Author

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 915. (Read 2032266 times)

legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1004
September 28, 2014, 09:18:19 PM
...Don't know what more to say


You could respond to this:


What are we at Yale?
I'd really like a well reasoned answer to this:-\

No, you don't want a well-reasoned answer.  A person that genuinely wanted a response to those points would have started by reading the 100+ responses that that comment got when it was posted on Reddit 8 hours ago.  If none of the 100+ responses on Reddit really answered things for you, and you then wanted to get the opinion of some of the thoughtful minds in this thread, you'd have made it clear that those weren't your words (by citing the source) and you would have explained how the various nuanced arguments already posted on Reddit were not "well reasoned" in your opinion.  If you had done this, I'm sure you would have received thoughtful responses in return.  

Instead you spammed that obviously-plagiarized comment here and on the Wall Observer thread, without giving any contextual information, making it clear that you're not interested in genuinely learning.  



...because I was considering spending 10-20 valuable minutes answering your questions point by point (even though it's been done ad nauseam over the years, in this thread and others). Thank you, Peter R, for pointing out the cross post.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
September 28, 2014, 09:14:18 PM
...
he/they cut/paste posting the same shit on r/bitcoin so I'm calling troll on this guy (or team?)

seems like last time they used the cult meme talking point ... this time around it is "bitcoin has no perceptible benefits" and "early adopters are MLM (multi-level marketing)"

Who are these hired guns working for?

The Gubirmint?
Teh Banksters?
Our Beneficent Reptilian Overlords(long may They reign!)??
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 28, 2014, 09:12:27 PM
Don't know what more to say

that's b/c you're incapable of making your own intellectual arguments.

you could just copy and paste more posts.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 28, 2014, 09:09:48 PM
Cypherdoc is an admitted paid shill of HashFast.
The people who listened to him in the HasFast thread lost serious coin.
The people who listen to him now should stop immediately and seek institutionalization.
A safe, controlled setting where they will no longer be a danger to themselves or society, to be studied by dedicated psychiatric professionals.
Perhaps even partially cured with the aid of powerful modern psychotropics and/or daring and innovative surgical procedures.

and more ppl who listened to me since 2011 to buy Bitcoin have made serious money.

i've already said many times the HF endorsement was a bad one.  it was for Batch #1 only and i've not been involved for over 10 mo now. none of their poor decisions involved me and i had no control over their internal actions.  nice try on attempting to make it seem like it's all my fault while tying that debacle to Bitcoin.

but given your lack of intellectual arguments about why ppl should avoid Bitcoin, you're not really interested in the truth, are you?

Re. your shilling for HasFast:  You did it.  At best, your judgement was atrocious.  More likely, it was a cynical mercenary act.
Those who listened to you lost money.
Those who listened to me didn't.

Those who still listen to your pap are imbeciles.  I'm being blunt because I have no illusions about helping them or making them see clearly.  Lost cause.

lol, still insisting on bringing up old news.  and what's this about listening to you?  links, please.

you can keep trying to tie that incident to the future of Bitcoin but realize how stupid it makes you look.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
September 28, 2014, 09:09:30 PM
like i said earlier, i already shredded one of their team...

Such humble Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 28, 2014, 09:06:54 PM
like i said earlier, i already shredded one of their team, /u/Creepedbtc, who couldn't and wouldn't shed any light on his supposed text he received from his drug dealer.  he ran from that Reddit thread like dog with his tail btwn his legs.

every tag team has a weak link.

I read that thread. Kind of thought you came off a little paranoid there

the boy, /u/Creepedbtc, ran off like a little child and shut up faster than a clam once challenged.  and once i pointed it out, everyone else came to the same conclusion, idiot.  look at all the downvotes he got and his thread got shoved down out of sight.

pure fail, like you.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
September 28, 2014, 09:06:09 PM
Cypherdoc is an admitted paid shill of HashFast.
The people who listened to him in the HasFast thread lost serious coin.
The people who listen to him now should stop immediately and seek institutionalization.
A safe, controlled setting where they will no longer be a danger to themselves or society, to be studied by dedicated psychiatric professionals.
Perhaps even partially cured with the aid of powerful modern psychotropics and/or daring and innovative surgical procedures.

and more ppl who listened to me since 2011 to buy Bitcoin have made serious money.

i've already said many times the HF endorsement was a bad one.  it was for Batch #1 only and i've not been involved for over 10 mo now. none of their poor decisions involved me and i had no control over their internal actions.  nice try on attempting to make it seem like it's all my fault while tying that debacle to Bitcoin.

but given your lack of intellectual arguments about why ppl should avoid Bitcoin, you're not really interested in the truth, are you?

