Author

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 463. (Read 2032286 times)

legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
March 11, 2015, 05:54:19 PM
Quote
I think he probably left it out due to complexity of thoroughly testing and left it up to the world to figure out.. If it has value do you think bitcoin can fork to introduce turing complete script ops?

Full Turing complete scripting can easily be done on a sidechain, in fact it will most likely be one of the first implementations, i.e. a next gen 'ethereum' sidechain, without the Appcoin necessitating wonky economic justifactions.

BTW: Vitalik is not in charge of the treasury over at ethereum, he's just a useful starry-eyed wunder-kid genius front guy ... the truth is stranger than fiction.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1010
March 11, 2015, 02:02:56 PM
The trend seems to be tapering off, but it's still alive. Meanwhile Ethereum seems to be taking a "money doesn't matter"/"blockchains are a friggin' database technology" stance even after their huge crowdsale.
Of course he'd act that way.

When he wanted the investor money, he had to build expectations of returns.

Now that he has the money, he wants to lower expectations of returns to preemptively shrink the size of the angry mob before it forms.

Biggest legal (but unmoral) con in Bitcoin Land to date.  I will make something (or maybe not) and sell coins for BTC.  And database tech rocks -

19 year old kid might be able to code but has a long way to go to understand how the real world works.

Actually, Vitalik is smarter than all of you. All he has to do to make huge returns for Ethereum is go to the beach and do nothing with the 20k or so coins he's holding and watch them appreciate.

No, it did not take a genius to realize that a natural extension of Bitcoin is to make it Turing complete.  In fact, as soon as an engineer sees any language his next question is "how powerful is it?"  In fact, Satoshi's restraint is interesting in that context, especially his restraint on allowing the definition of other currencies.  I wonder if he felt that that feature would attract the eye of too many three letter agencies...

Its not intelligence but morality that restrains many of us. 

I don't sell (much) at the tops.  I don't want to be known as the guy who bilked lots of suckers out of $ if Bitcoin fails.  I want to be known as a guy who identified BTC's potential as a force for positive social change through economics early and invested accordingly.

I think he probably left it out due to complexity of thoroughly testing and left it up to the world to figure out.. If it has value do you think bitcoin can fork to introduce turing complete script ops?

Right and also to emphasize the rarity of btc.  And so the system doesn't smell too strongly of a method to issue unregulated securities.  But the real problem is not turning complete but getting data to run the program on.  Or more accurately getting trust free consensus on input data.  If you use an oracle to supply the data that oracle might as well just execute the algorithm.   Data like the cost of btc in usd or who won the superbowl.  I know how to do the former but not the latter.
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
March 11, 2015, 12:47:36 PM
Meanwhile, US Dollar Index is about to cross 100.
legendary
Activity: 1153
Merit: 1000
March 11, 2015, 12:25:14 PM
embedding the hash of UTXO in the block headers and retaining only the last few hundred blocks is being experimented with as a client option.

Good to know.

screw that, i want direct access to a copy of the entire blockchain at all times.  

No one will deny you that access on an open network should you wish it ... destruction of tx history has a myriad of benefits, and risks (that can be mitigated).

Yes. The power of Bitcoin is enhanced by in-built flexibility. Many nodes will always have and always want the full blockchain, many will be happier with the UTXO set secured by hashes in the main-chain, and many users will be OK with SPV only.

Just because alternative models are available, and can work concurrently with earlier implementations, does not mean everyone jumps ship to one model.

This is exactly why I like UTXO hashes embedded in blocks. It does not preclude nodes from performing full chain scans, it simply extends and provides additional mechanisms to participate in the P2P network.

With UTXO hashes you could think of bitcoin extending to 3 types of nodes, where today we only have two. They would be:

1) SPV clients - Light-clients, do not protect/valid network, protect own private keys only
2) Full nodes - Full participants on P2P network, protect and valid the current ledger only (which is all that is needed to be a node)
3) Archival nodes - Full participants on P2P network, protect and valid the full historical journal (as Marcus called it)

UTXO hashes would enable many more people to participate as P2P nodes and actively add protection to the current ledger. This does not stop several archival nodes from existing who would act as maintainers of the historical journal for prosperity and validation.

