Topic: GLBSE owners lied to us. How to move forward and fix this? Move to Exchange X? - page 3. (Read 7479 times)
October 06, 2012, 02:36:41 PM
I like the idea of an Open Exchange. Does that software exists already? If yes, where I can look for more info and downloads?
October 06, 2012, 01:39:29 PM
Ya'll are just setting yourselves up for more future drama.
October 06, 2012, 01:29:44 PM
October 06, 2012, 12:50:04 PM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115742.0;topicseen
I think that, with maybe Open Transactions over it, would be the best option.
October 06, 2012, 12:31:14 PM
like Butterfly Labs does.
Sweet.
Yeah I want to use Open-Transactions for my asset (RSM) if I can figure out how to and its not too difficult for shareholders.
I don't know exactly Open Transactions, but if it requires something like signing documents with PGP, then it is both
1) quite scary the first time you see it
2) easy, after you spend 5 minutes figuring it out with a good howto.
Maybe, having money to recover is just what it takes to push people to make that little mental effort, and move in the realm of serious security at once; so, a great opportunity
This.
October 06, 2012, 05:48:13 AM
Bonds sticks etc are worthless without the issuer so all the decentralisation they need is for each issuer to have their own server or site or email address or whatever by means of which their thing is traded.
There is no need to rope into it every frikkin bitcoin blockchain in the damn world since if the issuer vanishes the stuff is worthless anyway so cluttering up everyone's blockchain with each-and-every fly by night asset is just nasty. Let the issuer run something themself on their own VPS or server or PC or whatever to handle their own scam themselves, don't make every hoster of the blockchain an accessory to securities fraud.
Basically with a blockchain you are implicating hundreds or thousands or more "middle men", instead you should eliminate the "middle men" by dealing directly with the issuer not some intermediary such as an exchange site controlled by someone other than the issuer or a blockchain hosted by thousands of accessories/co-conspirators.
-MarkM-
There is no need to rope into it every frikkin bitcoin blockchain in the damn world since if the issuer vanishes the stuff is worthless anyway so cluttering up everyone's blockchain with each-and-every fly by night asset is just nasty. Let the issuer run something themself on their own VPS or server or PC or whatever to handle their own scam themselves, don't make every hoster of the blockchain an accessory to securities fraud.
Basically with a blockchain you are implicating hundreds or thousands or more "middle men", instead you should eliminate the "middle men" by dealing directly with the issuer not some intermediary such as an exchange site controlled by someone other than the issuer or a blockchain hosted by thousands of accessories/co-conspirators.
-MarkM-
October 06, 2012, 05:43:41 AM
Hey, the smart ones of us (not me, I am only small dumb investor) are actually getting rid of the "middle man" in sending the money business and developing the true revolutionary system called Bitcoin. Why the hell we are stucked on the old flawed mechanisms when we want make stock exchange? Centralisation is flawed in our current world, everyone of you know it, it is one of the reason why Bitcoin has value (at least for me).
I have seen many threads talking about decentralised bonds. Why don't move skills to developing and implementing it? What about decentralised system in the fashion of Bitcoin which will be the underlying mechanism of issuing, trading and owning bonds? Then there could be some frontends for managing it (like in Bitcoin are wallets - local apps or hosted/hybrid apps).
I have seen many threads talking about decentralised bonds. Why don't move skills to developing and implementing it? What about decentralised system in the fashion of Bitcoin which will be the underlying mechanism of issuing, trading and owning bonds? Then there could be some frontends for managing it (like in Bitcoin are wallets - local apps or hosted/hybrid apps).
October 06, 2012, 05:41:15 AM
I'd be willing if other (asset issuers) users were interested in using OT with chipping into a fund to pay for a VPS to host the server.
How would you choose what assets to allow and which would simply attract too much destructive attention and so on?
You might be best off running a server purely for your own assets and no one else's, otherwise you are likely to be taking on all their legal problems in addition to any your own offering might turn out to be subject to.
You should first get yourself set up with an Open Transactions client and get familiar with how it all works from a normal user's point of view. That will give you a better idea of how it all works.
-MarkM-
October 06, 2012, 05:19:40 AM
I'd be willing if other (asset issuers) users were interested in using OT with chipping into a fund to pay for a VPS to host the server.
