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Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1198. (Read 2032266 times)

donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
December 18, 2013, 01:40:02 PM
Never trust a proudhon.

Price can't go much below USD$200 now without starting to squeeze margins on a large portion of miners. The next wave of input cost pressure should hit at around 50-100,000,000,000 difficulty, just as it helped kick off the price rise after the 100-200,000,000 level. As long as we get back to business as usual after a few more bouts of panic selling, that is.

War is on, got popcorn?

2011->GPU saturation, available now
Difficulty even declined for several adjustment periods.

April 2013->ASIC adoption beginnings
Difficulty continued to climb until price caught back up.

Now->ASIC nearing saturation?  Available now.

This is a face flag event, not that proudhon isn't trust worthy, he is testing people's trust in Bitcoin.

ASIC saturation is a point to keep an eye out for but I don't think it is here yet. 

This is all rather fascinating, lots of main stream media calling Bitcoin a scam yet this stuff doesn't filter through the Bitcoin blogosphere..

Note following the link, Mark Williams is under the impression Bitcoin is a hot potato and is oblivious to the reasons most have invested in the first place.

Interesting to watch the Krugman video bit linked below that article. It seems Krugman got a little softer on Bitcoin:

Quote from: Paul Krugman
I basically think that [bitcoin] is a digital version for gold cranks, but [..] it's hard to not be a little bit shaken when it goes on this long and of course we know that's always true of bubbles. But still, I mean: in principle, you can have assets which are considered valuable even though there's nothing backing them because of the self-fulfilling expectations.

Now, we don't actually think that fiat money is like that, because ultimately that's backed by the fact that you pay taxes with it. Fiat money, if you like, is backed by men with guns. Bitcoin is not. So why should this thing have any value. And of course it doesn't pay interest.

On the other hand, maybe the ability to do transactions that you think are invisible, after what we learned about the NSA I wouldn't bet on it, makes some of these people willing to hold. So, there is a case that says this actually might make sense. I very much doubt that that case is what's actually driving the value of Bitcoin. I think Bitcoin is being driven by the fact that it sounds impressive and people think there must be something there.

But,... who knows?
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
December 18, 2013, 01:35:38 PM

Well, the crisis in confidence should have happened when they were unable to return Germany's gold when they asked for it. Nothing happened so apparently people don't care or comprehend.

Which way should such event push the price? On the one hand we find out that the government is lying about their gold holdings, so what can we trust about gold? On the other hand, it appears the government has to buy up some huge amount of physical gold to give to the Germans, so that should raise the price, right?

On the one hand there is less gold than previously thought on the other the government has to buy a huge amount. So two reasons for the price to explode upwards (and the stock market to collapse as the trust in US government should be dead because of this with an instant downgrade of their debt).

I don't hold any PMs and I do have a stock portfolio btw Smiley
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
December 18, 2013, 01:21:25 PM
Yes it is more complicated.  Such is true of everything.

I think this recent article sums up the relationship between QE1 to QE3, Taper and M1 quite eloquently. Nevertheless, the world is full of opinions on Gold's trajectory.

I think it makes the most sense to carefully watch the general opinion on investing in paper and other assets and monitor if and to which degree trust in the system starts to wane. Then and only then, PM's will have their finest moments. This moment could still be years away.

Agreed.
I'd wager the trajectory is downward until Germany has their gold back.

2020?

Sooner.  US said 7 years, but we won't be informed until after it occurs, which will expected to be ahead of that time.
They could do it in 2 Jet loads, (as soon as they buy the physical from driving down the price of the paper gold).
It could be happening now, I doubt security will allow any advance notice.

Couldn't they just buy the gold in germany and save on jet fuel?
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye
December 18, 2013, 01:16:48 PM

Well, the crisis in confidence should have happened when they were unable to return Germany's gold when they asked for it. Nothing happened so apparently people don't care or comprehend.