By creating this division more people/nodes can participate which improves bitcoin's security.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
March 11, 2015, 12:18:30 PM
The trend seems to be tapering off, but it's still alive. Meanwhile Ethereum seems to be taking a "money doesn't matter"/"blockchains are a friggin' database technology" stance even after their huge crowdsale.
Of course he'd act that way.

When he wanted the investor money, he had to build expectations of returns.

Now that he has the money, he wants to lower expectations of returns to preemptively shrink the size of the angry mob before it forms.

Biggest legal (but unmoral) con in Bitcoin Land to date.  I will make something (or maybe not) and sell coins for BTC.  And database tech rocks -

19 year old kid might be able to code but has a long way to go to understand how the real world works.

Actually, Vitalik is smarter than all of you. All he has to do to make huge returns for Ethereum is go to the beach and do nothing with the 20k or so coins he's holding and watch them appreciate.

No, it did not take a genius to realize that a natural extension of Bitcoin is to make it Turing complete.  In fact, as soon as an engineer sees any language his next question is "how powerful is it?"  In fact, Satoshi's restraint is interesting in that context, especially his restraint on allowing the definition of other currencies.  I wonder if he felt that that feature would attract the eye of too many three letter agencies...

Its not intelligence but morality that restrains many of us. 

I don't sell (much) at the tops.  I don't want to be known as the guy who bilked lots of suckers out of $ if Bitcoin fails.  I want to be known as a guy who identified BTC's potential as a force for positive social change through economics early and invested accordingly.

I think he probably left it out due to complexity of thoroughly testing and left it up to the world to figure out.. If it has value do you think bitcoin can fork to introduce turing complete script ops?
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
March 11, 2015, 12:16:19 PM
Stocks up with dxy hmm
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1010
March 11, 2015, 11:59:19 AM
The trend seems to be tapering off, but it's still alive. Meanwhile Ethereum seems to be taking a "money doesn't matter"/"blockchains are a friggin' database technology" stance even after their huge crowdsale.
Of course he'd act that way.

When he wanted the investor money, he had to build expectations of returns.

Now that he has the money, he wants to lower expectations of returns to preemptively shrink the size of the angry mob before it forms.

Biggest legal (but unmoral) con in Bitcoin Land to date.  I will make something (or maybe not) and sell coins for BTC.  And database tech rocks -

19 year old kid might be able to code but has a long way to go to understand how the real world works.

Actually, Vitalik is smarter than all of you. All he has to do to make huge returns for Ethereum is go to the beach and do nothing with the 20k or so coins he's holding and watch them appreciate.

No, it did not take a genius to realize that a natural extension of Bitcoin is to make it Turing complete.  In fact, as soon as an engineer sees any language his next question is "how powerful is it?"  In fact, Satoshi's restraint is interesting in that context, especially his restraint on allowing the definition of other currencies.  I wonder if he felt that that feature would attract the eye of too many three letter agencies...

Its not intelligence but morality that restrains many of us. 

I don't sell (much) at the tops.  I don't want to be known as the guy who bilked lots of suckers out of $ if Bitcoin fails.  I want to be known as a guy who identified BTC's potential as a force for positive social change through economics early and invested accordingly.
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
March 11, 2015, 11:43:08 AM
Of course he'd act that way.

When he wanted the investor money, he had to build expectations of returns.

Now that he has the money, he wants to lower expectations of returns to preemptively shrink the size of the angry mob before it forms.

Ah, the old Angry Mob ManagementTM.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
March 11, 2015, 11:27:57 AM
Unless CBs drop Gold as an asset in their vaults, it will be relevant in the future. Either the real economy will catch up with the financial economy, or the financial economy will meet the real economy or a combination), eventually.

But the waiting is the hardest part. No panic, no gold rush.

