Author

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1025. (Read 2032266 times)

legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1002
August 17, 2014, 02:01:22 PM
it has to do with the fact that regardless of your opinion on whether it can achieve consensus
I issued no opinion whatsoever about whether or not PoS can achieve consensus.

sorry.. thought you were the other guy that posted.. my bad..
I did post a link to a proof that PoS can not achieve distributed consensus, which has an entirely different set of constraints than achieving any kind consensus.

so you suggest that nxt and other pos systems are not distributed? and instead centralised?
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
August 17, 2014, 01:58:05 PM
it has to do with the fact that regardless of your opinion on whether it can achieve consensus
I issued no opinion whatsoever about whether or not PoS can achieve consensus.

sorry.. thought you were the other guy that posted.. my bad..
I did post a link to a proof that PoS can not achieve distributed consensus, which has an entirely different set of constraints than achieving any kind consensus.
legendary
Activity: 817
Merit: 1000
August 17, 2014, 01:56:21 PM

Nxt did not fork and bter has gotten most of the nxt back. I am now more bullish then ever! With the release of the instantdex around the corner (near instant trading on the asset exchange and decentralized crypto to crypto, nxt is preparing to be a force to be reckoned with.

I was quite impressed with nxt.  The developers released a version of the client that would reverse the stolen transaction only but the forgers did not accept the change.  This demonstrates the power of distributed consensus and hopefully the world takes notice.  Obvious threat to central banks is obvious.  Maybe POS has merit after all.  

The rollback discussion did the opposite to me.  It proved the PoS achieves consensus by popular opinion rather than by objective truth.  With PoW, you must expend resources to "vote" on your chain, so you pick the single best chain based on a mathematically-defined selection criteria (mining two competing chains would be a waste).  Each new block added to the chain decreases the chance of a re-org exponentially, and all the participants realize this, so deep re-orgs are out of the question.  

With PoS, there is no tether to the physical world.  Since there are no resources spent to "vote," stakers can vote on many different chains for very little cost.  Even today, it would be possible to roll back the 50M NXT theft as it costs nothing to change their blockchain.  PoS gives the economic majority the power to rewrite history.  Truth is defined by opinion.

There's a reason the first sentence of 1984 was used as the passphrase for the Nxt Genesis Account.  



I think what people are missing is that nxt is not actually a currency. It is a platform that contains a token that is required to use the different features the platform provides. Of course those tokens have value and therefore can be used as a currency but it is not the primary use. Bitcoins primary use is as a currency, which it does well. Nxt provides and asset exchange, a decentralized coin to coin exchange, a digital goods store and many other types of tools that are just not something that bitcoin is for, as a currency first.

I like to think that nxt is a platform built on top of bitcoin. Not in the same sense that http was built on top of tcp but they are connected. Without bitcoin nxt would not have been possible. Bitcoin is layer 1, it provides that connection to the real world as you said.  Then nxt was made possible and it still only possible to get to it through bitcoin. Hence nxt is connected to the real world through bitcoin, which is the gold standard of crypto. Nxt provides extra features on top of bitcoin that bitcoin cannot provide for itself. They are very much intertwined and will feed off of each other's strengths. They are not competitors. Crypto is a brand new thing and perhaps that means that the concept of something being built on top of something is also in a brand new paradigm.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1002
August 17, 2014, 01:56:10 PM
it has to do with the fact that regardless of your opinion on whether it can achieve consensus
I issued no opinion whatsoever about whether or not PoS can achieve consensus.

sorry.. thought you were the other guy that posted.. my bad..

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8402251
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
August 17, 2014, 01:55:06 PM
it has to do with the fact that regardless of your opinion on whether it can achieve consensus
I issued no opinion whatsoever about whether or not PoS can achieve consensus.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1002
August 17, 2014, 01:45:31 PM
nxt and proof of stake is alive and well, growing fast
So is the Federal Reserve's balance sheet.

