Topic: Greek referendum - page 2. (Read 3624 times)

The troikas offer is also not sustainable, so if they take it, they will have the same problem later, and there will be contagion to other countries.

So the situation is not good.

The referendum was needed imho to end the neverending draging of he negotiations while situation in greece deteriorates. It will also force troika and greek gov to find common ground in a time bounded process. Both parties are (in reality) interested in campaining for a Yes (provided an updated deal). However a No will mark the point of no retreat for *any* Greek Gov, then it will be up to Troika to either cave in or expel Greece from EZ.
Troikas response was breaking greak banks.

In any way the moment Troika scare itself at the lenght they will go to enforce their terms, they are done

No more than 60lbs of olives a day.

And it should really be called currency controls currency movement controls. I rather doubt they would stop someone exporting the olives.

This is SPARTA!

Syriza openly urges Greeks to vote no. Varoufakis hints that they'll step off from government and support their successors if the outcome of the vote is yes. Madness...

Not necessarily true..Yes Greece had a corrupt judicial and political system, yes Greeks lived beyond their means because the were brainwashed by the powers to be to do so and Yes Greeks were told to borrow to buy german cars, leave the villages to go to the big towns and cities to get so called stable jobs..all this was a huge fiasco and the greek peeps bought it..The main agenda was to create a slavery of peripheral states that would import all the good from Northern Europe..this killed light Industry in Greece, not to mention the tax evasion by the rich and all the elite taking their money out instead of investing it in their own country..Capital controls now should be imposed like China..like no Yuan leaving China without proper inspection, so should Greece stop the flow of money outwards unless for something to benefit the country.. Everyone must take responsibility for this chaos, mainly the Ruling Elite and Mass media for misinforming the less prosperous and educated on good fiscal policy.. The average Greek now needs to get educated on basic fiscal analysis and economics, there is no way around this.if you stay ignorant you get eaten by the wolves and whales.. Greece made the big mistake buying ninja mortgage derivatives from Morgan Stanley. This is what created the main crisis along with the corruption of the PASOK AND NEW DEMOCRACY PARTY Bosses and their cronies.. They did squat for the average joe in Greece, all they did was embezzle millions along with their families and take their monies out to swiss banks, hence the christine lagarde LIST of black money taken out that is now under scrutiny.. BIG LESSON HERE IS LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS, DON'T BORROW A CENT OF INTEREST BEARING LOANS, WORK HARD AND BUILD YOUR OWN FUTURE, DON'T WAIT FOR OTHERS TO SPOON FEED YOU..My message to everyone including our Greek Peeps across the waters.. oh and diversify your assets, that's a MUST..

The Greek banks will close tomorrow and there will be capital controls.

Hell no. Greece is bigger than Eurozone (not financial or geographical though).

In politics, everything is possible.  But I wonder what the question will be for the referendum, given that the EU offer is not valid anymore.  The bailout program has been stopped and finished, as the conditions have not been met.  There is no offer from the EU anymore right now.  So when the Greek will vote "yes", it will be "yes, you should have agreed when the proposition was still on the table, but now it isn't anymore".

Amen.

One should not make the confusion between the ECB sending Euros to Greek banks, and a bailout.  One has nothing to do with another.  As long as banks are solvent (that is, they have a balance of their outstanding deposit accounts, and their assets, such as mortgages and so on), there is absolutely no problem in exchanging bank money for central bank money.   When a customer of a bank withdraws Euros, his account is debited by the same amount.  An amount of bank money is destroyed that way (bank money is money on a deposit account), and an amount of central bank money is issued that way.  Normally, the bank had its balance right, and the bank money had its counterparty in a bank asset.  That asset is then transferred to the ECB, to "pay" for the withdrawal.

At no point, the exchange of bank money in central bank money implies a transfer of goods and services, and at no point, this causes any inflationary pressure, as as much money is destroyed (bank money) as money was created (ECB money).

