Topic: Greek referendum - page 3. (Read 3635 times)

If he genuinely wanted the citizens to have the final say he wouldn't have waited until the last minute, and then set the date for the referendum after it's too late to prevent a default.
The guys a communist and he's been playing this game for 5 months, so he can leave the Euro and blame the economic crisis on the EU and join Russia and China.

If Greece Defaults, Imagine Argentina, but Much Worse
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/business/an-echo-of-argentina-in-greek-debt-crisis.html

Greece has no exports, they will suffer worse than Argentina.

Leaving the Euro for the Drachma makes as much sense as the existence of Litecoin 

you are grossly mis-interpreting the actual will & sentiment of the greek people. Tsipras is not going to present his parliament or his people with a deal that he knows cannot be passed. That would be laughable and career and political suicide. There will be 0 probability of ramming through a deal that the public doesnt support. Since the two sides are vastly apart (on tax, and pensions) its a non-starter at this point, Tsipras knows that he cannot ever gain enough momentum or votes.

By calling a referendum he will allow the greek people to decide its fate, not politicians, bankers, or the elite. The entirety of the greek people will decide what is acceptable. The original bailout never went to the people. It went straight into the central bankers to provide the greek financial system with liquidity. That is where a lot of this mis-trust comes from. The greek people are immovable on pensions, absolutely immovable because of this. They are very jaded by the original bailout, which did not provide enough actual economic stimulus but rather liquidity into the financial banking system.

This is simply a final end game for greek in this era.

Oh Yeah? So why were Germany's debts written off after WW2 and why hasn't GERMANY PAID BACK WAR REPARATIONS AND THE DEBT THEY took form Greece? They ransacked all of the gold reserves calling it AN OCCUPATION LOAN that has still not been paid back..and yes I agree Greece was stupid to enter the EU in the first place, with such a corrupt political system in place at that time, it wasn't ready..

BIG MOTTO of this story is stop taking out unsustainable loans, start building your lives on what you have..if you need to take out a small business loan make sure you pay it back, get into profit before ever borrowing more to expand..personally NOT BORROWING ANYTHING AT ALL is the best policy for success, in private life or in business, live within our means and build from there..

Agreed and this is why Greeks need to start looking for an alternative..I sent my solution to Varoufakis but don't know if he ever had time to read it lol. Greece should stop clicnging to the EURO like God and create it's own fiscal mechanism, but that can only work if the Judicial System, Tax System and whole population gets educated on how they should love their country and not milk it dry to the ground. In schools they should be teaching fiscal responsibility from a young age..What debt means, what the fractional banking system is, what alternatives, like crypto, are like out there..This should be mandatory..without fiscal education, the next generation is well and trully f*cked, excuse my french.. Let's see what the Ministry of corruption will pull out of its hat. 

I agree, Greece should leave the Eurozone but not for the above reasons..Europe is like a huge dictator that is eroding each country's sovereignty..Why do you think the Brits want to leave? Do you know Greece had a huge cotton and silk industry? Light manufacturing arms etc? All this has gone because of the EU..Now they want to destroy Greece's Tourism industry as well.. It's just another united states of Germany.. Greece unfortunately had a few rich families of corrupt politicians who brainwashed the Masses into believing they could live on debt forever..which we all know is not sustainable..So the Wolves managed to eat many unsuspecting sheep..This is why I keep ramming down the same message to the Greeks..WAKE UP, USE YOUR BRAINS AND HANDS and rebuild your country yourselves, stop waiting to be spoon fed by sharks and wolves that will make you eat each other in the end..because this is the real end game, to create another civil war in Greece so Germany and other countries can pick up the rebuilding contracts.. One thing Greeks have to learn is taking responsibility for our actions..We can;'t keep blaming the Ottoman Turks, or the Nazis or even the EU Bosses..We have to take our fate into our own hands and reshape our history.. That is something only the Greeks can do and if they don't do it, they will just have another master whipping them, if it isn't the EU...it will be someone else..

Also I have to admit KAMMENOS Head of ANEL gave a wicked speech..I liked it..

So it is confirmed. The Greek referendum will occur on 5th July. The MPs voted 179 vs 121, in favor of conducting the referendum. Actually it was funny to notice that the far-right Golden Dawn party, voted with the extreme-left SYRIZA in favor of conducting the referendum.

FOR (179):
SYRIZA - 149
Golden Dawn - 17
ANEL - 13

AGAINST (121):

ND - 76
Potami - 17
KKE - 15
PASOK - 13

Fractional reserve banking is a fraud.  A legally sanctioned fraud.

