Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 414.

Cconvert2G36

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Quote from: cypherdoc on April 19, 2015, 10:02:09 PM

Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on April 19, 2015, 07:41:40 PM

You make the case about as well as it can be done at this point. Although, there was also extreme profit motive vs Mark K, on the other side of the razor.

no, the USG was way up his ass in many ways. not to mention the $5.1 M they seized from Tibanne here in the US. i'm sure he was under a gag order. so was the Japanese police ever since the 17.5 to 0.0101 hack as he reported it to them.

i'm sure during the subsequent investigations his systems got compromised. and if i'm right, that they had access to the systems, i wouldn't put it past the gvts to steal coins that could be responsible for the depressed prices we see today in the never ending inexplicable selloffs we've been getting. that's my tinfoil.

The June 2011 hack happened exactly as it had to. With access to a huge amount of coins the price had to be dropped to near nothing, allowing a certain dollar value of btc to leave the system. A non-state actor would face it the same way.

I'm definitely not ruling out your theory. Just feel there are other possibilities.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on April 19, 2015, 07:41:40 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on April 19, 2015, 10:34:07 AM

Peter's is a good theory. in fact, i take it one step further. i think it was probably gvt agents who took it down from 17.5 to 0.002 at the time.

what a crazy way to accumulate coins, if it was indeed just a hacker. if he had really stole source code, he would have just bled 100 coin lots over the next 3 yrs as was apparently done according to WizSec. no drama. i remember quite vividly watching the attack take place real time on what was then used, Sierra Charts. it was a straight down spiral of the price with no intervening buys, just selling. it reminded me of watching the Bear Stearns chart plummet in real time back in 2008. it's indescribable seeing such a thing happen right before your very eyes. it was so public and so obvious that the guy Kevin got identified immediately for having bought 259684 BTC for under $3000:

06/19/11 17:51 Bought BTC 259684.77 for 0.0101

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/im-kevin-heres-my-side-20207

no, my bet is on gvt agents who were trying to destroy Bitcoin. this board was covered with obvious trolls even back then and mtgox had just captured the public's attention for the first time with the run to 32. since then, we have found out an astounding number of facts about NSA's unabashed unconstitutional actions to invade privacy and perform sabotage such as Stuxnet, Gemalto, Prism, Merkel's cellphone, etc, etc. The SR agents were methodical, ruthless, and matter of fact about stealing SR coins acting with impunity. doesn't seem to far a stretch that gvt agents would steal from mtgox while taking it down at the same time. it would explain the radio silence on the whole issue as well as an attempt to bury the truth forever.

You make the case about as well as it can be done at this point. Although, there was also extreme profit motive vs Mark K, on the other side of the razor.

no, the USG was way up his ass in many ways. not to mention the $5.1 M they seized from Tibanne here in the US. i'm sure he was under a gag order. so was the Japanese police ever since the 17.5 to 0.0101 hack as he reported it to them.

i'm sure during the subsequent investigations his systems got compromised. and if i'm right, that they had access to the systems, i wouldn't put it past the gvts to steal coins that could be responsible for the depressed prices we see today in the never ending inexplicable selloffs we've been getting. that's my tinfoil.

Cconvert2G36

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: cypherdoc on April 19, 2015, 10:34:07 AM

Peter's is a good theory. in fact, i take it one step further. i think it was probably gvt agents who took it down from 17.5 to 0.002 at the time.

what a crazy way to accumulate coins, if it was indeed just a hacker. if he had really stole source code, he would have just bled 100 coin lots over the next 3 yrs as was apparently done according to WizSec. no drama. i remember quite vividly watching the attack take place real time on what was then used, Sierra Charts. it was a straight down spiral of the price with no intervening buys, just selling. it reminded me of watching the Bear Stearns chart plummet in real time back in 2008. it's indescribable seeing such a thing happen right before your very eyes. it was so public and so obvious that the guy Kevin got identified immediately for having bought 259684 BTC for under $3000:

06/19/11 17:51 Bought BTC 259684.77 for 0.0101

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/im-kevin-heres-my-side-20207

no, my bet is on gvt agents who were trying to destroy Bitcoin. this board was covered with obvious trolls even back then and mtgox had just captured the public's attention for the first time with the run to 32. since then, we have found out an astounding number of facts about NSA's unabashed unconstitutional actions to invade privacy and perform sabotage such as Stuxnet, Gemalto, Prism, Merkel's cellphone, etc, etc. The SR agents were methodical, ruthless, and matter of fact about stealing SR coins acting with impunity. doesn't seem to far a stretch that gvt agents would steal from mtgox while taking it down at the same time. it would explain the radio silence on the whole issue as well as an attempt to bury the truth forever.

