Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1163. (Read 2032266 times)

Thanks for this, Cypherdoc.  

Vitalik Buterin inflicted serious credibility damage to Ethereum with his comments (to readers: watch from 11:50 onwards).  Here are two telling quotes:

"I never had a chance to do anything with bitcoin in 2009 and 2010.  I never even heard of it." -- Vitalik Buterin

"It's not a matter of whether the system is technically fair; it's a matter of whether it is actually fair." -- Vitalik Buterin

He agrees that bitcoin is technically fair, but claims it is not actually fair since he didn't know about it in 2009 - 2010.  Vitalik: what are you going to say in 2018 when someone says they didn't know about Ethereum in 2014?  Do you not see the problem with your interpretation of fairness?

Over $600,000,000 has been permanently sunken into building the bitcoin blockchain ledger.  Over 5 years, 3 large growth spurts and collapses, and several smaller spikes and crashes, the dynamics of the bitcoin market have been slowly optimizing the distribution of coins in this ledger.  Each new price level attained, both higher and lower, causes some people to divest and others to invest in such a way that the distribution of coins becomes more and more stable and efficient.  

If you want Ethereum to have a chance of success, distribute the coins according to the bitcoin blockchain.  You immediately gain a huge potential user base, and if you personally want to buy coins, I'm sure some large bitcoin holders will sell you their "free" coins for cheap.

i'm sure that plays a part.

but if you're a Bitcoin purist, philosophically these lulls serve a purpose; to kill off competition.  this is what we may be seeing esp. with Ethereum.

If they make their IPO in a bubble phase, when every one buy anything because every random altcoins increase like crazy, then they will have no trouble whatsoever to raise a lot of money.

But in a calm period, like we are now, it may be more difficult. Maybe that's the reason of the delayed IPO.

it looks to me like they're having a hard time with releasing it.

i'm sure it has to do with the initial distribution of ether with the rule set favoring the creators and devs.  their excuse is the time, effort and resources put in to developing the code.  an understandable argument but when one compares this to open source "best practices" of no pre-mine, ala Bitcoin, i'm sure this is a tough sell.

Interesting notion.

I don't think so.  

Cypherdoc often says that "the geeks know not what they hath birthed."  Ethereum, NxT, Ripple, etc., are examples of the geeks missing the point.  Features don't really matter, Turing completeness is a hindrance, proof-of-stake no one cares.  What is important is the global unforgeable ledger known as the blockchain and the efficient distribution of wealth that it has come to represent.  

Over $600,000,000 has been permanently sunken into building this ledger.  Over 5 years, 3 large growth spurts and collapses, and several smaller spikes and crashes, the dynamics of the bitcoin market have been slowly optimizing the distribution of coins in this ledger.  Each new price level attained, both higher and lower, causes some people to divest and others to invest in such a way that the distribution of coins becomes more and more stable and efficient.  

If someone wants to launch an innovative alt-coin, start with the bitcoin blockchain!  Every bitcoin user has the keys to their funds, so if you make the same keys unlock the same distribution of funds in the new coin, then you've already got a captive user base of people who support cryptocurrency!!  The fact that no one does this provides insight into the intent of many alt coin creators.  

Recognizing the importance of the blockchain also shows that bitcoin would survive even a permanent 51% attack.  Since the value is in the ledger, a new network would be birthed that mined the latest bitcoin blockchain using a different PoW algorithm.  Bitcoin users would support this network since they would retain their coins, and miners would mine it since they are guaranteed a huge user base to whom they could sell their mined coins.  

Do you guys think ethereum will be valuable in a few years (after it comes out)?

Exactly my thoughts. Made me question the whole buzz around Ethereum.

a great article by Daniel Krawisz with which i totally agree:

http://themisescircle.org/blog/2014/03/14/the-coming-demise-of-the-altcoins/

i re-listened to the Coinsumm.it panel with Vitalik Buterin, Johnston, and the NXT guy.  was very disappointed in one of Vitalik's criticisms of Bitcoin as being unfair.   the argument amounted to him complaining he never had a chance to invest in Bitcoin in 2009-10 just b/c he hadn't heard about it.  if Ethereum ever gets off the ground, which it won't, someone could make the same complaint a few years from now that he/she hadn't "heard" of Ethereum today. 

http://ytchannelembed.com/video.php?id=dpwhT63EkZ4&t=

them's the breaks.

not a big deal.  Vladimir is just being given control of the Bitcoin Core client to give Gavin more time to deal with other things.  Gavin will continue with the underlying protocol and it's relations with other implementations.

MK won't jump while the coins are temporarily unavailable.

What do you all make of this:

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=677

Gavin stepping down as lead dev scientist ...

in that case mr Karpeles would have jumped out of a window some time ago.

i'm sure alot of them already got goxed by gox.

Those jews are smart ones they know the money game.. They will buy the knowledge before they step in the ring.. Im sure they wont be the ones totally fleeced.. Never are... I think after some years we will see ramification of their actions not today.

I am fully anticipating many lolz when the 'wizards' of Wall St. get Goxxed in some way shape form when they show up in Bitcoinia and try their BS-finance crap around here.

If the ETP gets naked shorted, we can always buy blocks of 25k for cheaper than they are worth and redeem them.

Also am not expecting it to be the price determiner any time soon.

I don't think the same games can be played as they are with PMs. Comex gold derivatives take advantage of the difficulty and expense of opting for physical delivery of gold contracts. There is no case to be made for the situation being the same for Bitcoin, and so if the Wall Street exchanges refuse or stall withdrawals, then they'll get tarred with the Gox moniker. Not to say that this won't happen, but I think the problems with Bitcoinica, Mt. Gox and Vicurex will be way too fresh in people's minds to permit recklessly large deposits on an exchange run in Wall Street (of all places, at this point in the history of that institution's reputation). Watch closely the language that gets used to describe their processes, if "withdrawal", "deposit" and "balance" are passed over for some other euphemisms, tread carefully, and deride loudly if necessary.

Any exchange that joins in with Second Market's 'hub and spoke' arrangement can expect to see some very guarded use of their deposit facilities. Sounds like a situation where mutual finger-pointing will replace meaningful responsibility if there was ever an issue.

Derivatives are about to be unleashed on Bitcoin, so the problems gold has will become Bitcoin's. Yes it's becoming a big boy's game, and it'll be manipulated all the same.

The only difference is that investment must be saturated before it's fleeced. Bitcoin will have to go up a very long way until it's no longer the golden child of institutional giants.

No more evident was this than in 2008 as meltdown happened paper gold fell
but physical was steady.

Jpm is the single biggest culprit by being backed by the fed with unlimited power to issue gold credit at will.. sometimes cornering the market to make profits like dumping through the 15xx wall with billions of $ of margin calls. Dimon said he outsmartedthe market by selling higj buying low
but he hurt the sentiment.. and now with things like bitcoin there are less manilulated risk reward plays for those that like to hedge inflation.

What a beautiful way of saying "Those bastards have been manipulating the gold price to the hilt!"