Which way should such event push the price? On the one hand we find out that the government is lying about their gold holdings, so what can we trust about gold? On the other hand, it appears the government has to buy up some huge amount of physical gold to give to the Germans, so that should raise the price, right?
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
December 18, 2013, 12:36:38 PM
Very good call. I thought it might get down this low but never this fast. BTC be crazy!
I don't think declines can be slow and gradual like they were in April-November 2011 any more. Too much has changed about the ecosystem since then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
December 18, 2013, 11:35:38 AM
Very good call. I thought it might get down this low but never this fast. BTC be crazy!
I don't think declines can be slow and gradual like they were in April-November 2011 any more. Too much has changed about the ecosystem since then.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
December 18, 2013, 11:05:00 AM

Wow, you actually believe the US has the gold?

no, he said they will have to purchase the physical

But he seems to focus on transportation and also seems to think this will happen fast.

"Fast"?  Well, before 7 years is up, if you call that fast.
It is in the bullion bank's interest to drive the price down as quickly as they can to get it done, but the faster they go the more expensive it will be.

Logistically, it could be done in a week if they had the gold at hand.
The point is I dont know when.  You don't know, and we shouldn't expect to be told ahead of delivery.
Someone will know, but that isn't us.

I expect them to take much more than 7 years (if they ever return it at all). They will just extend the paid arrangement with Germany, who know what time it is as well.

I suspect that the crisis of confidence such action would create would be more expensive than the gold itself (and also make the gold more expensive).

Well, the crisis in confidence should have happened when they were unable to return Germany's gold when they asked for it. Nothing happened so apparently people don't care or comprehend.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
December 18, 2013, 11:03:27 AM

Wow, you actually believe the US has the gold?

no, he said they will have to purchase the physical

But he seems to focus on transportation and also seems to think this will happen fast.

"Fast"?  Well, before 7 years is up, if you call that fast.
It is in the bullion bank's interest to drive the price down as quickly as they can to get it done, but the faster they go the more expensive it will be.

Logistically, it could be done in a week if they had the gold at hand.
The point is I dont know when.  You don't know, and we shouldn't expect to be told ahead of delivery.
Someone will know, but that isn't us.

I expect them to take much more than 7 years (if they ever return it at all). They will just extend the paid arrangement with Germany, who know what time it is as well.

I suspect that the crisis of confidence such action would create would be more expensive than the gold itself (and also make the gold more expensive).
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
December 18, 2013, 10:25:48 AM
ASIC saturation is a point to keep an eye out for but I don't think it is here yet. 

Agreed, we still have at least two rounds of feature size improvements left before gains top out.

As far as the dip into the $400s, the volume looks to me as though we may have seen the brunt of exhaustion selling. I'd start buying anywhere below $550 now.

Back to keeping an eye on gold and silver... Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
December 18, 2013, 08:41:06 AM
So now sell the Lambo and be the first worldwide who made many on buying a new Lambo and flipping it within a couple of weeks Tongue
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
December 18, 2013, 05:05:01 AM

Wow, you actually believe the US has the gold?

no, he said they will have to purchase the physical

But he seems to focus on transportation and also seems to think this will happen fast.

"Fast"?  Well, before 7 years is up, if you call that fast.
It is in the bullion bank's interest to drive the price down as quickly as they can to get it done, but the faster they go the more expensive it will be.

Logistically, it could be done in a week if they had the gold at hand.
The point is I dont know when.  You don't know, and we shouldn't expect to be told ahead of delivery.
Someone will know, but that isn't us.

I expect them to take much more than 7 years (if they ever return it at all). They will just extend the paid arrangement with Germany, who know what time it is as well.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
December 18, 2013, 04:47:34 AM
Bitcoin collapsing. God UP.

He's a man of his word.  He said he wouldn't post till bitcoin was in the $500s and look at us now. 

