Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1165. (Read 2032266 times)

This would have to be a country with natural reserves or a productive population, a new sea seastead or African state wouldn't be able to maintain the balance of payments. (Not being naturally rich in Bitcoin)

I understand the BIS members align interest with swap agreements between central banks, to hedge cooperation and cohesion, there are just a handful of CB's of countries with resources out of there control. So my interpretation would be it is impossible to break free from the global monetary policy without giving favour to other CB's and writing of money owed to your CB. The only viable options are those fiew banks not controlled through the BIS.

The trouble is that Bitcoin only works for most people when they guess right and entrust it to someone who doesn't happen to be a crook.  When they try to secure their ownership themselves it often turns into an unmitigated disaster.  The problem is more associated with computer (and device) security than it is with Bitcoin itself, but it's not probably going to get any better as time goes by.  Probably it will get worse in fact.  That has been the distinct trend over the past 30 years that I've been dicking around with computers and it's accelerated sharply since the global internet became widely available.

Physical PMs, by contrast, are stone-ax simple and a very dim person can reliably store their own wealth with pretty close to zero reliance on technology which they don't understand or on counter-parties who almost always fail eventually.  Even in a non MadMax environment this is a pretty significant advantage.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.  

My thinking is highly-aligned with your own, only differing on the equilibrium value for gold (I still think gold will be subordinate to the dominate cryptocurrency).  

Like you alluded to, in a reserve-currency-crisis scenario gold is too slow to facilitate global trade if it physically moves, and gold requires too much trust to facilitate global trade if it doesn't.  Bitcoin permits the collapse of fiat currencies without a corresponding collapse of the major cities of the world (due to a breakdown of global trade due to the lack of sound money).  I think this is very interesting. 

i do think gold's future is bleak.

not to 0 mind you, but maybe mid 500's.  it could go lower temporarily.  but most of it's future value will be for industrial and ornamental purposes.  having owned the stuff in years past, it was just ridiculous to hold/store and wouldn't function well even in an Armageddon scenario.  Bitcoin is so much easier and functional.  i don't even think we're heading for that Armageddon; Bitcoin has the potential to propel society to greater levels of productivity based on verifiable fairness and truth.  yes, there will be some pain but as a society we will work thru it.  the main losers will be those who stubbornly stick to fiat.  the young ppl are prepared to embrace Bitcoin, not gold.  they are the future.  the Boomers would do well to listen to them as they will become our future bankers and politicians.

listen to Daniel Krawisz on some of his recent podcasts.  he agrees with me that there will only be one dominant form of money according to Austrian Theory.  and it won't be gold or any of the altcoins. 

my long term view is that Bitcoin would function ideally as a world reserve currency for regional forms of fiat.  that would minimize the pain that those regions would undergo compared to an all or none scenario so they will be motivated to do it.  the first country to adopt Bitcoin as their reserve will enjoy explosive growth.

And he's back

+1

Goat is deleting his posts.

What happened to the page count?
we just lost 9 pages from the " Re: Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP."   Blockchain 

Thanks for running this thread, cypherdoc.  Always interesting. 

In a post-fiat world, my thinking is that a cyptocurrency (e.g., bitcoin) would become the dominant form of money, but that the demand for gold would actually increase as well (to a much lesser extent) simply because it is a decentralized hedge against the failure of the cryptocurrency (secp256k1 broken, significant internet infrastructure destroyed, unrelenting 51% attack, etc.) with thousands of years of history. 

What is your opinion on the long-term outlook for gold?  Do you expect the monetary properties of gold to vanish completely? 

Gold down. Bitcoin up.

1200's here we come. why does it go down right when you said it was gonna go up? 

nice trade, Trader.

Whats the point of gold if bitcoin were a secure store of value?

I'm not sure I still feel comfortable comparing the two as there is no real reason why people would not use both for a place to store wealth.  I can see why the price of gold would go down as it has made some strong moves up.

i'd love to see one last smackdown to around 14 or 15, im a big proponent of diversifying but at that price i'd seriously consider going all in.

aint happening, though.

