Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 654. (Read 2032266 times)

let your imagination run free, young Jedi.

scoping a few rock samples off the face of an asteroid  !=  mining

i used to think asteroid mining for gold was a joke until Philae:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/11/nasa-investigating-asteroid-mining/

Anyone who gets hung up on notions of "intrinsic value" shouldn't be talking about money or economics. It's nuts that Citi's Chief Economist has these hang-ups. While it's nice that he's at least realized gold doesn't have some will-always-be-super-valuable status, he hasn't yet realized that the concept of intrinsic value is just a weird, very limiting, term for a specific type of demand. How he can think about economics every day and not come to this realization is beyond me.

Of course gold will exist in 1000 years. The thing is, it'll just be worth whatever it's industrial-use demand yields, since it's usefulness as money had terminated 1043 years prior (really ~1200years, but I'll give it some leeway).


As to Bitcoin, it'll be interesting to see how the ledger-state is transferred from system to system.

yes it will.

it might not look exactly like it does today but its essence will be with us.

Will you?

Gold will be here in another 1000 years will bitcoin be here then?

This is the Chief Economist of Citibank panicking that their huge naked short position on paper gold could be a mistake. 

He just sold any credibility that he had with this.  He says:  Gold has no intrinsic value (like bitcoin), and that the Swiss Central Bank should instead buy derivatives and ETFs...

He is a tool, and anyone that follows his advice is a fool.

I do see a reason to buy the ETFs and derivatives though, when Citi and the rest have to unwind their positions, being leveraged on the right side of that trade will be worth a lot, but since you and I don't know when that is going to happen, why buy the paper with its time-costs?

Stick to bitcoin, and the PM phys.  Hodl a balanced portfolio of those and then when BTC surges, you can re-balance a little, if you like.

if Citi's William Buiter can think of Bitcoin as gold, why can't we?  this is THE opportunity we cannot afford NOT to seize going forward:

"Gold as an asset is equivalent to shiny bitcoin," he wrote in his note to clients.

http://www.coindesk.com/citi-chief-economist-bitcoin-closest-commodity-gold/

yes, free gas for all!:

hope yall are shorting crude oil...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-27/oil-prices-collapse-after-opec-keeps-oil-production-unchanged

Gox 'found' 200k coins iirc. I suppose they are in the hands of liquidators. 

Things might get much more interesting. The Swiss Gold is a most newsworthy event (and bitcoins behaviour post result). If the Swiss declare 20% must be kept as gold, will others follow suit? What would be the implications for the CHF? And if the referendum is voted 'no', how will gold react, will this affect the gold/btc relationship (in line with the theme of this thread).

The other movements I mentioned are signs that the currency wars are continuing, a positive for btc.

Gox still has coins ?  you mean the liquidators

It might have been a interesting few weeks but really you aint seen nothing yet, this all rates as quiet compared to what should really qualify as big news.  Something like swiss backing their currency with gold should make for a 50 dollar rise pretty instantly and over weeks leading back to 1600 possibly.   Thats where I start to say ok this is interesting and I would like to see how BTC compares to large dynamic changes like that.

Japan going into recession while stoking inflation mindlessly with repetitive QE doesnt really qualify, to some this is normal.   Abe failing reelection would be news, the rise of his opposite would be worth noting.  I do expect big things like yen being refused at some point, to say so now is ridiculous but that would be news for sure

Interesting few weeks.

This anomaly, the BoJ again buying in (and going all-in), China dropping rates, declining sentiment indicators, AUD dropping on hint of a rate cut.

Maybe the facade has lifted.

btc has had a bit of a bump and now news that Kraken may serve as the conduit to distribute Gox's (diminishing) coins.

Even Bitcoin can't do that trick.

Gold? UP.

None of what you describe here, and want to happen, will mean very much if Bitcoin is not widely used.
What separates Bitcoin from all the other alts is its larger ecosystem, the network effect of many more miners, users, holders and merchants.

Allowing the transaction throughput to be crippled is the single most damaging community action that could be taken against the network, worse even than a 51% attack. At the current rate of growth this will occur in 2015. None of the sidechains, treechains or any other load balancing solution will be fully deployed, even if they are solutions to volume growth, (rather than just 2.0 applications).  Further, global bandwidth is improving at 50% per year, so the existing 1MB is not just a fixed limit but a contracting one relative to the prevailing level of technology which Bitcoin employs.

We were made a variety of conflicting 'promises' by a variety of people.  Chief among these 'decentralization'.  Various less informed people probably honestly promulgated the myth that it would be a nearly free exchange medium for the masses.

I don't know about you, but I immediately spotted the scaling issues and tradeoffs that would need to be made.  I knew that some promises would be broken simply by applying a little bit of logic.

I hope that the promise which is broken is the notion that Bitcoin is to become the native layer upon which all human economic interaction is carried.  Although I think it would be ultra-cool, it will absolutely destroy other aspects of the solution that are more important to me.  Even getting 0.001% to that lofty goal would kill Bitcoin in the ways that I feel give it it's true strength.

So, why even make baby steps toward something which is not tenable?  The ONLY thing which can be accomplished is to ruin what is otherwise a solution with huge potential.

We need layers which allow Bitcoin to reach it's ultimate potential as a truly revolutionary development.  I can think of nothing more approprate for this than sidechains.

---

I actually love the idea of 'treechains', but that is simply not tenable as a core at this point.  Hopefully they can be proven on a sidechain.  Really one of the most legitimate arguments against 'sidechains' is that they could foster developments which make the Bitcoin core seem so inadequate that there is a strong incentive to simply deprecate it.  I'm not all that concerned that this will happen, and if it did it is likely that value would be imported from Bitcoin anyway due to it's valuations created by it's strong network effect.

Cypher I think you'll enjoy this one:

http://joel.mn/post/103546215249/the-blockchain-application-stack

:-)