October 06, 2012, 05:15:58 AM
Yeah I want to use Open-Transactions for my asset (RSM) if I can figure out how to and its not too difficult for shareholders.
Things can be made as easy for shareholders as their friendly neighborhood broker cares to make it.
Really the only way to make it easy for them is to make it even easier for hackers/thieves, since you know any security is going to be considered inconvenient and "too hard" and so on. Heck a lot of people complain at simple use of PGP signed messages "too hard" yet it is pretty much the bare minimum needed to prove their identity in a portable manner.
-MarkM-
I don't mind getting the elbow grease out to learn something new. My only concern is the difficulty would minimize new investment.
What does a user need to start using open transaction?
A user just needs either a client or to be accustomed to using command-lines and scripts.
An issuer would in addition need the ability to actually issue an asset on a server, which might require them to run their own server depending on what kinds of liability a "software as a service" vendor could be open to by allowing someone else to issue an asset on a server that they host.
I have been thinking of setting up a "test server" or "demo server" on which anyone can issue assets just so people can try out the system and get used to it and so on, but as no one has put up money to pay for a lawyer to check with about "safe harbour" laws relating to "being just a common carrier who does not examine the details of what data people use the software to process" I do not know yet if that would be free of liability.
(I am hoping it might be like the copyright acts: if we get informed one of the demo/pretend/game/test items on the server is some kind of illegal unregistered security we de-list it on receipt of a court order to do so kind of thing.)
But for a mere user, all you need is the client (if you insist on a GUI) or just the basic Open Transactions system (so you can interact through scripts / command-line).
-MarkM-
Please do I'm very interested in OT and if a I2p and/or Tor clone of the GLBSE doesn't pop up then it's my only option for RSM long term.
I don't know exactly Open Transactions, but if it requires something like signing documents with PGP, then it is both
1) quite scary the first time you see it
2) easy, after you spend 5 minutes figuring it out with a good howto.
Maybe, having money to recover is just what it takes to push people to make that little mental effort, and move in the realm of serious security at once; so, a great opportunity
1) quite scary the first time you see it
2) easy, after you spend 5 minutes figuring it out with a good howto.
Maybe, having money to recover is just what it takes to push people to make that little mental effort, and move in the realm of serious security at once; so, a great opportunity
It requires running Open Transactions, optionally with a GUI client to provide a GUI interface for you.
It signs similar in concept to PGP / GPG but actually it uses OpenSSL libraries to do it, and it does it itself instead of making you go to an external application outside of OT itself to do your signing.
Basically it communicates via a similar to PGP type of encrypted-to-a-specific-recipient system so it also provides its own secure communication line to and from the server.
-MarkM-
If you could right an idiots guide for your demo server that'd be great.
October 06, 2012, 05:07:13 AM
I don't know exactly Open Transactions, but if it requires something like signing documents with PGP, then it is both
1) quite scary the first time you see it
2) easy, after you spend 5 minutes figuring it out with a good howto.
Maybe, having money to recover is just what it takes to push people to make that little mental effort, and move in the realm of serious security at once; so, a great opportunity
1) quite scary the first time you see it
2) easy, after you spend 5 minutes figuring it out with a good howto.
Maybe, having money to recover is just what it takes to push people to make that little mental effort, and move in the realm of serious security at once; so, a great opportunity
It requires running Open Transactions, optionally with a GUI client to provide a GUI interface for you.
It signs similar in concept to PGP / GPG but actually it uses OpenSSL libraries to do it, and it does it itself instead of making you go to an external application outside of OT itself to do your signing.
Basically it communicates via a similar to PGP type of encrypted-to-a-specific-recipient system so it also provides its own secure communication line to and from the server.
-MarkM-
October 06, 2012, 05:03:57 AM
Ok when it is possible to issue on several servers is there a way to synchronize this ?
Not sure what you mean.
If you want to issue 100 shares on one server and 200 on another and 300 on yet another that is purely up to you as issuer.
The current GUI client would let you see all three issuer accounts on your list of accounts, and on clicking on any of them you'd see which server that account is on and which nym you used to create that account. So in that sense your client provides some "synchronisation" for you.
