Topic: GLBSE owners lied to us. How to move forward and fix this? Move to Exchange X? (Read 7479 times)

You almost seem to be contradicting yourself here.

If I host an OT server it is really my OT server not yours, if I let you know its private key then that is a security hole, because it is I not you who has actual access to the hardware thus you cannot stop me from looking at the private key whereas I can, and thus probably should, prevent you from seeing it.

I am providing OT hosting services: so far the OTdemo server. There is no need to deploy more until people have demonstrated on the OTdemo server that there is sufficient traffic to justify deploying more servers. If there is not even enough traffic for the demo server to pay for itself then obviously deploying more servers would not make any business-sense.

The OTdemo server permits any user to issue their own made-up assets, thus to demostrate that their assets attract traffic enough to justify the resources required to serve their assets.

If you simply get a machine at some third party location and put an OT server on it then there is diffusion of responsibility aka increased numbers of suspects in case of anything "going wrong" since you could find out the server's private key and the people who have physical custody of the machine also could discover the server's private key. So if you are a scammer looking to divert responsibility away from yourself I suppose you would love to make sure you have a whole hosting company's employees to point fingers at while actually having access also yourself thus being able to do something nefarious despite pretending to be using a "secure" server.

Basically a host cannot provide a "secure" server while allowing some third party, especially an asset issuer, access to the server's private key...

...What they would really be doing is providing an inherently insecure server, a server to which they have given some asset-issuer the key to the server.

The separation of responsibility in Open Transactions is an important part of how it all works. The fact that only the custodian of the physical machine running the server software has access to the private key of the server software is a key part of its security. It means everyone knows exactly who to blame. Scammers of course would love to be able to blame them, but it would be stupid of them to enable scammers by permitting scammers to know the private keys of the servers they host. Unless maybe they are scammers, and want to be able to blame you for their nefarious actions...

-MarkM-

You cant trust any exchange, thats the whole point. OT would be good when its easier to setup since you cn run it on your own server. It might be a good idea for someone to offer OT hosting services.

Right.

I called to James today and we had a short chat about what is going on and what is the schedule for resolving this unpleasant happening for good.
In few words, he his clearing up the mess with double payments that happened. When this is sorted out, he will pay the rest of the BTC out and if this is done, he starts to work with issuers and account owners. He also told me he is going to stay as far away as possible from this forum. Not surprised at all.
He also promised to post a official statement in his GLBSE blog and list the his plan. 
 
Memvola ideas are on the right track (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1249735). Third party is needed to hash and verify the hashes of account-security-amount combinations so nobody is going to scream later, that he got less shares than he had.
This is not complicated stuff at all. Getting over the egos, emotions and absurd interpretations of made up laws by arm chair lawyers in tinfoil hats, is.

So, what is the exchange you can trust at the moment and if there is none, are you willing to take the step to the right direction and go for the OT? (install is not hard at all)

Nefario wont even tell the bitcoinglobal shareholders who the lawyer is or provide written proof and we are paying for the lawyer.

Look like GLBSE gand has started to move some coin around.
This is good but the show is not even close to the happy ending.
I am sure that the portfolio values are multiple times grater than coin held in GLBSE accounts.

1) Existing trading platform leads/owners have to step up and talk to issuers
2) Every issuers has to choose one they like (set up a poll, if you can not decide
3) GLBSE and the chosen platform owner has to work together to figure out, how to transfer the data and make sure it's correct too (md5 is helpful, third party to confirm that hashes match)
4) create accounts for shareholders in chosen platform
5) inform the shareholders via same e-mail that was used to start/confirm the coin transfers in GLBSE
6) GLBSE account holders receive a complete transaction history and holdings report. Last one must be signed by GLBSE 

I prefer platform that can exist independently and is not controlled by one person. Power corrupts and money makes people stupid. We have seen that way too many times in BTC community.

Cheers.

I think the last comment is something that should really make you take a step back, look at the big picture and think.
 


 Source http://bitcoinmagazine.net/interview-with-glbses-nefario/

who's posting totally pointless post strictly aiming the poster and not the content?....

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1258823
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1258825
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1258828

Why are you spamming the forums, EskimoBob?

Why do you chose a fake sec. in fake Co? What about crowd funding?

Wouldn't a p2p stock market solve this problem, the issue with GLBSE is excessive counterparty risk? With p2p the relationship could be handled entirely through Bitcoin and/or Namecoin (or an equivalent e.g. Stockcoin) addresses to maintain investor anonymity. Funds themselves coud be made anonymous by storing only address in the name value store.

FYI, for "shares" based asset types, OT actually keeps a list of all the accounts of that asset type. (That's how it is later able to loop through all those accounts and send a dividend cheque to the Nym based on how many shares he owns.)

So it actually wouldn't be hard to provide the account IDs, balances, and owner NymIDs for those shares, to the issuer. We could add a message that requests this data, if the issuers of shares need access to it. Alternately, we could also make it an option inside the shares contract.

It's not so much legally vs illegally, as within regulations vs outside regulations. Doing it within regulations gives you legal protections, such as limited liabilities. Doing it yourself is no different from distributing a bunch of papers with IOU written on this, which is legal, but won't protect you from issues the way going through regulated means will.
As for why? Cheaper, and much easier.

Right, I was under the impression that OT was meant to enable anybody to issue securities. Why would somebody who can already issue securities legally want to use OT?

I do not know of any law preventing anyone legally authorised / registered / licensed to issue securities from doing so using Open Transactions, albeit if they prefer to wait until their auditor's firm adds it to their list of platforms they feel qualified to audit and which they consider robust enough to recommend to their customers it could be a while yet before we see mass adoption of the platform among registered broker/dealers.

