Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 517.

kodtycoon

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Quote from: zanzibar on January 30, 2015, 11:52:29 AM

Quote from: kodtycoon on January 30, 2015, 11:44:28 AM

Quote from: zanzibar on January 30, 2015, 11:41:08 AM

Quote from: kodtycoon on January 30, 2015, 11:28:17 AM

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts. BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc.. BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money. If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million. People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.

thats how it is now. it may not be like that 5 years from now. its only a matter of time before more people start to see that bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology. you and many other bitcoiners might not see that yet, but eventually more and more will. of course it wont happen over night but it will happen.

So why not Peg to the blockchain so people can easily transition to your alt? Right now your on an island with a couple hundred other people.

you apparently seem to be on the same island Cheesy

brg444

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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: Peter R on January 30, 2015, 12:38:42 PM

Quote from: kodtycoon on January 30, 2015, 11:44:28 AM

Quote from: zanzibar on January 30, 2015, 11:41:08 AM

Quote from: kodtycoon on January 30, 2015, 11:28:17 AM

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts. BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc.. BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money. If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million. People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.

thats how it is now. it may not be like that 5 years from now. its only a matter of time before more people start to see that bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology. you and many other bitcoiners might not see that yet, but eventually more and more will. of course it wont happen over night but it will happen.

Remember that "Bitcoin" is two things: it's a protocol (technology) and it's a ledger (distribution of wealth across a user base). Even if you subscribe to the thesis that "bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology" and will eventually be replaced (which I don't), you still haven't provided an argument that Bitcoin the ledger will be replaced at the same time. Given the strong lock-in effects associated with networks, I think a stronger argument can be made that bitcoin holders would retain their wealth should a genuinely superior cryptocurrency technology become available. This could be accomplished using sidechains or spinoffs.

Exactly.

It is my impression that the distribution of bitcoins over the years was such a unique, organic process that it cannot be replicated by whatever new crypto comes along.

The "fairness" of the distribution being such a key aspect to the establishement of any currency/money, the only chance for a new protocol to be adopted is if it recognizes Bitcoin's current ledger as the only equitable option and recognizes each owners' share of THE ledger

Peter R

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Quote from: kodtycoon on January 30, 2015, 11:44:28 AM

Quote from: zanzibar on January 30, 2015, 11:41:08 AM

Quote from: kodtycoon on January 30, 2015, 11:28:17 AM

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts. BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc.. BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money. If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million. People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.

thats how it is now. it may not be like that 5 years from now. its only a matter of time before more people start to see that bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology. you and many other bitcoiners might not see that yet, but eventually more and more will. of course it wont happen over night but it will happen.

Remember that "Bitcoin" is two things: it's a protocol (technology) and it's a ledger (distribution of wealth across a user base). Even if you subscribe to the thesis that "bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology" and will eventually be replaced (which I don't), you still haven't provided an argument that Bitcoin the ledger will be replaced at the same time. Given the strong lock-in effects associated with networks, I think a stronger argument can be made that bitcoin holders would retain their wealth should a genuinely superior cryptocurrency technology become available. This could be accomplished using sidechains or spinoffs.

zanzibar

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Quote from: kodtycoon on January 30, 2015, 11:44:28 AM

Quote from: zanzibar on January 30, 2015, 11:41:08 AM

Quote from: kodtycoon on January 30, 2015, 11:28:17 AM

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts. BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc.. BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money. If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million. People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.

thats how it is now. it may not be like that 5 years from now. its only a matter of time before more people start to see that bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology. you and many other bitcoiners might not see that yet, but eventually more and more will. of course it wont happen over night but it will happen.

So why not Peg to the blockchain so people can easily transition to your alt? Right now your on an island with a couple hundred other people.

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: kodtycoon on January 30, 2015, 11:44:28 AM

Quote from: zanzibar on January 30, 2015, 11:41:08 AM

Quote from: kodtycoon on January 30, 2015, 11:28:17 AM

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts. BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc.. BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money. If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million. People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.

thats how it is now. it may not be like that 5 years from now. its only a matter of time before more people start to see that bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology. you and many other bitcoiners might not see that yet, but eventually more and more will. of course it wont happen over night but it will happen.

outdated how exactly?

what crypto out there has proven to be better, not just on paper?

kodtycoon

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Quote from: zanzibar on January 30, 2015, 11:41:08 AM

Quote from: kodtycoon on January 30, 2015, 11:28:17 AM

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts. BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc.. BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money. If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million. People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.

