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Topic: Goodbye, privacy, goodbye, it was nice while it lasted. - page 9. (Read 2250 times)

legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1215
Damn, can't we just say we are sending money from one wallet of ours to other? They won't know shit TBH.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I guess we'll have to wait for the law to go trough all the bureaucracy to see what can and what can't be done.
copper member
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1481
Bitcoin Bottom was at $15.4k
Quote
The law will affect exchanges and non-custodial wallets, such as metamask, ledger and trezor, as I explained.
So this mean you aren't even allowed to hold your Crypto on a Ledger/Trezor?

No, it means that if you hold your crypto on a Ledger, Trezor or any other non-custodial wallet, you will have to provide information about a receiver when you are sending your crypto. The same will probably be when holding your crypto on an exchange.

But how will they know who owns each address? There is no mention about mandatory KYC procedure for people who holds crypto on a non-custodial wallets. If there won't be a KYC, how will they know who are the owners? And if they don't know who is the sender, how will they punish him for providing false information about a person they are sending crypto.
Damn, can't we just say we are sending money from one wallet of ours to other? They won't know shit TBH.
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1215
Quote
The law will affect exchanges and non-custodial wallets, such as metamask, ledger and trezor, as I explained.
So this mean you aren't even allowed to hold your Crypto on a Ledger/Trezor?

No, it means that if you hold your crypto on a Ledger, Trezor or any other non-custodial wallet, you will have to provide information about a receiver when you are sending your crypto. The same will probably be when holding your crypto on an exchange.

But how will they know who owns each address? There is no mention about mandatory KYC procedure for people who holds crypto on a non-custodial wallets. If there won't be a KYC, how will they know who are the owners? And if they don't know who is the sender, how will they punish him for providing false information about a person they are sending crypto.
copper member
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1481
Bitcoin Bottom was at $15.4k
Quote
The law will affect exchanges and non-custodial wallets, such as metamask, ledger and trezor, as I explained.
So this mean you aren't even allowed to hold your Crypto on a Ledger/Trezor?

legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
In other words they can only target anything that is centralized.

Although I am gradually acquiring more technical knowledge, I realize more and more that I still have a lot to learn. I didn't know that distinction you make. For me until now there was a distinction (in my mind):

-Custodial wallet: not good for your privacy.
-Non-custodial wallet: good for your privacy.

But I didn't know that difference between decentralized and centralized non-custodial wallets, so thanks for that.

In any case, I believe that very few people will use Bitcoin with maximum privacy.

legendary
Activity: 3444
Merit: 10558
The law will affect exchanges and non-custodial wallets, such as metamask, ledger and trezor,
In other words they can only target anything that is centralized.
- MetaMask: is a centralized non-custodial wallet created and controlled by a centralized company in United States called ConsenSys. It also relies on their centralized servers. It is controlled by the company hence can be forced to obey what the authoritarian government demands.
- Ledger, Trezor and all hardware wallet: are centralized non-custodial wallets that are issued by centralized companies and those companies can be forced to even introduce backdoors into their product.

Anything decentralized like bitcoin core, electrum, etc. is not affected.

This was always coming, and it’s going to happen everywhere
This kind of aggressive invasion of privacy and human rights has always been only happening in countries with authoritarian regimes not everywhere.
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1215
I kinda had a feeling that this vote will go this way that is bad for crypto. I guess there still is a chance this won't happen any time soon because it has to go trough a bunch of other bureaucracy stuff in order to go trough. However, I really do think that unfortunately this is the future for crypto in the EU. Maybe a distant future (because of bureaucracy), but definitely a future.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
After yesterday's vote of the European Parliament committee, I have become very pessimistic:

EU Parliament Passes Privacy-Busting Crypto Rules Despite Industry Criticism.


"Lawmakers are set to end even the smallest anonymous crypto transactions, and plan measures that could see unregulated exchanges cut off."

The law will affect exchanges and non-custodial wallets, such as metamask, ledger and trezor, as I explained.

But it must be said that this is only the first step of a law, which will take some time to be approved and can still be modified, but they have made a bad start:

"The plans must also be agreed on by both the parliament and national ministers, who meet as the EU Council, in order to pass into law."

In line with my pessimism, I came across an even more pessimistic article, Digital currency industry melts down ahead of key EU vote on non-custodial wallets, from which I will quote an excerpt:

(The article was written before the vote took place)

"If the vote goes through, this will radically alter how digital currency transfers work in the EU. It will undoubtedly place huge burdens on unhosted wallet providers, but then again, the EU doesn’t care about that. It only cares about its objectives as a political entity, and it’s notoriously tough on financial crimes, money laundering, and tax evasion. The EU was never going to let Bitcoin and other digital currencies run free, given the way they have been portrayed for the last several years and given the widespread anti-government and anti-law sentiment within the industry.

This was always coming, and it’s going to happen everywhere

Slowly but surely, people are beginning to realize that Bitcoin can not subvert governments and allow people to do whatever they like without consequences. That narrative led to disasters like the Silk Road and extremist anarchists like Cøbra touting Bitcoin as a tool to bring in the sort of chaos they wanted to see in the world. However, Bitcoin isn’t suitable for any of that, and its success entirely depends on being legally compliant.

As we see, powerful governments can use the law to force their will on the industry. We saw in Ottawa how lawmakers could freeze wallets with millions worth of BTC in them with the stroke of a pen. We’re seeing how even the idea that the EU could require unhosted wallets to be linked to identity is causing mass panic across the industry.

What happened to the narrative that Bitcoin could withstand all of this, and governments were rendered powerless when faced with it? This was a lie all along, and big companies like Coinbase, Binance, and others with teams of lawyers and advisors have always known it. They are profit-seeking entities, and they will always comply with whatever regulations they are required to, or they’ll be banned from large markets like the EU, U.S., and others.

Everything is changing before our eyes in the digital currency industry. With bans on anonymous transactions well underway, the U.S. SEC circling the likes of Ripple and Tether, and Satoshi’s Bitcoin slowly being understood as an electronic cash system designed for small casual payments that works within the law and which is always subject to it, things are ever so slowly changing for the better. If the EU votes to pass the new rules, it will be another nail in the coffin for the false narrative plaguing the industry
."

And the problem with this is that it sets a precedent and entrenches a trend of increasing state control.

What do you think about it? Are you as pessimistic as me or this article?

Edit: go to page 2 for the key proposals of the draft.

Also: PLEASE REALIZE THAT franky's ARGUMENTS ARE GARBAGE. As they are based on a former draft on a slightly different subject, that didn't pass, as I've shown on page 2.
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