WTF does that have to do with whether or not PoS is capable of achieving distributed consensus?

it has to do with the fact that regardless of your opinion on whether it can achieve consensus, it is still going full steam ahead, building new technology that PoW systems could only dream of.

show me a paper with mathematical proof that what you claim is the truth. with all the smart arses going around claiming such untrusths that one of the smarter arses would have written up a mathmatical paper to prove this hypothesis.. but no...
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
August 17, 2014, 01:41:44 PM
To rollback the chain they are first going to have to own alot of coins and be big investors in their total numbers and consensus.     Large amounts of capital invested in a product is just a traditional source of power in a normal capitalist system.   Right now in fiat we have democracy and corruption of capital by politics but a plain old currency system should revolve around respect for those with most to lose from its demise.   Is POS flawed by allowing that Im not sure, the people who use and hold nxt decided it would be a negative, last I read

Quote
How long until Belgium owns the US? The they can start auctioning off cities. New York people. Any takers?
As soon as the bonds give any rights they can do that.   All they got is a promise.    They can shut down the government deficit maybe, force raise interest rates and cause alot of fuss but who wants to spend billions making enemies with no profit.  
I'd buy some gold with those bonds asap, likely its a proxy for elements of the EU

A USTbond <=> BTC exchange could open the floodgates ... i.e. repo  market settled in bitcoin.
STT
legendary
Activity: 4102
Merit: 1454
August 17, 2014, 01:34:21 PM
To rollback the chain they are first going to have to own alot of coins and be big investors in their total numbers and consensus.     Large amounts of capital invested in a product is just a traditional source of power in a normal capitalist system.   Right now in fiat we have democracy and corruption of capital by politics but a plain old currency system should revolve around respect for those with most to lose from its demise.   Is POS flawed by allowing that Im not sure, the people who use and hold nxt decided it would be a negative, last I read

Quote
How long until Belgium owns the US? The they can start auctioning off cities. New York people. Any takers?
As soon as the bonds give any rights they can do that.   All they got is a promise.    They can shut down the government deficit maybe, force raise interest rates and cause alot of fuss but who wants to spend billions making enemies with no profit.  
I'd buy some gold with those bonds asap, likely its a proxy for elements of the EU
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
August 17, 2014, 01:34:19 PM
nxt and proof of stake is alive and well, growing fast
So is the Federal Reserve's balance sheet.

WTF does that have to do with whether or not PoS is capable of achieving distributed consensus?
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1002
August 17, 2014, 01:25:50 PM
The rollback discussion did the opposite to me.  It proved the PoS achieves consensus by popular opinion rather than by objective truth.  With PoW, you must expend resources to "vote" on your chain, so you pick the single best chain based on a mathematically-defined selection criteria (mining two competing chains would be a waste).  Each new block added to the chain decreases the chance of a re-org exponentially, and all the participants realize this, so deep re-orgs are out of the question.  

With PoS, there is no tether to the physical world.  Since there are no resources spent to "vote," stakers can vote on many different chains for very little cost.  Even today, it would be possible to roll back the 50M NXT theft as it costs nothing to change their blockchain.  PoS gives the economic majority the power to rewrite history.  Truth is defined by opinion.

There's a reason the first sentence of 1984 was used as the passphrase for the Nxt Genesis Account.
https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf

all the while nxt and proof of stake is alive and well, growing fast and stealing ethereums customers(1) while they cant decide what consensus mechanism to use Roll Eyes

(1): last block of text under "nxt gold"

legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
August 17, 2014, 01:12:19 PM
The rollback discussion did the opposite to me.  It proved the PoS achieves consensus by popular opinion rather than by objective truth.  With PoW, you must expend resources to "vote" on your chain, so you pick the single best chain based on a mathematically-defined selection criteria (mining two competing chains would be a waste).  Each new block added to the chain decreases the chance of a re-org exponentially, and all the participants realize this, so deep re-orgs are out of the question. 

With PoS, there is no tether to the physical world.  Since there are no resources spent to "vote," stakers can vote on many different chains for very little cost.  Even today, it would be possible to roll back the 50M NXT theft as it costs nothing to change their blockchain.  PoS gives the economic majority the power to rewrite history.  Truth is defined by opinion.

There's a reason the first sentence of 1984 was used as the passphrase for the Nxt Genesis Account.
https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
August 17, 2014, 01:08:41 PM

Nxt did not fork and bter has gotten most of the nxt back. I am now more bullish then ever! With the release of the instantdex around the corner (near instant trading on the asset exchange and decentralized crypto to crypto, nxt is preparing to be a force to be reckoned with.

I was quite impressed with nxt.  The developers released a version of the client that would reverse the stolen transaction only but the forgers did not accept the change.  This demonstrates the power of distributed consensus and hopefully the world takes notice.  Obvious threat to central banks is obvious.  Maybe POS has merit after all. 

The rollback discussion did the opposite to me.  It proved the PoS achieves consensus by popular opinion rather than by objective truth.  With PoW, you must expend resources to "vote" on your chain, so you pick the single best chain based on a mathematically-defined selection criteria (mining two competing chains would be a waste).  Each new block added to the chain decreases the chance of a re-org exponentially, and all the participants realize this, so deep re-orgs are out of the question. 

With PoS, there is no tether to the physical world.  Since there are no resources spent to "vote," stakers can vote on many different chains for very little cost.  Even today, it would be possible to roll back the 50M NXT theft as it costs nothing to change their blockchain.  PoS gives the economic majority the power to rewrite history.  Truth is defined by opinion.

There's a reason the first sentence of 1984 was used as the passphrase for the Nxt Genesis Account. 

legendary
Activity: 817
Merit: 1000
August 17, 2014, 12:16:06 PM

Nxt did not fork and bter has gotten most of the nxt back. I am now more bullish then ever! With the release of the instantdex around the corner (near instant trading on the asset exchange and decentralized crypto to crypto, nxt is preparing to be a force to be reckoned with.

I was quite impressed with nxt.  The developers released a version of the client that would reverse the stolen transaction only but the forgers did not accept the change.  This demonstrates the power of distributed consensus and hopefully the world takes notice.  Obvious threat to central banks is obvious.  Maybe POS has merit after all. 

Looks like Vitalik and Ethereum agree with you: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6990
hero member
Activity: 622
Merit: 500
August 17, 2014, 10:18:05 AM

Nxt did not fork and bter has gotten most of the nxt back. I am now more bullish then ever! With the release of the instantdex around the corner (near instant trading on the asset exchange and decentralized crypto to crypto, nxt is preparing to be a force to be reckoned with.

I was quite impressed with nxt.  The developers released a version of the client that would reverse the stolen transaction only but the forgers did not accept the change.  This demonstrates the power of distributed consensus and hopefully the world takes notice.  Obvious threat to central banks is obvious.  Maybe POS has merit after all. 
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 17, 2014, 09:41:19 AM
Meanwhile, holdings in Belgium climbed $1.7 billion last month to $364.1 billion, the report showed.

Code words:  US. gubmint

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-15/u-s-investment-outflow-reaches-record-as-china-sells-treasuries.html

How long until Belgium owns the US? The they can start auctioning off cities. New York people. Any takers? Wink

Hopefully they'll auction off Ben Lawsky first.

Are you interested in acquiring him?

He's already been acquired; by the banks.
legendary
Activity: 817
Merit: 1000
August 17, 2014, 09:40:26 AM

Nxt did not fork and bter has gotten most of the nxt back. I am now more bullish then ever! With the release of the instantdex around the corner (near instant trading on the asset exchange and decentralized crypto to crypto, nxt is preparing to be a force to be reckoned with.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
August 17, 2014, 09:19:02 AM
Meanwhile, holdings in Belgium climbed $1.7 billion last month to $364.1 billion, the report showed.

Code words:  US. gubmint

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-15/u-s-investment-outflow-reaches-record-as-china-sells-treasuries.html

How long until Belgium owns the US? The they can start auctioning off cities. New York people. Any takers? Wink

Hopefully they'll auction off Ben Lawsky first.

Are you interested in acquiring him?
sr. member
Activity: 371
Merit: 250
August 17, 2014, 09:17:09 AM
Meanwhile, holdings in Belgium climbed $1.7 billion last month to $364.1 billion, the report showed.

Code words:  US. gubmint

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-15/u-s-investment-outflow-reaches-record-as-china-sells-treasuries.html

How long until Belgium owns the US? The they can start auctioning off cities. New York people. Any takers? Wink

Hopefully they'll auction off Ben Lawsky first.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
August 17, 2014, 08:00:24 AM
Meanwhile, holdings in Belgium climbed $1.7 billion last month to $364.1 billion, the report showed.

Code words:  US. gubmint

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-15/u-s-investment-outflow-reaches-record-as-china-sells-treasuries.html

How long until Belgium owns the US? The they can start auctioning off cities. New York people. Any takers? Wink
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 17, 2014, 07:59:23 AM
Meanwhile, holdings in Belgium climbed $1.7 billion last month to $364.1 billion, the report showed.

Code words:  US. gubmint

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-15/u-s-investment-outflow-reaches-record-as-china-sells-treasuries.html
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