thats how it is now. it may not be like that 5 years from now. its only a matter of time before more people start to see that bitcoin is outdated in terms of cryptocurrency technology. you and many other bitcoiners might not see that yet, but eventually more and more will. of course it wont happen over night but it will happen.

zanzibar

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Activity: 715

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Quote from: kodtycoon on January 30, 2015, 11:28:17 AM

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

This way of thinking will lead to the end of Alts. BTC is the entry for all new users, then they discover alts, etc.. BTC is attracting 99% of real world investment money. If you pegged an Alt to BTC, you just increased your user base by several million. People looks at Alts as a way to make more BTC, plain and simple.

kodtycoon

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Quote from: cypherdoc on January 30, 2015, 11:20:06 AM

Quote from: zanzibar on January 30, 2015, 11:13:15 AM

Quote from: tvbcof on January 30, 2015, 12:21:20 AM

It would be a no-brainer to just wait a quarter or two for sidechains then commission Blockstream to help with design. Alt's are history though I'm sure there will still be a few lingering dead-ender scams. Any alt with at least semi-pure motives would be delighted to switch to a sidechain backing.

I can see all Alt's pegging to BTC via sidechains, allow x-chain transactions, could be a great thing (despite the downfalls which cypher has eluded to).

the only great thing about it is that the alts will be allowed to siphon all the value out of the Bitcoin MC. great for alt devs and investors, not for Bitcoin holders.

tbh, i think the new wave of alt coins wouldnt even want to be pegged to btc.. the new 2.0 ones see btc as an archaic relic in the crypto currency space. why tie a lambo to a horse? just doesnt make sense for the few(very few) that actually have a bright future.

zanzibar

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Quote from: cypherdoc on January 30, 2015, 11:20:06 AM

the only great thing about it is that the alts will be allowed to siphon all the value out of the Bitcoin MC. great for alt devs and investors, not for Bitcoin holders.

I don't necessarily agree, I believe Bitcoin will remain king, people will treat Bitcoin as the "central bank", where they hold their savings and assets, plus it will bring incredible functionality to Bitcoin. Think about a killer sidechain feature that brings in 1 million new users, that is a good thing. We are far too small of a user base to think about limiting options, and I believe sidechains could bring in a lot of new people, which is what we need.

I know it's a really tired argument and I agree with a lot of things you say, not trying to ignite another debate.

cypherdoc

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i thought nat gas was the next great bull mkt putting the US on top of the energy pyramid?

cypherdoc

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the great sucking sound of the huge black hole of shit continues apace:

cypherdoc

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Quote from: zanzibar on January 30, 2015, 11:13:15 AM

Quote from: tvbcof on January 30, 2015, 12:21:20 AM

It would be a no-brainer to just wait a quarter or two for sidechains then commission Blockstream to help with design. Alt's are history though I'm sure there will still be a few lingering dead-ender scams. Any alt with at least semi-pure motives would be delighted to switch to a sidechain backing.

I can see all Alt's pegging to BTC via sidechains, allow x-chain transactions, could be a great thing (despite the downfalls which cypher has eluded to).

the only great thing about it is that the alts will be allowed to siphon all the value out of the Bitcoin MC. great for alt devs and investors, not for Bitcoin holders.

zanzibar

hero member

Activity: 715

Merit: 500

Quote from: tvbcof on January 30, 2015, 12:21:20 AM

It would be a no-brainer to just wait a quarter or two for sidechains then commission Blockstream to help with design. Alt's are history though I'm sure there will still be a few lingering dead-ender scams. Any alt with at least semi-pure motives would be delighted to switch to a sidechain backing.

I can see all Alt's pegging to BTC via sidechains, allow x-chain transactions, could be a great thing (despite the downfalls which cypher has eluded to).

sickpig

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Just for the sake of being OT

2nd Workshop on Bitcoin Research is a very interesting event organized at "Financial Cryptography and Data Security 2015" conference.

And more to the point the proceedings is freely available, really interesting stuff, just to name a few talks:

On the Malleability of Bitcoin Transactions
Trends, Tips, Tolls: A Longitudinal Study of Bitcoin Transaction Fees
Privacy-Enhancing Overlays in Bitcoin

@zooko is even sharing his workshop minutes on twitter.

thezerg

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Quote from: cypherdoc on January 29, 2015, 11:41:27 AM

this is trouble; for the Europeans and major lenders of Greek debt:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-29/alexis-tsipras-open-letter-germany-what-you-were-never-told-about-greece

note how some leaders actually think like we think.