Re. your shilling for HasFast:  You did it.  At best, your judgement was atrocious.  More likely, it was a cynical mercenary act.
Those who listened to you lost money.
Those who listened to me didn't.

Those who still listen to your pap are imbeciles.  I'm being blunt because I have no illusions about helping them or making them see clearly.  Lost cause.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 28, 2014, 09:04:36 PM
The elephant in the room: consumers have almost no incentive to use bitcoin.
The common talking points are:
Low fees - The consumers pay no fees while using a credit card. They actually get rewards points back.
Privacy - As evidenced by a recent post, bitcoin offers little privacy out of the box. You need to go through hoops to achieve privacy. People who care enough to go through these hoops have better alternatives (like cash!), which are more foolproof.
Being your own bank - Few people want to take the risks associated with being a bank. It is more of a headache than a plus.
No consumer protection - No need to elaborate.
Distrust of the monetary policy - The volatility of bitcoin makes it useless as a store of value, and there are better and more reliable options to store your wealth. Few people buy into the tinfoil-hattery that the USD is about to crash.
There is simply no pragmatic answer to "Why should I buy bitcoin?"

he/they cut/paste posting the same shit on r/bitcoin so I'm calling troll on this guy (or team?)

seems like last time they used the cult meme talking point ... this time around it is "bitcoin has no perceptible benefits" and "early adopters are MLM (multi-level marketing)"

You really think a team of trolls could effect the price of bitcoin? We are talking hundreds of millions of dollars. What fantasy am I in??

the same fantasy that exists in your own mind.  along with the one that pays you to hang out in threads like these trolling for $5/hr when you could be home with your family or friends doing something worthwhile.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
September 28, 2014, 09:03:45 PM
like i said earlier, i already shredded one of their team, /u/Creepedbtc, who couldn't and wouldn't shed any light on his supposed text he received from his drug dealer.  he ran from that Reddit thread like dog with his tail btwn his legs.

every tag team has a weak link.

I read that thread. Kind of thought you came off a little paranoid there
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 28, 2014, 09:02:26 PM
like i said earlier, i already shredded one of their team, /u/Creepedbtc, who couldn't and wouldn't shed any light on his supposed text he received from his drug dealer.  he ran from that Reddit thread like dog with his tail btwn his legs.

every tag team has a weak link.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
September 28, 2014, 08:59:31 PM
The elephant in the room: consumers have almost no incentive to use bitcoin.
The common talking points are:
Low fees - The consumers pay no fees while using a credit card. They actually get rewards points back.
Privacy - As evidenced by a recent post, bitcoin offers little privacy out of the box. You need to go through hoops to achieve privacy. People who care enough to go through these hoops have better alternatives (like cash!), which are more foolproof.
Being your own bank - Few people want to take the risks associated with being a bank. It is more of a headache than a plus.
No consumer protection - No need to elaborate.
Distrust of the monetary policy - The volatility of bitcoin makes it useless as a store of value, and there are better and more reliable options to store your wealth. Few people buy into the tinfoil-hattery that the USD is about to crash.
There is simply no pragmatic answer to "Why should I buy bitcoin?"

he/they cut/paste posting the same shit on r/bitcoin so I'm calling troll on this guy (or team?)

seems like last time they used the cult meme talking point ... this time around it is "bitcoin has no perceptible benefits" and "early adopters are MLM (multi-level marketing)"
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
September 28, 2014, 08:59:15 PM
The elephant in the room: consumers have almost no incentive to use bitcoin.
The common talking points are:
Low fees - The consumers pay no fees while using a credit card. They actually get rewards points back.
Privacy - As evidenced by a recent post, bitcoin offers little privacy out of the box. You need to go through hoops to achieve privacy. People who care enough to go through these hoops have better alternatives (like cash!), which are more foolproof.
Being your own bank - Few people want to take the risks associated with being a bank. It is more of a headache than a plus.
No consumer protection - No need to elaborate.
Distrust of the monetary policy - The volatility of bitcoin makes it useless as a store of value, and there are better and more reliable options to store your wealth. Few people buy into the tinfoil-hattery that the USD is about to crash.
There is simply no pragmatic answer to "Why should I buy bitcoin?"

