I can re-list the new bonds for sale. There may be multiple cycles per day depending on availability (all steps are currently manual).

I think I've come to my senses on this one now. What was I thinking?

Bond issuance rules: (please see OP for up to date information on this)

Up to 100 bonds will be issued per day at a pre-determined price. These will be in the form of an ask wall on GLBSE. The price starts at 1.05 BTC immediately after dividend payment, and goes up by 0.01 BTC every day according to the following schedule:


The premium reflects my perceived risk of pirate sending back newly deposited funds, which would then force my coins out of the fund. At the moment, the price is roughly on par with TYGGR.BOND-P. The price and quantity on offer is subject to change. The remaining 400 bonds that I hold may also be listed for sale at any time, but probably at higher prices. Bond sales may be suspended at any time if I expect to be unavailable to transfer funds to pirate quickly enough.

I'm working on a bot to maintain the asks automatically. Until then, the process is manual and the listed times will only be approximate.

That's essentially the model that TYGRR.BOND-P follows: scheduled release of bonds every week at a certain price. If this is preferable for most people than me issuing and selling shares on demand, I can switch to that model. Let me know what you think. I probably cannot issue more than 500 bonds in one go, because I always run the risk of pirate returning the newly deposited coins. For this reason, I even prefer sending smaller amounts at a time, because then I'll know when to stop.

This, however, would essentially mean that I can no longer sell my own shares on the market when I wish. If I do, it just goes back to being the same as what I was already doing. (I could sell now, and then issue more to myself later as part of the weekly issue). Part of the motivation for me to run this asset was so that my deposit with pirate gets additional liquidity as well - that I can "withdraw" when needed by transferring the space to someone else instead of bugging pirate for a real withdrawal.

I believe the only people that are affected by my current method are those that expected to gain from a scarcity in this asset, or those that sniped the IPO and expected to flip the bonds for a profit. My point of view is that people are placing bids at whatever price they value this asset at, and I (or anyone else) would fill them if and when possible. Let's face it: until pirate stops accepting new deposits, this asset isn't really scarce. There are others like it that perform essentially the same function.

OK, I need to stop rambling. Share your thoughts. Convince me why what I'm doing is a bad idea, and I'll gladly correct it.

Perhaps specifying that you, bitfoo, will issue an N-day notice (say, 7 days) before issuing any shares, which includes the number of shares and other details, would satisfy both your needs to issue bonds and others' desire for less uncertainty with regard to bond issues?