Ron Paul and others wonder just how much gold exists in that very Feds vault. 
legendary
Activity: 3122
Merit: 1538
yes
March 11, 2015, 11:25:26 AM
Unless CBs drop Gold as an asset in their vaults, it will be relevant in the future. Either the real economy will catch up with the financial economy, or the financial economy will meet the real economy (or a combination), eventually.

But the waiting is the hardest part. No panic, no gold rush.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
March 11, 2015, 11:21:27 AM
Gold really collapsing. Bitcoin UP.



Are you sure? Because losing 5% in one month is not what I call collapsing.

Well, given I made this post on 8/9/11, Gold: I Smell a Trap, I think I've earned the right to say "yeah, I'm sure".

Well, will you look at that. Nice timing. Do you still hold a single ounce of gold or are you 100% BTC in the BTC/GLD pair?

Sold all the silver and most of the gold. Still retain 2 sleeves of gold coins but that's it. Bitcoin is the future.

I keep offering to sell those 2 sleeves to all the gold bugs who stop by every once in a while claiming they're worth $30000/oz for a mere $15000/oz but not a one of them take me up on the deal.

Haha Wink

I am pretty much in the same situation. I sold most of my gold in early 2013 but rebought some in mid 2014.

Gold is still very nice to balance a portfolio of Stocks and Bonds, unlike BTC it is directly negatively correlated to those.

Actually that negative correlation is now changing to positive correlation as we enter deflation. Go back and look at the charts of the brief deflationary 2008-9. Gold and gold stocks dropped significantly along with stocks and non UST bonds. This time that correlated drop should be even greater. And gold is leading.

You are absolutely right and I took that apparent change into account when I bought the gold. But as I was going for an 10y+ investment and I still think in that timeframe it will work as a buffer on swings.

Only time will tell, but even if it is positively correlated it won't hurt me too much.

You'll only be right if Bitcoin fails. That's not looking too likely imo.

Bitcoin has all the properties of a super money that gold can only aspire to be.  That has to be on your radar.

I have plenty of BTC. Most normal investors would say I am way overinvested. So I am not too worried if BTC fails or succeeds. I will be fine either way.

Good on you
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Changing avatars is currently not possible.
March 11, 2015, 11:20:02 AM
Gold really collapsing. Bitcoin UP.



Are you sure? Because losing 5% in one month is not what I call collapsing.

Well, given I made this post on 8/9/11, Gold: I Smell a Trap, I think I've earned the right to say "yeah, I'm sure".

Well, will you look at that. Nice timing. Do you still hold a single ounce of gold or are you 100% BTC in the BTC/GLD pair?

Sold all the silver and most of the gold. Still retain 2 sleeves of gold coins but that's it. Bitcoin is the future.

I keep offering to sell those 2 sleeves to all the gold bugs who stop by every once in a while claiming they're worth $30000/oz for a mere $15000/oz but not a one of them take me up on the deal.

Haha Wink

I am pretty much in the same situation. I sold most of my gold in early 2013 but rebought some in mid 2014.

Gold is still very nice to balance a portfolio of Stocks and Bonds, unlike BTC it is directly negatively correlated to those.

Actually that negative correlation is now changing to positive correlation as we enter deflation. Go back and look at the charts of the brief deflationary 2008-9. Gold and gold stocks dropped significantly along with stocks and non UST bonds. This time that correlated drop should be even greater. And gold is leading.

You are absolutely right and I took that apparent change into account when I bought the gold. But as I was going for an 10y+ investment and I still think in that timeframe it will work as a buffer on swings.

Only time will tell, but even if it is positively correlated it won't hurt me too much.

You'll only be right if Bitcoin fails. That's not looking too likely imo.

Bitcoin has all the properties of a super money that gold can only aspire to be.  That has to be on your radar.

I have plenty of BTC. Most normal investors would say I am way overinvested. So I am not too worried if BTC fails or succeeds. I will be fine either way.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
March 11, 2015, 11:18:52 AM
Gold really collapsing. Bitcoin UP.



Are you sure? Because losing 5% in one month is not what I call collapsing.

Well, given I made this post on 8/9/11, Gold: I Smell a Trap, I think I've earned the right to say "yeah, I'm sure".

