Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1202. (Read 2032266 times)

Well that sure puts things in perspective  

What's interesting is that bitcoin is probably a very good way to bribe government officials.  So it shouldn't surprise anyone if a lot of them end up having lots of BTC.

finally got around to finding it:



[–]evoorhees 20 points 1 month ago

Your first point (regarding mining) is completely irrelevant to the price of bitcoin. The mining industry is a derivative of and subordinate to the Bitcoin industry, not the other way around. Mining follows price, not the opposite.

Your other points are good ones.

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[–]cypherdoc2 5 points 1 month ago

no, i don't agree Erik.

mining goes hand in hand with the merchant economy and investment (speculation). it is a critical part of Bitcoin as it provides the clearing of tx's and security to the system as a whole.

vbenes below is correct in that an investor, who might initially look into getting into Bitcoin via mining currently, will look at the exponentially rising hashrate/difficulty and will conclude that it's too competitive and as a result divert his fiat into buying of BTC instead. he will also conclude that the exponentially rising HR/diff is very good for the security of his investment.

right now, we're seeing HR/diff leading the price; essentially dragging the BTC price higher. at other times, we might see the opposite; price leading HR/diff and dragging it higher.

all that matters is that fiat is entering the Bitcoin economy in one form or another. all of which is a very good thing.

Thanks for the great reply, I turned in as I hit post. (I didn't intended to get anyone out of bed, anyway we're still taking heavy fire here in the trenches)  

 Lot of insight in the comments above, looks like interesting times ahead (and I though growing up through the dismantling of apartate in SA was history)

That was my interpretation of PBOC's statement, they are trying to ban something they know banks are trying to get involved, otherwise they need not be so explicit.

And let us not forget the individual bankers themselves.

Who seriously thinks they'll let themselves get behind the wave?

I agree with what you said here, but I would also not rule out the possibility of purchases by the government itself, it can even be done with private hands.

Yep,  what I'd give to be a zit on Bobby Lee's forehead.

He can probably see further than almost anyone in the bitcoin community right now.

Yeah but the interesting thing is it's probably individual officials buying mostly, rather than having some kind of government treasury hold wallet data for the government as a whole or any department. Bitcoin is so good at what it does that it could rip these bureaucracies apart, since for the first time each individual's wealth isn't contingent on the web of trust in the political world. It's a way for even government officials to opt out. And of course not just in China.

If this is true it would confirm what I have been saying for a while: hoarding bitcoins is good, it's an essential safeguard for our liberty lest all coins go into the hands of governments.

Holy shit that's the missing puzzle piece (in the conspiracy theory)!

It's well known that China has been encouraging its citizens to stockpile gold, probably so they could confiscate it if needed and as a way of making their citizens richer (a sort of leveraged play on gold).

I was thinking they might be doing the same thing with Bitcoin now. But the problem with the theory was always that they can't really confiscate bitcoins. However, they can sort of do it by manipulating the market and media, laws, etc. It's exactly what you'd expect a powerful and strategically cunning government to do.

It's actually a pretty great strategy. Get your citizens to buy, and if the price goes down it's the same as if they gambled it away in Macau. The government loses nothing much. If the price goes up you get more tax money and economic growth, and then with your strong control of media and everything you can "shake the tree" and still be able to buy in yourself at decent prices once Bitcoin is more solidly a thing.

Lower risk and higher reward than just buying in with your own money right away.

Oh, you just inspire me of a new conspiracy theory: perhaps China(or some other mighty organizations) is busy liquidating gold and accumulating bitcoins, so they are putting a temporary check on the price parity.

This actually makes sense if you analyze the sequence of events during these two months: bitcoins used to be available in large quantities only on foreign exchanges, thus CCP can't get hold of them without moving large amount of fiats into foreign exchanges, which will likely attract attentions. So they may decide to first prop up the bitcoin price in China, gradually siphoning bitcoins into Chinese exchanges, then issue the PBOC statement to creak a market panic, frighten the Chinese speculators to undersell the bitcoins they just bought, and thereby accumulating many bitcoins using yuans being moved entirely within Chinese financial system, which they can freely manipulate to hide their true identities.