If the debt is written off, ECB will not get their money back, but their money was created out of nothing anyway. But that might cause a large scale of default from many other southern European countries, and that will hurt the banks' plan: Those money out of thin air should belong to banks but if everyone is like Greece, just borrow and spend those money, then they are actually printing money for Greece! Banks should only print money for themselves, everyone else should borrow from them and pay an interest, that's the plan  

I guess if Greece somehow get out of EMU and start to print money for themselves, their economy will be improved very quickly. And that's ECB scared of, because other countries in EMU will follow suit

No. Relatively sound money, a government spending only taxes, banks held in check by the market. Too good to be true.

Hopefully they can stay in the eurozone, even with a government default and banks in the gutter. Maybe they can make some special rules for the greek, like don't care anymore about government surplus or deficit, and let (new) greek banks just take care of themselves.

Being stupid as they are (the government of greece) they would probably try to establish a new fiat, but it is futile, they would only be able to steal value corresponding to five billion euros or so out of that system, after that it will collapse.

I think being in the eurozone means that the country is a member of different institutions like the ECB, the eurogroup,  their banks are policed by ECB, they have access to the ELA, and the TARGET2 system. So they might be thrown out of those systems. The people living within Greece may continue to use euro notes and coins without asking. Don't know about bank accounts, may be not. They could possibly use eruo accounts in foreign banks, unless the state get in the way. The state accounting, I guess they could still use euro, and use accounts in foreign banks. The greek central bank could exist, I suppose, but they would not be able to do alot. Maybe help with deposit insurance.

The debt can be paid back or it can be written off. But if this happens, all the losses will be exposed, and we will have a debt deflation. Both is bad for politicians.

This principle does not apply to countries, since their central bank can always create money for government to borrow and repay the debt. However, by joining EMU, Greece gave up the right of money creation, thus become heavily debt laden, this is their mistake

In fact, if you look deeper into this principle, you will find out that central banks are always exempt from this principle, because they could always create money and repay the debt as wish. If Greece defaults, ECB will just print some money to cover the hole

Remember that Rothschild said: "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws"

And this one suits the situation even better:
"The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests."

In fact, the great majority of people are incapable of comprehending the tremendous unfavorable condition set by today's monetary system, and they even appreciate it and worship banks and blame those who can not return the loan (It is impossible to repay all the loan in today's monetary system, if someone managed to do that, others will be more heavily debt laden)

Thanks, keep us informed.

I have been watching the Greek Parliament all day till my eyes are square..I will give my view in depth tomorrow.. The fractional reserve Banking system that was concocted by a few dozen Jewish loansharks in 14th Century Venice is what has mushroomed out to the universal chaos we have today. LOANS AND INTEREST are what make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Greece was sucked in after WW2 into the western hemisphere of borrowing and debt .. The worst fiscal brainwashing on 3 generations of people. I remember in the olden days people lived within their means, humbly and with hard work. Now all we were taught is buy everything we can, bung it on a credit card and it doesn't matter who it will be paid later, as long as we wear the latest designer shoe and drive the latest german car.. We were idiots in the first place for allowing this yoke of fiscal oppression on us in the first place..Our ancestors believed in FREEDOM OR DEATH..WELL we are faced with the same choice today FREEDOM OR TROIKA.. So when you guys and gals go to the ballot box next Sunday your choice is FREEDOM OR DEATH (TROIKA)..I am Greek but I can't vote in Greece as I am a cypriot and british national..but I give Tsipras my vote of confidence because he has guts to challenge the Status Quo even though all the news channels have colluded with the greater powers that be to send the Greeks into panic mode.. One great thing Muslims have in their religion: NO INTEREST - RIBA IS HARAM..Now we wonder why there is a war waged against Muslims the world over..but that's another debate!

Greeks should be less scared and more confident of carving out their own future..They are not kids who should be sitting waiting to be spoon fed from the EU..They should stand up and be counted, rise and grind and make their own brilliant future, because THEY CAN.. Greeks were once pioneers not sheep..they should remember that and strive to make a new europe as they want it to be and a new Greece.. Jeroen Dijsselbloem is NOT your dad!

it seems that we had now impulse to kick bitcoin to the moon..local media are full of this greece finance issues and I'm just waiting for word bitcoin in related articles:)

All the debt is now imediately payable to the EU, the ECB and the IMF. So will the ELA, there is no liquidity assistance any more, and, as always have been known, the banks are insolvent, it was never only a liquidity issue.

And don't forget the TARGET2 imbalances, basically, it is money that should have been moved from greek businesses to their suppliers somewhere in EU, but the greek national bank basically stole it en route, to the detriment of the central bank in the country of the vendors. That's another hundred billion right there.

It is truly a tragedy, an absurd one too.

Someone just need to say it. It has still not been said.

Monday is going to be an interesting day...