You make the case about as well as it can be done at this point. Although, there was also extreme profit motive vs Mark K, on the other side of the razor.

cypherdoc

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Bitcoin trolls. you really need to look the hell out:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/336f1w/its_not_about_21_inc_its_all_about_qualcomm/

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: justusranvier on April 19, 2015, 02:08:39 PM

Quote from: molecular on April 19, 2015, 01:51:38 PM

You can't rule out some smart people get hired into 3-letter-agencies, for example.

You especially can't rule out smart criminals joining 3-letter-agencies for the express purpose of being able to line their own pockets under the colour of law.

in fact, you can just about guarantee that the more power vested in these agencies the more venal and power-seeking the type of individuals they attract.

cypherdoc

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wow, more smartphone innovation on the horizon. mobile is the bomb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNTObCr4gnM&feature=youtu.be

cypherdoc

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wow, Ledger Wallet guys seem on top of things. hardware wallet capabilities already built into your phone?:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114003/bitcoin-could-be-stored-securely-as-a-hardware-wallet-on-your-phone

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: rocks on April 19, 2015, 01:27:45 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on April 19, 2015, 10:34:07 AM

no, my bet is on gvt agents who were trying to destroy Bitcoin. this board was covered with obvious trolls even back then and mtgox had just captured the public's attention for the first time with the run to 32. since then, we have found out an astounding number of facts about NSA's unabashed unconstitutional actions to invade privacy and perform sabotage such as Stuxnet, Gemalto, Prism, Merkel's cellphone, etc, etc. The SR agents were methodical, ruthless, and matter of fact about stealing SR coins with impunity. doesn't seem to far a stretch that gvt agents would steal from mtgox while taking it down at the same time. it would explain the radio silence on the whole issue as well as an attempt to bury the truth forever.

If true this would be the biggest endorsement of bitcoin I could imagine. It would mean that despite the government's best efforts and resources, they could not identify any mechanism to attack bitcoin even in it's early days, and so had to resort to attacking 3rd party intermediaries and not bitcoin itself. This implies that the bitcoin distributed computer is already hardened against large scale attacks. Of course it also means that governments are already seeking methods to attack bitcoin, and if they can not stop the DAC, regulation becomes the next obvious choice.

In another light, the senate hearings of Nov-2013 may have signified a capitulation after an unsuccessful covert attack. "We can't kill this thing let's begin efforts to coopt it into an unworkable regulatory framework", like they have done with electronic gold as money. bitcoin of course has effectively no targettable counter-parties at the network level.

Erdogan

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It wasn't really surprising that the Japan economy turns out to be weak currently. Come with a bogous economic theory, put it in practise, and conclude that it is surprising that it didn't work. From the eating-hole of Haruhiko Kuroda:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/bank-of-japan-chief-says-he-sees-progress-on-higher-inflation-1429479006

Erdogan

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Quote from: cypherdoc on April 19, 2015, 05:19:53 PM

Quote from: Erdogan on April 19, 2015, 03:09:56 PM

Quote from: Wandererfromthenorth on April 19, 2015, 02:48:37 PM

[...]
NSA talking about "electronic anonymous cryptographic cash" prototype in 1996:
[...]

For 30 years. It does not change a thing. We have the distributed blockchain with proof of work and block reward in the form of the currency itself. It looks easy now, but were not. It is an invention. They could not know.

Doesn't matter if Satoshi or the NSA wrote it. It's open source and had been inspected up the wazoo. It does what we think it does.

That too.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: Erdogan on April 19, 2015, 03:09:56 PM

Quote from: Wandererfromthenorth on April 19, 2015, 02:48:37 PM

[...]
NSA talking about "electronic anonymous cryptographic cash" prototype in 1996:
[...]

For 30 years. It does not change a thing. We have the distributed blockchain with proof of work and block reward in the form of the currency itself. It looks easy now, but were not. It is an invention. They could not know.

Doesn't matter if Satoshi or the NSA wrote it. It's open source and had been inspected up the wazoo. It does what we think it does. And if it doesn't, we'll change it.

Erdogan

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Quote from: Wandererfromthenorth on April 19, 2015, 02:48:37 PM

[...]
NSA talking about "electronic anonymous cryptographic cash" prototype in 1996:
[...]

For 30 years. It does not change a thing. We have the distributed blockchain with proof of work and block reward in the form of the currency itself. It looks easy now, but were not. It is an invention. They could not know.

Wandererfromthenorth

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Quote from: cypherdoc on April 19, 2015, 01:50:54 PM

Did you ever think that the NSA had the capabilities they have been shown to possess from the Snowden documents? And most experts agree that those documents released in 2013 are at least 2 years old. Cracking into mtgox would have been trivial for them.

And then... plot twist:

NSA created bitcoin Tongue

NSA talking about "electronic anonymous cryptographic cash" prototype in 1996:

http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm

"Satoshi Nakamoto" anagram:

"I am NSA, took oaths"

Tongue

/tinfoilhat
/troll

rocks

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Quote from: justusranvier on April 19, 2015, 02:08:39 PM

Quote from: molecular on April 19, 2015, 01:51:38 PM

You can't rule out some smart people get hired into 3-letter-agencies, for example.

You especially can't rule out smart criminals joining 3-letter-agencies for the express purpose of being able to line their own pockets under the colour of law.

Agreed. Politicians and bureaucrats may be nothing more than feudal court officials, which requires zero brain power. But spending $3,500,000,000,000 per year does buy you intelligence in various agencies.

Heck we already know that the CIA contacted Gavin and Satoshi in late-2010 / early-2011, so someone there noticed bitcoin's potential before most (or maybe any) of us.

justusranvier

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Quote from: molecular on April 19, 2015, 01:51:38 PM

You can't rule out some smart people get hired into 3-letter-agencies, for example.

You especially can't rule out smart criminals joining 3-letter-agencies for the express purpose of being able to line their own pockets under the colour of law.

molecular

donator

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Quote from: BldSwtTrs on April 19, 2015, 01:41:24 PM

Guys, governments are structurally inefficient. Do you really think a bunch of bureaucrats could understand the potential of bitcoin back in 2011?

If governments were so smart and visionary, administered economy would work.

Government is big. It consists of many people. You can't rule out some smart people get hired into 3-letter-agencies, for example.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: BldSwtTrs on April 19, 2015, 01:41:24 PM

Guys, governments are structurally inefficient. Do you really think a bunch of bureaucrats could understand the potential of bitcoin back in 2011?

If governments were so smart and visionary, administered economy would work.

Yes I do, especially when it comes to threats in monetary matters. They've demonstrated this understanding many times in the past ; Von Nothaus for one.

Did you ever think that the NSA had the capabilities they have been shown to possess from the Snowden documents? And most experts agree that those documents released in 2013 are at least 2 years old. Cracking into mtgox would have been trivial for them.

Erdogan

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Quote from: BldSwtTrs on April 19, 2015, 01:41:24 PM

Guys, governments are structurally inefficient. Do you really think a bunch of bureaucrats could understand the potential of bitcoin back in 2011?

If governments were so smart and visionary, administered economy would work.

Good point, but it can also be that some people know, but does not care to tell.

lebing

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Enabling the maximal migration

Quote from: lunarboy on April 19, 2015, 01:10:30 PM

Grexit seems almost inevitable these days.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/apr/16/greece-moves-step-closer-to-grexit-after-imf-snub

After that all eyes will be on Spain and Podemos.

From a bitcoin perspective it seems self serving to cheer for currency crisis, but to my mind it appears to be the lesser of two evils. The Third option that nobody is talking about is a federal European union. I just can't see any member state willing to give up autonomy for "the ~~good~~? of the union' Huh

I can't help but get giddy thinking of this house of cards so near to falling.

cypherdoc

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Balaji Srinivasan seeing clearly. Any naysayers better think twice:

"One way to understand mining is that in return for doing transactions you get to add a direct deposit to yourself," Srinivasan said. "For a blockchain to exist, that token introduction needs to be there at least under the paradigm that we had."

Should such a system be capable of existing, he said, it hasn't been discovered.

"We think it's going to be bitcoin or nothing at the present time," he added.

"If we assume there are 10 million Google servers and each of these servers is running. You can multiply that through and you get about one petahash. If they turned off all their data centers and pointed them at bitcoin, they'd be less than 1% of the network," he continued."

"Are there legal issues? I think that was a reasonable concern in 2013, [but] I don't think that's a reasonable thing today," Srinivasan said.

http://www.coindesk.com/21-ceo-balaji-srinivasan-bitcoin-job-fair/

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 414. (Read 2032286 times)