Plus, most large established stock-exchanges have legacy custom software in place so adoption there might take a while too. Maybe more likely would be adopting of code snippets, ideas, functions and such into their custom code.

You seem to be confusing the use of a tool with legality of doing the job the tool is used to do. Given that doing the job is legal for you, what laws restrict you from using this tool to do it?

There are already procedures in place for getting licensed, it remains only for people/companies to use them or for those who already have to add bitcoin to their portfolios / repertoires.

Incumbent's advantage strikes again.

(Sorry young pups, I know back in our day we all got grandfathered in with less educational and examination passing requirements but young pups are spawning too fast we'll have to add more regulations to keep you down?)

-MarkM-

After reading this thread I now understand Open Transactions better than before but I have to agree with Puppet. It seems to be illegal to issue securities the way GLBSE did and it also seems to be illegal to issue securities through OT and therefore only a madman would do that. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The user does not directly do any PGP-signing.

If you are using the OT wallet, then it will be signing things behind the scenes, but you will not see this.

The most you will see is, it will occasionally ask for your passphrase so that it can sign something.



You can issue the same currency onto multiple OT servers.

But each instrument must be redeemed on the same server where it was issued.

You can also move funds between servers (by going through any entity who has accounts on both servers, such as the issuer.)

There is also a plan to use multisig for placing BTC in voting pools (on the blockchain itself) so that individual servers cannot steal the coins that have been bailed onto them. (Nor could hackers...)



It is not possible for an OT server to rob you.

After every transaction, the most recent receipt is left on your machine.

This receipt proves your current balance, as well as which instruments are valid, and which transactions are closed. It proves everything.

The server cannot change anything on this receipt (or the next...), because the server cannot forge your signature on the original request. (A copy of your original signed request appears on the server-signed receipt.)

This means that "your account" is on your machine. So even if the server later disappears, you can still prove the balance on your account, and prove which instruments are still valid.



Open-Transactions is able to act as a market exchange (similar to MtGox or GLBSE.)

However OT does a lot more than that. You can make your own custom-scripted smart contracts, and it will execute the terms of your scripted agreements, dropping receipts periodically into your inbox.

OT also does untraceable cash.

OT also does client-side scripting, with the full OT API available inside the scripts.

OT is also able to prove everything it needs to prove, without storing any account history (as long as you store the last signed receipt...)

OT also supports a wide range of financial instruments. Not only can you issue currencies/shares and trade them, but you can also open accounts, write cheques, withdraw cash, use cashier's cheques (aka banker's cheques), send account transfers, etc.


Probably. OT is able to act as a market exchange, if that's what you mean. But it is only the core: the library, the receipts, the instruments, the keys, etc.

Meaning if you have a website in mind, you still have to build the website part. OT just processes all the finance and legal.


===> The actual compiling / linking of the project is not something that actual users will have to deal with (only developers.)

===> Installing the software (and various libraries) on your machine is also not something that actual users will have to deal with (there will be an install script that will automate this for users.)

===> There is not an actual GUI client yet. We do have a test GUI, as well as a command-line utility (opentxs) but I assume that some real client will be written before there are real users. In fact my company Monetas has already started raising our seed round, and we intend to produce a real client over the next year or so.

===> If you copy over the sample data when you first install OT, then you will see that you are able to run the OT server and the test GUI without having to set up any contracts or Nyms at all. You can just start playing with it.

===> If you start up the OT server with no data, it will walk you through the process of creating the necessary Nyms and contracts to get it up and running from scratch.

===> If you start up the OT client with no data (such as the test GUI) then it will automatically create its own blank data folder. From there you can create your first Nym yourself (on the Nyms tab) and import any server contracts or asset contracts that you wish to use, into your wallet. (On the contracts tab.) From there you can go to the Main tab and create accounts (in those asset types, on those servers.)

===> A real GUI would lead you through that initial setup process (including the password image) using a Wizard. The test GUI, obviously, does not.

and that is called a commodity....

Those are from the consumer us laws. I don't care about individulal payment method Toer, those are merely contracts that have to abide to your country of origins law.

BFL knows about it too. I emailed them requesting a refund on the basis that if they refuse it would open the door to legal actions, it took less than 24hours to get a refund (although they state it is non-refundable until 2013).

How legit is that?

And no link, I really don't feel the need to prove something I know, makes me less credible sure, but not any less right. There is actually a thread on these forums linking most of them anyways.

I was talking to someone who know about the laws around here (not US) and guess what: Setting up a bazaar (market) to trade some virtual  tokens (BTC is not a currency) is completely OK until legal currency is kept out of the equation.
You say BTC has value in fiat? So do all the stupid game cards that kids collect and trade in some countries. They do not call their collections Co's and themselves CEO and are not selling you a "share of ownership or debt (big bad words) in a INC, LLE, LTD etc". 
American based SEC has NOTHING to do with BTC. BTC is not a security. Only reason they can get upset is if  you keep calling your imaginary "what ever" a real company an keep telling to people,  how you are running a business blaa blaa blaa, dividends, IPO etc.  Then it can be considered as a scam and they (SEC, IRS, FSA, police etc) will get curious.
If you sell tokens for a imaginary team that operates under guidelines X and rewards it's members in those same game tokens (btc) no one cares wtf you do. Start using big words and you are in deep shit. As simple as that.

So. Nefario. Use some SQL magic, rename those moronic contracts to what they really are and open up your token bazaar.
You are running a online shop for trading game tokens to "teams" of imaginary teams of miners and cosmonauts.