Wow he's so far "left" he's come full circle and is on the right. No more bailouts. Just declare bankruptcy and move on

tvbcof

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Quote from: lunarboy on January 29, 2015, 11:15:47 PM

Pretty disappointed Reddit seems to be abandoning it's cryptocurrency plans. Angry

https://twitter.com/ryanxcharles/status/560922573769170944

Quote

I was hired as cryptocurency engineer in September, for which I left my job at BitPay. I was won-over by the then-CEO Yishan, who had an awesome vision for the future of reddit, including cryptocurrency as the financial system of the internet city that is reddit. However, Yishan suddenly and unexpectedly resigned his position a month or two later, probably due to exhaustion. This was in the midst of great existing turmoil at the company, such as moving the entire, formerly-remote company to SF, raising a new round of $50 million

probably those silly SEC folk again making things difficult Huh

It would be a no-brainer to just wait a quarter or two for sidechains then commission Blockstream to help with design. Alt's are history though I'm sure there will still be a few lingering dead-ender scams. Any alt with at least semi-pure motives would be delighted to switch to a sidechain backing.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: lunarboy on January 29, 2015, 11:15:47 PM

Pretty disappointed Reddit seems to be abandoning it's cryptocurrency plans. Angry

https://twitter.com/ryanxcharles/status/560922573769170944

Quote

I was hired as cryptocurency engineer in September, for which I left my job at BitPay. I was won-over by the then-CEO Yishan, who had an awesome vision for the future of reddit, including cryptocurrency as the financial system of the internet city that is reddit. However, Yishan suddenly and unexpectedly resigned his position a month or two later, probably due to exhaustion. This was in the midst of great existing turmoil at the company, such as moving the entire, formerly-remote company to SF, raising a new round of $50 million

probably those silly SEC folk again making things difficult Huh

why would they want to go up against Bitcoin as an altcoin anyway? needless pain.

let 'em just accept Bitcoin pmts. that's all they need to do.

lunarboy

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Pretty disappointed Reddit seems to be abandoning it's cryptocurrency plans. Angry

https://twitter.com/ryanxcharles/status/560922573769170944

Quote

I was hired as cryptocurency engineer in September, for which I left my job at BitPay. I was won-over by the then-CEO Yishan, who had an awesome vision for the future of reddit, including cryptocurrency as the financial system of the internet city that is reddit. However, Yishan suddenly and unexpectedly resigned his position a month or two later, probably due to exhaustion. This was in the midst of great existing turmoil at the company, such as moving the entire, formerly-remote company to SF, raising a new round of $50 million

probably those silly SEC folk again making things difficult Huh

cypherdoc

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Quote from: cypherdoc on January 29, 2015, 01:22:45 PM

Wtf is this? Listen to this interview of Tim Swanson. At 53 min, he says he talked to gmax about "Smart property" whereby mining manufacturers, with the assistance of core devs (sounds like Blockstream core devs) would build in miner "kill switches" in the event they were found to be attacking SC's. THAT is a stupid, ridiculous, un-open source idea. Supposedly, they are keeping it hush hush.

https://epicenterbitcoin.com/

ok, just got off Skype with vcorem, founder of Spondoolies.

i'm not sure which i'm more relieved by; that gmax didn't add another techno commie maneuver to his resume or that Tim Swanson did add another anti-Bitcoin douchbag red herring rumor to his resume.

apparently, Tim has misunderstood what Spondoolies wants to try and implement; an RTL logic that would lock an ASIC miner to a particular cloud mining customer up to a specific block height thus preventing fraud in cloud mining contracts. that sounds like a reasonable thing to do. it's NOT a kill switch like Tim was blathering on about. what an idiot.

sigh. what we have to endure.

smooth

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Quote from: jmw74 on January 29, 2015, 07:56:16 PM

Quote from: smooth on January 29, 2015, 05:36:37 PM

Quote from: jaredboice on January 29, 2015, 02:53:19 PM

I've heard it said both ways....good money drives out bad. Bad money drives out good. However you say it, it just means you're not going to spend something if you think it's going to appreciate in value. It doesn't get much simpler than that

That doesn't work. For a transaction to occur, buyer and seller must agree on the terms. If the buyer won't spend his money because he thinks it will appreciate, then the seller won't accept money he expects to depreciate. They have to meet in the middle somewhere.

They do that with a thing called "price".

Exactly. At which point the buyer will be willing to spend "better" money or the seller will be willing to accept "worse" money, or both.

So the bad doesn't drive out the good after all, in any meaningful sense that applies here.

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 517. (Read 2032289 times)