Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 521.

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: traderCJ on January 28, 2015, 11:52:20 PM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on January 28, 2015, 11:15:53 PM

"shared ledger" is only half the picture (the tally), the privately-held keys being the other (ownership) half.

It's a shared ledger that requires a private key to sign valid transactions. But it's a shared ledger nonetheless. To see the private keys as another "half" of Bitcoin muddles the issue. You'd be right if you said the other half is the protocol that governs access to the ledger.

you sound muddled, and I don't have time to explain it fully. Best, but well done it is indeed a shared ledger, glad you got that bit figured out.

traderCJ

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on January 28, 2015, 11:15:53 PM

"shared ledger" is only half the picture (the tally), the privately-held keys being the other (ownership) half.

It's a shared ledger that requires a private key to sign valid transactions. But it's a shared ledger nonetheless. To see the private keys as another "half" of Bitcoin muddles the issue. You'd be right if you said the other half is the protocol that governs access to the ledger.

flipstyle

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Quote from: Trader Steve on January 28, 2015, 11:17:27 PM

Yes, I think the likely scenario is that, as the global slow-down continues, money will flow to the dollar first since it is perceived by many as the safest asset.

Then precious metals and housing secondly, as they will always maintain 'some' intrinsic value.

Trust me, in a true SHTF scenario, NOBODY is going to want or care for bitcoin. They're going to want food, shelter, clothing, and nationally recognized currency that will be accepted anywhere with historical usage that extends back thousands of years: silver and gold.

Trader Steve

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"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on January 28, 2015, 06:27:24 PM

Quote from: Torque on January 28, 2015, 06:21:33 PM

Yeah, but you guys keep mentioning that if the worldwide stock markets tank, people will dump stocks and flock to bitcoin as a hedge (like they do gold). But if they treat bitcoin like a stock, then it will get dumped too.

Personally, I think this is the most likely scenario as well. ATM bitcoin is like a very risky commodity. Things would have to get really really ugly (like breaking some major rules thereby breaking trust in traditional systems) for bitcoin to become a 'safe haven' in case of a financial crash.
Five or ten years from now, that might be a different story.

Yes, I think the likely scenario is that, as the global slow-down continues, money will flow to the dollar first since it is perceived by many as the safest asset.

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: traderCJ on January 28, 2015, 11:03:00 PM

Quote from: zanzibar on January 28, 2015, 07:36:12 PM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on January 28, 2015, 06:27:24 PM

Quote from: Torque on January 28, 2015, 06:21:33 PM

Yeah, but you guys keep mentioning that if the worldwide stock markets tank, people will dump stocks and flock to bitcoin as a hedge (like they do gold). But if they treat bitcoin like a stock, then it will get dumped too.

Personally, I think this is the most likely scenario as well. ATM bitcoin is like a very risky commodity. Things would have to get really really ugly (like breaking some major rules thereby breaking trust in traditional systems) for bitcoin to become a 'safe haven' in case of a financial crash.
Five or ten years from now, that might be a different story.

It's difficult to treat Bitcoin like anything specifically because it's a stock, commodity, asset, currency, fuel, all in one. It can thrive in any environment. If Wall Streets starts buying, expect BTC to be in the $10k's

It's a shared ledger, so it really is none of those things. You might use it as those things, but then again I can do the same with seashells or rocks.

"shared ledger" is only half the picture (the tally), the privately-held keys being the other (ownership) half.

traderCJ

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Quote from: zanzibar on January 28, 2015, 07:36:12 PM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on January 28, 2015, 06:27:24 PM

Quote from: Torque on January 28, 2015, 06:21:33 PM

Yeah, but you guys keep mentioning that if the worldwide stock markets tank, people will dump stocks and flock to bitcoin as a hedge (like they do gold). But if they treat bitcoin like a stock, then it will get dumped too.

Personally, I think this is the most likely scenario as well. ATM bitcoin is like a very risky commodity. Things would have to get really really ugly (like breaking some major rules thereby breaking trust in traditional systems) for bitcoin to become a 'safe haven' in case of a financial crash.
Five or ten years from now, that might be a different story.

It's difficult to treat Bitcoin like anything specifically because it's a stock, commodity, asset, currency, fuel, all in one. It can thrive in any environment. If Wall Streets starts buying, expect BTC to be in the $10k's

It's a shared ledger, so it really is none of those things. You might use it as those things, but then again I can do the same with seashells or rocks.