With bitcoins I can at least encrypt my wallets / priv-keys and copy them on papers, usb keys, disks, cloud storage, emails or even on decentralized systems like freenet.
It's easy to send copies to my family and friends and also receive theirs. I am happy with this level of redundancy and security.

Thanks for your answer because somehow it's good too know that most holders seem to be in the same boat when it comes to precious metals; a boat that can sink at any moment.
I'll do what I did for bitcoin then, hold what I feel comfortable holding and potentially losing by taking the intrinsic risk into account.



When I think about bitcoin, I see where the value is, but when I think about gold, I really don't see it. So I, for one, do not overestimate its value.
I only buy precious metals because even though it's obsolete, I don't believe people will start discarding it anytime soon. It will take a while before it is replaced in the industry and in jewelry and stuff.
It's stupid but it's been considered precious for so many years (thousands!) that it must now be hardcoded in our brains. That will take time to erase.
So for now, I think it's still a good way to hedge again inflation (as long as the global monetary policy doesn't change radically).

I actually think that people underestimate the extent to which precious metals are now obsolete as a store of value.

The internet is barely 25 years old - yet almost all trades these days are conducted electronically. We now have a worldwide eletcronic trading platform, not a physical one.

Gold is actually no more than a "physical" bitcoin. It is a unique, fungible token - just like a plastic token at a funfair. It has no "intrinsic" value as such - its value derives from the fact that over the years it was found to have the very rare qualities that allowed it to serve as a generic unit of exchange.

In other words its value derives from its *role* as a monetary medium, not the other way around.

Remember the phrase "if you can't hold it, you don't own it" ?

Well, now that we have this worldwide electronic trading platform, that phrase favours cryptocurrencies more than precious metals. With cryptocurrencies you can electronically "hold" what you own. It's "electronic" holding of the base money medium that matters - not physical holding.

You cannot do this with gold. ok - you can have it delivered to your door, but the gold market would grind to a complete halt if every single trade had to be matched with a physical delivery somewhere.

That is why the writing is on the wall for precious metals as a store of value. Yes - if there was a worldwide currency crisis tomorrow, the gold price would undoubtedly rise, but its future is now severely limited in my opinion, even as a "safe haven" investment.

That's the thing you learn when you own precious metals or Bitcoin. There is no safety, there are no 100% guarantees. Same is true with fiat, but it is so much easier to buy into the notion that your fiat is "insured" and "protected"

So you have to learn to live with uncertainty. The best way to deal with that would be diversification imo. It is harder for a perpetual traveler, though.

Now it sounds like he actually likes Bitcoin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGsir1ypCP8

I'm new to precious metals trading holding and there's a few things that bother me. I'd love to hear solutions from you guys.

My first concern is storage. Where do you guys keep your stash ?
It's important not to keep all coins in one place of course, but I don't know of even one safe place to keep them.
Home is fine for small quantities only, safe deposit boxes are too expensive (and I don't trust them), in the wild under a rock is inconvenient, etc.

My other concern is with traveling.
I don't have a home country and travel constantly so now that I have coins I don't really know what I'll do when I have to move abroad.
Selling everything for bitcoins and buying again is a pain and would increase the likelihood of getting scammed.
Exchanging all my silver for gold would make the stash much smaller which would be easy to smuggle.
But if I ever get caught they'll still think I'm a freaking mafioso...

Also, right now my stash is small because of these issues I foresee, but I would love to see it grow to $50K (to give you an idea of what I'd travel with (1kg of gold...)).

Thanks for you help


P.S. Could we have a poll on what would be a good price to by Gold (then another for Silver) ?

This chart from Jesse's Crossroads Cafe looks to me like a screaming buy. Jesse draws dozens of lines but the line missing is the big downtrend from the peak. Like Bitcoin at the moment it rests on support and the selling appears exhausted.

can you elaborate? what are we looking at? some sort of liquidity crunch?

I'm getting fiat ready to buy some metal, maybe premature?

EDIT: what? I hear talk of taper? Can't persist for long.