Cite your sources.




I'd really like a well reasoned answer to this:-\

And yet, consumers do transact.
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=all&daysAverageString=7

Seems there is a difference between theory and practice.
The block chain never lies.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 28, 2014, 08:56:47 PM
What is a cultist?
unflinching devotion;
unquestioning faith in ultimate success;
to recruit new members;
oh...and we'd like all your money (but you won't be needing it since we have 'walls of text' explaining how corrupt the current system is).

I'm starting to see the parallels.


you should go back to burying your face in your palms.  i was wrong.  you are a troll.

once again, no intellectual arguments of your own to slander Bitcoin; simple cut and pastes from your heroes (or maybe your bosses?)

btw, no one's forcing you to be in this thread.  why are you wasting your time here?
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 28, 2014, 08:50:06 PM
Cypherdoc is an admitted paid shill of HashFast.
The people who listened to him in the HasFast thread lost serious coin.
The people who listen to him now should stop immediately and seek institutionalization.
A safe, controlled setting where they will no longer be a danger to themselves or society, to be studied by dedicated psychiatric professionals.
Perhaps even partially cured with the aid of powerful modern psychotropics and/or daring and innovative surgical procedures.

and more ppl who listened to me since 2011 to buy Bitcoin have made serious money.

old news dude. i've already said many times the HF endorsement was a bad one.  it was for Batch #1 only and i've not been involved for over 10 mo now. none of their poor decisions involved me and i had no control over their internal actions.  nice try on attempting to make it seem like it's all my fault while tying that debacle to Bitcoin.

but given your lack of intellectual arguments about why ppl should avoid Bitcoin, you're not really interested in the truth, are you?
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 28, 2014, 08:42:45 PM
I've said it ten times the past month....this "situation" in mining does not lead to centralization, exactly the opposite.

You know when you guys keep harping about "economy of scale" well that doesn't always mean what you obviously think it means.

You need to rethink the difference between a hobbyist miner with a couple of TH running in their basement vs a commercial building being supplied with a 0.5MW supply and transformer, and wiring performed by electricians, and CSA/UL/CE inspections, and liability insurance, and cooling the building doubling your electrical draw....and a myriad of other expenses that little children like yourselves have never encountered because you have never leased a commercial building to set up a business and you have no idea of the intricacies of business dealings at that scale.

I can't see how they are doing it when I consider the logistics and costs....certainly not with the efficiencies we have today at sub $400 prices.
 



are you speaking from experience?

i can relate as a 2TH hobbyist.  i traded simple services for my electrician to wire in eight special 240W outlets (i'm oversupplied) with its own subpanel to the 2nd flr room of a building i already own.  i put the miners up next to an open sliding door with a balcony and lined up fans pointing outwards up against the screen door.  i had one of my workers install a $200 external barred gate like this for security.  no other cooling:



the room is exposed to the open air 24/7 all year long.  no licenses, insurance or any other special expenses except for electricity.  i had additional Cat5/6 wiring run thru the walls to an external closet connecting the server with the asics to an existing internet connection used for other purposes.  throw in a large roller rack.

total cost of setup and other ancillary materials, maybe $400.  it pays to be small and nimble.


Yes, exactly...your costs benefit from the economy of scale I'm talking about.
Small and nimble is what works in these days of high mining diff.

Now consider if you want to lease a commercial building of 50-100k sq ft.
It costs $3-5 per square foot for that alone....on a minimum one year term.
To lease the building you need to tell the landlord and the municpality has to approve what the use will be...as soon as you tell them a half dozen riders get dropped onto the lease.
Liability insurance in the millions...usually 10 million for a building like that
Transformer installation....ask yourself what a transformer capable of 0.5MW costs to install
Electrical approvals, all electricals installed by licensed electricians, and the panels signed off by same
Here's the kicker....in order to install electronics such as these in an industrial setting you are never going to get away with plugging in equipment that has no CSA/UL/CE approval. Certainly not 1000 units of electronic equipment that is not approved for your country...now you are into electrical approvals/hipot tests at a minimum...better hope the company you bought them from designed these properly
Do it illegally? No insurance will cover you. And your local hydro department will never turn on the mains without it.
Now think about racking
Now think about networking costs and cabling costs for the units when the runs are 10x longer
power supplies....most mining hardware requires your own
fire prevention/suppression? How are you going to handle that?
cooling? How many tons of AC? Does it have to be installed?
internet bandwidth? You are not running this off a single DSL/Cable modem connection


Already own a 2-3 million dollar building you want to use for mining?...great, you can strip away a few of those requirements but most are still applicable. And now you have a 2-3 million dollar asset not generating leasing revenue...









this is actually a very important point you're bringing up, especially now with difficulty so high.

early on back in 2011, i could see from my limited GPU mining that anything on scale would come at an enormous cost of money and time.  i made the choice back then to hoover up coins on all dips as it seemed the simplest, cheapest, and easiest way to accumulate.  mining is just another way of accumulating; but way more labor intensive.

as a fixed supply currency, i figured the price could only go up, as long as their was no security or source code bug.  i figured out myself that the economics were sound based on my investing history in the stock mkt and with pm's.  riding gold up from 550 to 1923 gave me a good perspective on what a sound form of money can do given our inflationary Fed and the politics of a over leveraged economy.  investing thru the crashes of the 2000 & 2008 bubble/crash helped as well.

bottom line is my perspective has not changed one bit.  imo, we're just experiencing another major dip.  in fact, this one might be manipulated, as much as i've resisted saying that in the past. it's now very possible with the new derivatives exchanges we have.

so yes, i'm buying this dip too and i think those who were considering getting into mining, and probably even those into mining currently, are doing the math and will decide it's simply much cheaper and easier to buy the coins directly. 
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
September 28, 2014, 08:42:36 PM
What are we at Yale?
I'd really like a well reasoned answer to this:-\

No, you don't want a well-reasoned answer.  A person that genuinely wanted a response to those points would have started by reading the 100+ responses that that comment got when it was posted on Reddit 8 hours ago.  If none of the 100+ responses on Reddit really answered things for you, and you then wanted to get the opinion of some of the thoughtful minds in this thread, you'd have made it clear that those weren't your words (by citing the source) and you would have explained how the various nuanced arguments already posted on Reddit were not "well reasoned" in your opinion.  If you had done this, I'm sure you would have received thoughtful responses in return.  

Instead you spammed that obviously-plagiarized comment here and on the Wall Observer thread, without giving any contextual information, making it clear that you're not interested in genuinely learning.  
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
September 28, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
...it pays to be small and nimble.

Pays even better when you're a HashFast shill, no?

It is a bit cultish in here, no?

A bit loony in here.

I've said it ten times the past month....this "situation" in mining does not lead to centralization, exactly the opposite.

You know when you guys keep harping about "economy of scale" well that doesn't always mean what you obviously think it means.

You need to rethink the difference between a hobbyist miner with a couple of TH running in their basement vs a commercial building being supplied with a 0.5MW supply and transformer, and wiring performed by electricians, and CSA/UL/CE inspections, and liability insurance, and cooling the building doubling your electrical draw....and a myriad of other expenses that little children like yourselves have never encountered because you have never leased a commercial building to set up a business and you have no idea of the intricacies of business dealings at that scale...

Yeah, these d00ds pay for "wiring performed by electricians, and CSA/UL/CE inspections, and liability insurance, and cooling the building doubling your electrical draw."

Story ans more pics:  http://bitcoinagile.com/81AF6/inside-a-chinese-bitcoin-mine-the-coinsman_stream

That's a typical Chinese commercial mine.

Another one:


Story and more pics:  http://izismile.com/2014/09/08/the_largest_bitcoin_farm_in_the_world_17_pics.html

Don't even need to mention the KNC hangar proliferation.  Here's just a part of ONE of their farms:


An average hobby miner mines at a loss.  Go to any manufacturer's thread to taste their tears.
The best way to make money in mining is (not necessarily in that order):
1.  Sell pre-orders you'll never deliver.
2.  Sell pre-orders you'll deliver once they're no longer profitable.
3.  Sell stock in your nonexistent ASIC company/mining co.
4.  Sell "mining bonds/contracts" to idiots who can't math.

Commercial farms are either manufacturers themselves, e.g. KNC, or get their gear at tremendous discounts/electricity at industrial rates.  No hobbyist can compete with that, even if power is free because mom's basement.