Torque

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Quote from: zanzibar on January 28, 2015, 07:36:12 PM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on January 28, 2015, 06:27:24 PM

Quote from: Torque on January 28, 2015, 06:21:33 PM

Yeah, but you guys keep mentioning that if the worldwide stock markets tank, people will dump stocks and flock to bitcoin as a hedge (like they do gold). But if they treat bitcoin like a stock, then it will get dumped too.

Personally, I think this is the most likely scenario as well. ATM bitcoin is like a very risky commodity. Things would have to get really really ugly (like breaking some major rules thereby breaking trust in traditional systems) for bitcoin to become a 'safe haven' in case of a financial crash.
Five or ten years from now, that might be a different story.

It's difficult to treat Bitcoin like anything specifically because it's a stock, commodity, asset, currency, fuel, all in one. It can thrive in any environment. If Wall Streets starts buying, expect BTC to be in the $10k's

Average Joes don't pump BTC to $10K. First the whale pumpers do, THEN Average Joe starts buying at the higher price.

kodtycoon

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Quote from: zanzibar on January 28, 2015, 07:36:12 PM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on January 28, 2015, 06:27:24 PM

Quote from: Torque on January 28, 2015, 06:21:33 PM

Yeah, but you guys keep mentioning that if the worldwide stock markets tank, people will dump stocks and flock to bitcoin as a hedge (like they do gold). But if they treat bitcoin like a stock, then it will get dumped too.

Personally, I think this is the most likely scenario as well. ATM bitcoin is like a very risky commodity. Things would have to get really really ugly (like breaking some major rules thereby breaking trust in traditional systems) for bitcoin to become a 'safe haven' in case of a financial crash.
Five or ten years from now, that might be a different story.

It's difficult to treat Bitcoin like anything specifically because it's a stock, commodity, asset, currency, fuel, all in one. It can thrive in any environment. If Wall Streets starts buying, expect BTC to be in the $10k's

they are already pumping the shit out of it in the media.. non stop interviews, articles etc day after day the last week or two.. and all of it very positive stuff.

zanzibar

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Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on January 28, 2015, 06:27:24 PM

Quote from: Torque on January 28, 2015, 06:21:33 PM

Yeah, but you guys keep mentioning that if the worldwide stock markets tank, people will dump stocks and flock to bitcoin as a hedge (like they do gold). But if they treat bitcoin like a stock, then it will get dumped too.

Personally, I think this is the most likely scenario as well. ATM bitcoin is like a very risky commodity. Things would have to get really really ugly (like breaking some major rules thereby breaking trust in traditional systems) for bitcoin to become a 'safe haven' in case of a financial crash.
Five or ten years from now, that might be a different story.

It's difficult to treat Bitcoin like anything specifically because it's a stock, commodity, asset, currency, fuel, all in one. It can thrive in any environment. If Wall Streets starts buying, expect BTC to be in the $10k's

Spaceman_Spiff

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₪``Campaign Manager´´₪

Quote from: Torque on January 28, 2015, 06:21:33 PM

Yeah, but you guys keep mentioning that if the worldwide stock markets tank, people will dump stocks and flock to bitcoin as a hedge (like they do gold). But if they treat bitcoin like a stock, then it will get dumped too.

Personally, I think this is the most likely scenario as well. ATM bitcoin is like a very risky commodity. Things would have to get really really ugly (like breaking some major rules thereby breaking trust in traditional systems) for bitcoin to become a 'safe haven' in case of a financial crash.
Five or ten years from now, that might be a different story.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: Torque on January 28, 2015, 06:21:33 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 28, 2015, 06:18:16 PM

Quote from: zanzibar on January 28, 2015, 05:28:55 PM

Quote from: Torque on January 28, 2015, 04:25:43 PM

Quote from: zanzibar on January 28, 2015, 04:13:52 PM

Wish BTC would stop plummeting. It's being dominated by day traders.

The DOW drops on bad news, the Asian market reacts, and guess what dumps on Chinese exchanges almost simultaneously? Yep, bitcoin.

It's still being treated as a stock/commodity.

That's fine, don't mind if it's treated as a stock/commodity, as long as you can trade it on Wall Street, then we will see some real $ in BTC.

yep, keep the big picture and long term in mind.

Yeah, but you guys keep mentioning that if the worldwide stock markets tank, people will dump stocks and flock to bitcoin as a hedge (like they do gold). But if they treat bitcoin like a stock, then it will get dumped too.

maybe, no guarantees.

but too early to come to any conclusions. maybe not enough turmoil yet.