Well, will you look at that. Nice timing. Do you still hold a single ounce of gold or are you 100% BTC in the BTC/GLD pair?

Sold all the silver and most of the gold. Still retain 2 sleeves of gold coins but that's it. Bitcoin is the future.

I keep offering to sell those 2 sleeves to all the gold bugs who stop by every once in a while claiming they're worth $30000/oz for a mere $15000/oz but not a one of them take me up on the deal.

Haha Wink

I am pretty much in the same situation. I sold most of my gold in early 2013 but rebought some in mid 2014.

Gold is still very nice to balance a portfolio of Stocks and Bonds, unlike BTC it is directly negatively correlated to those.

Actually that negative correlation is now changing to positive correlation as we enter deflation. Go back and look at the charts of the brief deflationary 2008-9. Gold and gold stocks dropped significantly along with stocks and non UST bonds. This time that correlated drop should be even greater. And gold is leading.

You are absolutely right and I took that apparent change into account when I bought the gold. But as I was going for an 10y+ investment and I still think in that timeframe it will work as a buffer on swings.

Only time will tell, but even if it is positively correlated it won't hurt me too much.

You'll only be right if Bitcoin fails. That's not looking too likely imo.

Bitcoin has all the properties of a super money that gold can only aspire to be.  That has to be on your radar.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
March 11, 2015, 11:15:26 AM
The trend seems to be tapering off, but it's still alive. Meanwhile Ethereum seems to be taking a "money doesn't matter"/"blockchains are a friggin' database technology" stance even after their huge crowdsale.
Of course he'd act that way.

When he wanted the investor money, he had to build expectations of returns.

Now that he has the money, he wants to lower expectations of returns to preemptively shrink the size of the angry mob before it forms.

Biggest legal (but unmoral) con in Bitcoin Land to date.  I will make something (or maybe not) and sell coins for BTC.  And database tech rocks -

19 year old kid might be able to code but has a long way to go to understand how the real world works.

Actually, Vitalik is smarter than all of you. All he has to do to make huge returns for Ethereum is go to the beach and do nothing with the 20k or so coins he's holding and watch them appreciate.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Changing avatars is currently not possible.
March 11, 2015, 11:14:03 AM
Gold really collapsing. Bitcoin UP.



Are you sure? Because losing 5% in one month is not what I call collapsing.

Well, given I made this post on 8/9/11, Gold: I Smell a Trap, I think I've earned the right to say "yeah, I'm sure".

Well, will you look at that. Nice timing. Do you still hold a single ounce of gold or are you 100% BTC in the BTC/GLD pair?

Sold all the silver and most of the gold. Still retain 2 sleeves of gold coins but that's it. Bitcoin is the future.

I keep offering to sell those 2 sleeves to all the gold bugs who stop by every once in a while claiming they're worth $30000/oz for a mere $15000/oz but not a one of them take me up on the deal.

Haha Wink

I am pretty much in the same situation. I sold most of my gold in early 2013 but rebought some in mid 2014.

Gold is still very nice to balance a portfolio of Stocks and Bonds, unlike BTC it is directly negatively correlated to those.

Actually that negative correlation is now changing to positive correlation as we enter deflation. Go back and look at the charts of the brief deflationary 2008-9. Gold and gold stocks dropped significantly along with stocks and non UST bonds. This time that correlated drop should be even greater. And gold is leading.

You are absolutely right and I took that apparent change into account when I bought the gold. But as I was going for an 10y+ investment and I still think in that timeframe it will work as a buffer on swings.

Only time will tell, but even if it is positively correlated it won't hurt me too much.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
March 11, 2015, 11:10:11 AM
Gold really collapsing. Bitcoin UP.



Are you sure? Because losing 5% in one month is not what I call collapsing.

Well, given I made this post on 8/9/11, Gold: I Smell a Trap, I think I've earned the right to say "yeah, I'm sure".

Well, will you look at that. Nice timing. Do you still hold a single ounce of gold or are you 100% BTC in the BTC/GLD pair?