Cypherdoc is an admitted paid shill of HashFast.
The people who listened to him in the HasFast thread lost serious coin.
The people who listen to him now should stop immediately and seek institutionalization.
A safe, controlled setting where they will no longer be a danger to themselves or society, to be studied by dedicated psychiatric professionals.
Perhaps even partially cured with the aid of powerful modern psychotropics and/or daring and innovative surgical procedures.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
September 28, 2014, 08:38:24 PM
If you really think one guy can troll down the price of bitcoin when 70% of trades are in Yuan and nobody reads trollboxes...then I'm starting to think Buttcoin may have been on to something. You are delusional. Sorry
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
September 28, 2014, 08:25:28 PM
I've said it ten times the past month....this "situation" in mining does not lead to centralization, exactly the opposite.

You know when you guys keep harping about "economy of scale" well that doesn't always mean what you obviously think it means.

You need to rethink the difference between a hobbyist miner with a couple of TH running in their basement vs a commercial building being supplied with a 0.5MW supply and transformer, and wiring performed by electricians, and CSA/UL/CE inspections, and liability insurance, and cooling the building doubling your electrical draw....and a myriad of other expenses that little children like yourselves have never encountered because you have never leased a commercial building to set up a business and you have no idea of the intricacies of business dealings at that scale.

I can't see how they are doing it when I consider the logistics and costs....certainly not with the efficiencies we have today at sub $400 prices.
 



are you speaking from experience?

i can relate as a 2TH hobbyist.  i traded simple services for my electrician to wire in eight special 240W outlets (i'm oversupplied) with its own subpanel to the 2nd flr room of a building i already own.  i put the miners up next to an open sliding door with a balcony and lined up fans pointing outwards up against the screen door.  i had one of my workers install a $200 external barred gate like this for security.  no other cooling:



the room is exposed to the open air 24/7 all year long.  no licenses, insurance or any other special expenses except for electricity.  i had additional Cat5/6 wiring run thru the walls to an external closet connecting the server with the asics to an existing internet connection used for other purposes.  throw in a large roller rack.

total cost of setup and other ancillary materials, maybe $400.  it pays to be small and nimble.


Yes, exactly...your costs benefit from the economy of scale I'm talking about.
Small and nimble is what works in these days of high mining diff.

Now consider if you want to lease a commercial building of 50-100k sq ft.
It costs $3-5 per square foot for that alone....on a minimum one year term.
To lease the building you need to tell the landlord and the municpality has to approve what the use will be...as soon as you tell them a half dozen riders get dropped onto the lease.
Liability insurance in the millions...usually 10 million for a building like that
Transformer installation....ask yourself what a transformer capable of 0.5MW costs to install
Electrical approvals, all electricals installed by licensed electricians, and the panels signed off by same
Here's the kicker....in order to install electronics such as these in an industrial setting you are never going to get away with plugging in equipment that has no CSA/UL/CE approval. Certainly not 1000 units of electronic equipment that is not approved for your country...now you are into electrical approvals/hipot tests at a minimum...better hope the company you bought them from designed these properly
Do it illegally? No insurance will cover you. And your local hydro department will never turn on the mains without it.
Now think about racking
Now think about networking costs and cabling costs for the units when the runs are 10x longer
power supplies....most mining hardware requires your own
fire prevention/suppression? How are you going to handle that?
cooling? How many tons of AC? Does it have to be installed?
internet bandwidth? You are not running this off a single DSL/Cable modem connection


Already own a 2-3 million dollar building you want to use for mining?...great, you can strip away a few of those requirements but most are still applicable. And now you have a 2-3 million dollar asset not generating leasing revenue...







legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 28, 2014, 08:22:54 PM
The elephant in the room: consumers have almost no incentive to use bitcoin.
The common talking points are:
Low fees - The consumers pay no fees while using a credit card. They actually get rewards points back.
Privacy - As evidenced by a recent post, bitcoin offers little privacy out of the box. You need to go through hoops to achieve privacy. People who care enough to go through these hoops have better alternatives (like cash!), which are more foolproof.
Being your own bank - Few people want to take the risks associated with being a bank. It is more of a headache than a plus.
No consumer protection - No need to elaborate.
Distrust of the monetary policy - The volatility of bitcoin makes it useless as a store of value, and there are better and more reliable options to store your wealth. Few people buy into the tinfoil-hattery that the USD is about to crash.
There is simply no pragmatic answer to "Why should I buy bitcoin?"

Cite your sources.



What are we at Yale?

well, yeah.  many of us went to the best schools in the nation so who the hell do you think you are simply copying and pasting someone else's post?

unless you really are part of a concerted effort to troll the price down today.
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