Perhaps China is protecting Bitcoin from an overrun and/or keeping the price low so that gov people can buy in.

When we finally break gold parity it will be all the more shocking because right now the gold believers can entrench their views by saying, "See? It can never beat gold. Everyone knows that. Bitcoin was slayed by the golden dragon. Hahahahaaa."

Reminds me of the Japanese when they were booming buying up California real estate and then taking a bath on it.  The Chinese are buying up all the gold around the same time it might become irrelevant.   The true innovations might still be out west.  Time will tell.

PBOC stands to benefit from a large amount of domestic gold if they want to make a move on the dollar's status as the reserve currency.

We can see how important the US's relative gold holdings were in the Bretton Woods system. If China wants to duplicate that success, every ounce of gold sold to a Chinese citizen is an ounce the West doesn't have.

So I don't know if it's necessarily true that they don't care about the individiual Chinese citizen; they just, like most governments, seem to advance the "national interest" (whatever the fuck that means) before the interest of their people as a collective whole.

We need to read between the lines.

Why do the PBOC made it explicit that all banks and payment processors can't offer Bitcoin services, and go as far as making a ban list? Are not China's banks just PBOC's bitches, and making too much money to care about Bitcoin at all? Also in this nation we don't really care much about the accuracy of wording anyway, we are not a nation of lawyers.

Chances are, that the financial institutions actually had secretly planned to get in Bitcoin, that they have been quenching their thirst for bitcoins for a long time, and it's high time the big daddy should grab their ears and give them a warning.


Also, one would be naive to think that PBOC really cares about common folks' risks. The banks have been pimping gold to their customers since day one of the gold drop, PBOC didn't give a damn.

Ah yes, the quiet sound of capitulation.

Time to start buying soon.

now look what you did.

i had closed the lid of my laptop for the nite, wandered off to bed, and then had to look at my Android to see your message.  no ones ever called me General before.  sigh...

---ok, back on the laptop:

there are going to be legions upon legions of newcomers to buy these dips.  i think our Senate hearings was a tipping point for the US which is why you're seeing analysts like David Woo coming forward for the first time giving a truthful, practical outlook for cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin.  he's a very well respected analyst from BofA who i've seen on CNBS a number of times.  very well spoken and smart.  and Chinese.  he should know, right?  once you get one defector, they'll all defect.

yes, the fact that we pushed over gold twice already has that fact cemented in everyone's brain.  as we come up upon a third time (3's the trick) i'm sure everyone will have their hand poised over the BUY button.  i wouldn't be surprised if a number of my subs weren't part of the selloff that occurred when we hit gold parity as i had quietly told one or two of them privately upon questioning i'd consider selling some BTC once we hit that landmark.  i didn't though.

i just stumbled across this Hong Kong based analyst Joseph Wang who gives us a good insight into the minds of the Chinese:  

http://www.quora.com/Bitcoin/Why-did-the-Chinese-Bitcoin-ban-result-in-the-price-crashing-so-hard

he's of the opinion that the BofC's announcement is actually a bullish sign given that apparently they will be leaving BTCChina and it's customers alone.  they are going to try and firewall off the Bitcoin economy in China so as to prevent a Lehman type failure in the traditional banking system if in the likely event they decided to leverage up going after BTC.  makes perfect sense to me.  read all his other answers to key questions from that site.  very illuminating and bullish.  i think it's the stupid US investors who read a headline like "BofC bans Bitcoins for bankers" and go bonkers.  most of the initial selling has come from them.  the weak hands who don't really understand Bitcoin.

as for me, my retirement fund transfer is due to hit Second Market hopefully on Monday but more likely Tuesday.  so don't tell anyone anything i just said as i need to get my funds into the BIT at the lowest NAV possible come Tuesday.

thank you.  

P.S.: get back to work, Private.