Sold all the silver and most of the gold. Still retain 2 sleeves of gold coins but that's it. Bitcoin is the future.

I keep offering to sell those 2 sleeves to all the gold bugs who stop by every once in a while claiming they're worth $30000/oz for a mere $15000/oz but not a one of them take me up on the deal.

Haha Wink

I am pretty much in the same situation. I sold most of my gold in early 2013 but rebought some in mid 2014.

Gold is still very nice to balance a portfolio of Stocks and Bonds, unlike BTC it is directly negatively correlated to those.

Actually that negative correlation is now changing to positive correlation as we enter deflation. Go back and look at the charts of the brief deflationary 2008-9. Gold and gold stocks dropped significantly along with stocks and non UST bonds. This time that correlated drop should be even greater. And gold is leading.
full member
Activity: 145
Merit: 100
March 11, 2015, 11:10:00 AM
The trend seems to be tapering off, but it's still alive. Meanwhile Ethereum seems to be taking a "money doesn't matter"/"blockchains are a friggin' database technology" stance even after their huge crowdsale.
Of course he'd act that way.

When he wanted the investor money, he had to build expectations of returns.

Now that he has the money, he wants to lower expectations of returns to preemptively shrink the size of the angry mob before it forms.

Biggest legal (but unmoral) con in Bitcoin Land to date.  I will make something (or maybe not) and sell coins for BTC.  And database tech rocks -

19 year old kid might be able to code but has a long way to go to understand how the real world works.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
March 11, 2015, 11:05:38 AM
The trend seems to be tapering off, but it's still alive. Meanwhile Ethereum seems to be taking a "money doesn't matter"/"blockchains are a friggin' database technology" stance even after their huge crowdsale.
Of course he'd act that way.

When he wanted the investor money, he had to build expectations of returns.

Now that he has the money, he wants to lower expectations of returns to preemptively shrink the size of the angry mob before it forms.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Changing avatars is currently not possible.
March 11, 2015, 11:02:04 AM
Gold really collapsing. Bitcoin UP.



Are you sure? Because losing 5% in one month is not what I call collapsing.

Well, given I made this post on 8/9/11, Gold: I Smell a Trap, I think I've earned the right to say "yeah, I'm sure".

Well, will you look at that. Nice timing. Do you still hold a single ounce of gold or are you 100% BTC in the BTC/GLD pair?

Sold all the silver and most of the gold. Still retain 2 sleeves of gold coins but that's it. Bitcoin is the future.

I keep offering to sell those 2 sleeves to all the gold bugs who stop by every once in a while claiming they're worth $30000/oz for a mere $15000/oz but not a one of them take me up on the deal.

Haha Wink

I am pretty much in the same situation. I sold most of my gold in early 2013 but rebought some in mid 2014.

Gold is still very nice to balance a portfolio of Stocks and Bonds, unlike BTC it is directly negatively correlated to those.
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
March 11, 2015, 10:58:59 AM
I really hope this is the last gasp of the appcoin model:

http://blog.factom.org/post/113341070224/coinapult-factom-announce-collaboration

Quote
Factom has selected Coinapult to be one of its partners on its asset allocation model. More details will be announced in the coming weeks, along with a breakdown of the best practices Factom will employ in its software sale. Since Coinapult can offer a wide variety of exchange integration and over the counter trading this shields the value the Factom Foundation collects from price swings associated in the market and preserves the value contributed by Factoid purchasers.

Because both the marks investors and the regulators are now so skeptical of appcoin IPOs, they now have to pretend it's a "software sale" to have any credibility at all.

The trend seems to be tapering off, but it's still alive. Meanwhile Ethereum seems to be taking a "money doesn't matter"/"blockchains are a friggin' database technology" stance even after their huge crowdsale. Here is Vitalik giving his understanding of economics, which he still maintains have nothing to do with Ethereum because he's "not designing an economic system":

http://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/2ymtqx/vitalik_your_logic_and_thought_process/

He seems to understand a few things he didn't before, but still is lost in the forest.
Jump to: