Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1161. (Read 2032266 times)

meanwhile, the stock market volatility is spiking.

where they gonna flee?

Not in my case.

I've been one of the more vocal on this board about the importance of hanging on to a hoard of PMs, but Bitcoin will always have 'the last laugh'.  This because I sold enough BTC to equal a fair fraction of my gold holdings and used the fiat immediately for property and other real-world goodies that I enjoy (and pay my taxes to boot.)  Thus, no matter what happens to Bitcoin from here forward it will always have been a vastly more financially powerful instrument than PM's...absent a complete mad-max event resulting in the loss of my property at least.

I continue to hold a significant hoard of Bitcoin, and at this point I feel that it is more likely than ever to pay off more handsomely than PM's ever will.  The caveat is that from day one I never really expected Bitcoin to survive and produce the payout that I required of it.  I hoped for it of course (else I would not have taken the risk), but always considered it low probability.

Gold UP, bitcoin tanking like a bitch.

As always throughout history, gold has the last laugh.

As promised, I've posted a "Request for Comments" of æthereum in the alt-coin section:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/rfc-aethereum-a-turing-complete-coin-distributed-as-per-bitcoins-blockchain-563925

And I've posted a description of the bitcoin-blockchain-based coin distribution bootstrapping scheme to Bitcoin Discussion:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/spin-offs-bootstrap-an-altcoin-with-a-btc-blockchain-based-initial-distribution-563972

We can migrate discussion related to these topics to these two new threads. 

Also, the top-heavy distribution of wealth works against such a plan, less than 50% of people own alot less than 50% of money in the incumbent system. Still, it suggests there are more ways to plan against new monetary systems than the more direct attacks we have seen. But if a new monetary system is developed that represents a genuine paradigm advance, then these things will, by definition, be countered in that successful design.

The devs of the new coin could use the bitcoin blockchain as you describe but give themselves half of the unmoved 2009 coins (satoshi coins).  Additionally, adding a limit-in-the-blockchain for the spending of these coins to no more than 10% of them per year would show that the devs are in it for the long haul, not making a scam coin.  This would perhaps fairly compensate the new devs for their effort, while still acknowledging SN's original contribution.  But I believe it also reasonably reduces SN's stake in the new coin -- commensurate with his lack of ongoing contribution to the digital currency space.   By using some fraction of the existing count of early coins it kind of simulates the first-mover mining advantage that the new coin devs should have received.  This allows the new coin to use the strongest POW network (SHA-256 ASICs) but still give the devs "early" coin.

Bitshares tried to do same thing but with protoshares... You can fork that one and do the same.. its a great idea and one that the merged mined coins hoped woukd happen one day.. The merged mine coins will be the only ones standing and out of those the ones that provide some kind of inherent utility that bitcoin doesnt have by design.

Anyone doing any sort of IPO or imaginary distribution schemes will be seen as scams because the well known distribution scheme would be to use bitcoin snapshots... Such a simple idea that is easy to do and puts all alt coins on an equal platform.. Letting Darwin do its thing.

next stop, Mastercoin.  then Bitshares.

b/c a corp backed Bitcoin clone would not give them the means to benefit from inflation like they currently do, nevermind the lack of current stake in the blockchain.

Hmmm. How could we stop a corporate-backed alt usurping bitcoin in the same way? While bitcoin is used by less than 50% of the world's population, the majority might prefer to align with the clonecoin, so that they get to keep their old wealth. I can see that it would be difficult to prove that the balances are fairly apportioned, as accounts are not public information, and also that the rich and influential could easily see this as a power grab opportunity. That could still pose a real dilemma in a situation where bitcoin and bitcoin-clone seem certain to become dominant as currency in a short period of time.

Awesome.  I think we realized something important today. 

I think this is a fantastic proposal and would even be willing to help with the development effort. I look forward to future threads on this topic and will jump in as time allows.

The proof-of-concept Ethereum code is already available.  And æthereum will intentionally be released after Ethereum. Why buy ether when you will be awarded æther a month or so later for free?

I don't think an alt-coin can fight against my proposed defence.  If you never release source code, it's difficult to establish trust and credibility.  If you do release source code, you open yourself up to being eaten by the bitcoin blockchain.  Besides, it is difficult to keep secrets and there will always defectors.  Information wants to be spread.  

My premise is that any alt coin will enjoy greater success if you freely distribute coins as per the unspent outputs in the bitcoin blockchain, when compared to any other distribution method.  If this premise is true, then any promising alt coin can be made more promising by re-releasing it using bitcoin's unspent outputs to determine initial ownership of coins.  

This would be a good thing for the community including innovative alt coin developers I believe.

Hey, Cyperdoc brought it up LOL.  This is moving to Alt-coins and Bitcoin Discussion tomorrow, as per above. 

The NXT guys effectively prevented clone-takeover by releasing binaries first and only older versions of source-code. What is æthereum going to do to prevent such counter-attack?

I actually think the most important aspect that brings value to a coin is its users. Of course also the developers and the code, but the usage of the coin is what makes it valuable.

Is there some other thread where this inane prattling about altcoins can go to?  This thread is for inane prattling about gold and bitcoin. 

I agree we should move forward with the æthereum project.  It will not be very much work, and it could have a positive effect on the community's perception of alt-coins: alt-coins are for experimenting with new concepts that are too risky to implement in bitcoin.  To achieve community support they should use a distribution equal to the unspent outputs near the time of launch.  Developers and believers can purchase additional coins for a low price after launch (as many people will be dumping these "free" coins).  

Here's my plan:

1.  Tomorrow evening I will post a RFC (request for comment) in the alt-coin section describing the idea behind  æthereum.  It will be essentially this: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6133219 so please let me know if you think anything should be added or changed.  

2.  I will also write a post in Bitcoin Discussion about the general concept behind using the unspent outputs in bitcoin's blockchain as a distribution mechanism for alt-coins in general, and link to the æthereum RFC.  I will discuss how this places emphasis on experimentation as opposed to getting rich quick.  I will cite Daniels paper, the idea that the bitcoin blockchain represents an efficient coin distribution due to its many crashes and rallies, and I will describe the importance of a strong user base in the success of a cryptocurrency.  

3.  A few days later, a Reddit user may submit a link to the æthereum idea, and it will get upvoted enough to make it to the first page of r/bitcoin.  I think it will be generally well-received, as the idea that bitcoin holders can piggyback on new but risky innovations like this will be a welcome change.  However, many people will doubt that æthereum is actually serious.  But this is what we want…

4.  About a week or two later, the æthereum website should launch.  This sounds like a lot of work, but it can be extremely simple I think.  Basically, it can just co-opt the Ethereum website design, and the only information it needs to contain is the information in the RFC (updated with the best ideas from the community).  This will get more attention and discussion here and on Reddit.  By this time it will seem like a credible threat and people will question whether they should pay real bitcoin for ether when they can get æther for free.  

5.  After this, it is just a matter of modifying the Ethereum code slightly to allow people to claim their æther by signing an æther public key (or whatever the Ethereum equivalent is) with their bitcoin private key.  This part will likely be the most work, but we may have lots of help by then    

As a side-effect, some people will probably start pulling their bitcoins out of exchanges to make sure that their share is recognized by æthereum, which might expose some fractional reserves.

edit: wording