I think most EU members already took their loss.   The point is not so much to get their money back.  The point is to have states having their balances in order, or almost so.  You cannot have a Swedish-style social coverage if you have a Greek-style economy.  If you finance social "security" on deficit spending, for a while you're living on other people's efforts in the EU zone, and in the end it blows in your face.  We can't have the southern half of Europe have a social system living on the production of the northern half of Europe and at the same time have souvereign states deciding on how they collect taxes and so on.
No solidarity is possible if there is independence of decision, because that's a ticket for free riders.

Yeah i saw Tsipras in television talking about it. There will be a temporal bailout starting tomorrow... this was so obvious that it was coming. Anyone that gets caught with the money stuck on the banks it's their fault, they had plenty of time to withdraw and convert to Bitcoin or Gold if you are old.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jun/28/greek-crisis-ecb-emergency-liquidity-referendum-bailout-live

Capital controls imposed, bank holiday.

It looks like they (the people) are set at keeping the pensions, and the other elements of the welfare state.

If so, there are two outcomes:

1) They go full tilt stalin including hunger, disease, concentration camps.

2) The EU give them all that they want.

The third way, which is freedom and prosperity, is off the table for now.

The proposed referendum will cost about €10 million, which amounts to less than 0.1% of the annual debt repayment.


Last week, they said that they are ready to raise taxes on certain sectors, but resisted from doing the same across the board. The troika wanted them to impose a VAT increase on all the goods, while the Greeks refused to do that on medicines and certain other items.

That referendum, if there's one, is a huge waste of money. Funny how the government is saying it cannot afford to repay what it owes but it still has cash to organize a referendum, something which cannot be done cheaply. Just like last week, when the Greeks are known to be the worst tax collectors in the world, they said they will raise tax to repay their loans. If this was the solution, I wonder why this wasn't done earlier.

I wouldn't buy an used car from Tsipras.

why stay in EU and just kick the can down the road...they can do the EU austerity plan and prop up the banks etc and lose their gov't services pensions etc
probably accumulating more debt for the future if not generations to prop up EU bankers and not hurt the richer EU countries with a loss

or

they can say screw it and lose 50% of the countries value go into deep recession or depression and lose all the above to REALITY

and eventually in a few years move on

the current setup for Greek payback looks like a 17th century debtor's prison ....you can't pay we will make your kids pay in the future etc no way out for Greece except
default imho

screwed in debt and the battle is lost with no way out .....what does Greece care if they add to the Paper debt 2x 3x due to default theythe amount in penalties if they can never

pay it back  anyway..hell what I can tell they would never be able to pay back the interest at this rate

Hell I'd walk from this deal too...they can take the pain now or just string it out for the next decade or more WITH NO CLEAR IDEA if it would make any difference anyway
with the interest accumulated on these loans with the conditions of banks etc...could do best efforts imho and 10 years from now show NO PROGRESS AT ALL except
kept the EU banks afloat and the EU politicians happy

Hell ARGENTINA has defaulted MORE THEN ONCE to get out of such dire straits as Greece..they seem to have gotten by

again I'd walk to and take my lumps now if I was in Greece too ...dealing with being dirt poor in REALITY is a lot better then this fantasy that these bankers and
the EU are looking after Greek interests etc and would not just string this out for years and years....as a Greek politican you can point to 'reality' we are all in this
together .....with the EU deal you get the same results and point to What? We are still screwed from a bad deal?

reality ..i get ..dealing with assholes and still having the reality of the situation the same ..FU again I'd walk too


heh just wait RUSSIA will a come a calling ..you want to join our somewhat 'lame' Russian Economic Federation (or whatever it is called) Iran ..if they have sanctions removed
you want some help for oil

the truth is Greece will have some pain and it will be ugly ...but they will come out of this just fine imho

(of course I'd like to see BTC in this mix ..but still even w/o)

Greeks export billions of €€€ worth of agricultural products to other European countries (esp. olive, cheese, cotton, wheat, and citrus fruits). Also, Greece is one of the largest exporters of pharmaceutical drugs in the world. And another fact to consider here is that the tourism sector is quite big in Greece, with most of the tourists coming from the non-EU nations.