It is merely a "test GUI" client for your programmers to look at to see how each function is coded, they can surely make much more specialised functionality for you once they see how the code works and you explain what exactly more you would like them to code into it.
A specially for issuers client might well have very different setup than one for grandmothers to use...
-MarkM-
October 06, 2012, 05:03:42 AM
Yeah I want to use Open-Transactions for my asset (RSM) if I can figure out how to and its not too difficult for shareholders.
I don't know exactly Open Transactions, but if it requires something like signing documents with PGP, then it is both
1) quite scary the first time you see it
2) easy, after you spend 5 minutes figuring it out with a good howto.
Maybe, having money to recover is just what it takes to push people to make that little mental effort, and move in the realm of serious security at once; so, a great opportunity
October 06, 2012, 04:59:17 AM
Quote
Blockchains are insanely expensive, the coloured bitcoins type idea sound like a lot of fun but I am not really looking forward to having the bitcoin blockchain swarmed with billions upon billions of scams, there will be more scams than there are bitcoins and thus massively increased reason for regulators to want to outlaw the blockchain. They might even have good grounds for asserting that anyone hosting a copy of the blockchain is aiding and abetting securities fraud.
Ok when it is possible to issue on several servers is there a way to synchronize this ?
October 06, 2012, 04:53:41 AM
markm is there a way to program OTS in a way that the "notary" part would be commonly shared similar to a blockchain. Basicaly i wanna know if OTS is capable to run decentralized.
Securities are inherently centralised.
However an issuer can issue on as many servers as will let them do so.
Blockchains are insanely expensive, the coloured bitcoins type idea sound like a lot of fun but I am not really looking forward to having the bitcoin blockchain swarmed with billions upon billions of scams, there will be more scams than there are bitcoins and thus massively increased reason for regulators to want to outlaw the blockchain. They might even have good grounds for asserting that anyone hosting a copy of the blockchain is aiding and abetting securities fraud. (That might bring us back to the safe harbour / common carrier arguments though...)
-MarkM-
October 06, 2012, 04:52:32 AM
What does a user need to start using open transaction?
A user just needs either a client or to be accustomed to using command-lines and scripts.
An issuer would in addition need the ability to actually issue an asset on a server, which might require them to run their own server depending on what kinds of liability a "software as a service" vendor could be open to by allowing someone else to issue an asset on a server that they host.
I have been thinking of setting up a "test server" or "demo server" on which anyone can issue assets just so people can try out the system and get used to it and so on, but as no one has put up money to pay for a lawyer to check with about "safe harbour" laws relating to "being just a common carrier who does not examine the details of what data people use the software to process" I do not know yet if that would be free of liability.
(I am hoping it might be like the copyright acts: if we get informed one of the demo/pretend/game/test items on the server is some kind of illegal unregistered security we de-list it on receipt of a court order to do so kind of thing.)
But for a mere user, all you need is the client (if you insist on a GUI) or just the basic Open Transactions system (so you can interact through scripts / command-line).
-MarkM-
October 06, 2012, 04:46:28 AM
markm is there a way to program OTS in a way that the "notary" part would be commonly shared similar to a blockchain. Basicaly i wanna know if OTS is capable to run decentralized.
October 06, 2012, 04:45:18 AM
From the sound of it the only "proof" of ownership is the crypto-signed receipts GLBSE issued to users when they bought things, or if, as seems possible, no such receipts were issued, a crypto-signed statement sent out by Nefario to each user detailing what they owned, which would require co-operation of Nefario.
(See yet why crypto-signed receipts are so important?)
-MarkM-
(See yet why crypto-signed receipts are so important?)
-MarkM-
What does a user need to start using open transaction?
October 06, 2012, 04:42:43 AM
glbse should be closed to deposits and withdrawals except if you AMl to allow graceful exit.
October 06, 2012, 04:39:40 AM
From the sound of it the only "proof" of ownership is the crypto-signed receipts GLBSE issued to users when they bought things, or if, as seems possible, no such receipts were issued, a crypto-signed statement sent out by Nefario to each user detailing what they owned, which would require co-operation of Nefario.
(See yet why crypto-signed receipts are so important?)
-MarkM-
(See yet why crypto-signed receipts are so important?)
-MarkM-
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