Nice call, Risto.
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
December 18, 2013, 04:43:53 AM
Bitcoin collapsing. God UP.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
December 18, 2013, 04:42:49 AM

Thanks heavens I took enough out to do next year's projects rather than waiting to start until the turn of the year to use the capital gains tax scam (perfectly legal, but still a scam imho.)  $1000/BTC this year is equiv to $750/BTC next year if I can fit into the 0% capital gains keyhole.  Roughly.  My last bunch of withdraws were at over $1000/BTC but I usually didn't get near Mt. Gox pricing at Coinbase.  Now I can rest on my heels and see if it looks like this collapse will blow over.  Didn't convert any BTC into PM's as I'd hoped though.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wash_sale
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
December 18, 2013, 03:39:32 AM

Thanks heavens I took enough out to do next year's projects rather than waiting to start until the turn of the year to use the capital gains tax scam (perfectly legal, but still a scam imho.)  $1000/BTC this year is equiv to $750/BTC next year if I can fit into the 0% capital gains keyhole.  Roughly.  My last bunch of withdraws were at over $1000/BTC but I usually didn't get near Mt. Gox pricing at Coinbase.  Now I can rest on my heels and see if it looks like this collapse will blow over.  Didn't convert any BTC into PM's as I'd hoped though.

legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
December 18, 2013, 02:20:14 AM
Never trust a proudhon.

Price can't go much below USD$200 now without starting to squeeze margins on a large portion of miners. The next wave of input cost pressure should hit at around 50-100,000,000,000 difficulty, just as it helped kick off the price rise after the 100-200,000,000 level. As long as we get back to business as usual after a few more bouts of panic selling, that is.

War is on, got popcorn?

2011->GPU saturation, available now
Difficulty even declined for several adjustment periods.

April 2013->ASIC adoption beginnings
Difficulty continued to climb until price caught back up.

Now->ASIC nearing saturation?  Available now.

This is a face flag event, not that proudhon isn't trust worthy, he is testing people's trust in Bitcoin.

ASIC saturation is a point to keep an eye out for but I don't think it is here yet. 

This is all rather fascinating, lots of main stream media calling Bitcoin a scam yet this stuff doesn't filter through the Bitcoin blogosphere..

Note following the link, Mark Williams is under the impression Bitcoin is a hot potato and is oblivious to the reasons most have invested in the first place.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
December 18, 2013, 01:34:46 AM
Never trust a proudhon.

Price can't go much below USD$200 now without starting to squeeze margins on a large portion of miners. The next wave of input cost pressure should hit at around 50-100,000,000,000 difficulty, just as it helped kick off the price rise after the 100-200,000,000 level. As long as we get back to business as usual after a few more bouts of panic selling, that is.

War is on, got popcorn?

2011->GPU saturation, available now
Difficulty even declined for several adjustment periods.

April 2013->ASIC adoption beginnings
Difficulty continued to climb until price caught back up.

Now->ASIC nearing saturation?  Available now.

legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
December 18, 2013, 01:30:10 AM
Never trust a proudhon.

Price can't go much below USD$200 now without starting to squeeze margins on a large portion of miners. The next wave of input cost pressure should hit at around 50-100,000,000,000 difficulty, just as it helped kick off the price rise after the 100-200,000,000 level. As long as we get back to business as usual after a few more bouts of panic selling, that is.

War is on, got popcorn?
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
December 18, 2013, 12:50:27 AM

Wow, you actually believe the US has the gold?

no, he said they will have to purchase the physical

But he seems to focus on transportation and also seems to think this will happen fast.

"Fast"?  Well, before 7 years is up, if you call that fast.
It is in the bullion bank's interest to drive the price down as quickly as they can to get it done, but the faster they go the more expensive it will be.

Logistically, it could be done in a week if they had the gold at hand.
The point is I dont know when.  You don't know, and we shouldn't expect to be told ahead of delivery.
Someone will know, but that isn't us.
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 4738
diamond-handed zealot
December 17, 2013, 07:27:42 PM
Clearly, whether the physical is even still on planet is an open question, granted.
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