Torque

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Quote from: cypherdoc on January 28, 2015, 06:18:16 PM

Quote from: zanzibar on January 28, 2015, 05:28:55 PM

Quote from: Torque on January 28, 2015, 04:25:43 PM

Quote from: zanzibar on January 28, 2015, 04:13:52 PM

Wish BTC would stop plummeting. It's being dominated by day traders.

The DOW drops on bad news, the Asian market reacts, and guess what dumps on Chinese exchanges almost simultaneously? Yep, bitcoin.

It's still being treated as a stock/commodity.

That's fine, don't mind if it's treated as a stock/commodity, as long as you can trade it on Wall Street, then we will see some real $ in BTC.

yep, keep the big picture and long term in mind.

Yeah, but you guys keep mentioning that if the worldwide stock markets tank, people will dump stocks and flock to bitcoin as a hedge (like they do gold). But if they treat bitcoin like a stock, then it will get dumped too.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: zanzibar on January 28, 2015, 05:28:55 PM

Quote from: Torque on January 28, 2015, 04:25:43 PM

Quote from: zanzibar on January 28, 2015, 04:13:52 PM

Wish BTC would stop plummeting. It's being dominated by day traders.

The DOW drops on bad news, the Asian market reacts, and guess what dumps on Chinese exchanges almost simultaneously? Yep, bitcoin.

It's still being treated as a stock/commodity.

That's fine, don't mind if it's treated as a stock/commodity, as long as you can trade it on Wall Street, then we will see some real $ in BTC.

yep, keep the big picture and long term in mind.

zanzibar

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Quote from: Torque on January 28, 2015, 04:25:43 PM

Quote from: zanzibar on January 28, 2015, 04:13:52 PM

Wish BTC would stop plummeting. It's being dominated by day traders.

The DOW drops on bad news, the Asian market reacts, and guess what dumps on Chinese exchanges almost simultaneously? Yep, bitcoin.

It's still being treated as a stock/commodity.

That's fine, don't mind if it's treated as a stock/commodity, as long as you can trade it on Wall Street, then we will see some real $ in BTC.

thezerg

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Torque on January 28, 2015, 04:25:43 PM

It's still being treated as a stock/commodity.

- It is a commodity - Maybe in 2021 when inflation is less than 1% we can start to talk about it as a currency

No 2016 3% is very much inline with fiat... in 2021 it will be something new.

sidhujag

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usd wins today again

Torque

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Quote from: zanzibar on January 28, 2015, 04:13:52 PM

Wish BTC would stop plummeting. It's being dominated by day traders.

The DOW drops on bad news, the Asian market reacts, and guess what dumps on Chinese exchanges almost simultaneously? Yep, bitcoin.

It's still being treated as a stock/commodity.

thezerg

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Quote from: solex on January 28, 2015, 03:59:10 AM

Quote from: rocks on January 28, 2015, 03:46:40 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on January 27, 2015, 10:40:26 PM

Here's one that will blow Varoufakis tiny mind wide open.

http://aeon.co/magazine/technology/are-we-ready-for-companies-that-run-themselves/

Quote

Which vision will win out? That will depend less on the specific capacities of the technology than on the ability of governments and electorates to grasp what it is and what it means. One way or another, it looks like RoboCorp will be able to look out for itself. In the meantime, we need to get our own house in order.

sort your shit out, robocorp is coming

That's a great read, thanks. Sometimes I wonder if Satoshi's most impactful and valuable invention might turn out to be the invention of the first DAC.

Bitcoin as money is a mechanism to regain what we lost and help return to the principles of sound money that we had under the gold standard (albeit with a much better payment function).

But the invention of the first DAC enables entire new concepts that we've never had before, and can help disintermediate functions for society that have always required government or middle men before. This has potential we don't understand yet, and will probably take a long time to develop, but will be revolutionary.

I remember reading that theymos likes Iain Banks' sci-fi Culture novels. It was probably apparent to him early on that Bitcoin is a currency that would fit into that civilization. I think that DACs go to the next level with incredible potential, easily the backbone of an economy this size of the Culture.
Back on Earth, the future world economy will be transformed, and far more efficient, if DACs take off.

AFAIK DACS preexisted BTC. I learned about them in the context of open source hardware. BTC is interesting because it provides one DAC mechanism... but what it rewards is very limited (mining). Others have proposed plans like divvying up money based on source control checkins. This is distributed dev, but still centralized rewards.

zanzibar

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Wish BTC would stop plummeting. It's being dominated by day traders.

cypherdoc

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Dow -137.

Damn Fed.

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