Topic: [Groupbuy] Jupiter KNCMiner (0.5 BTC shares) 12 sold! [CLOSED] !!! - page 5. (Read 33236 times)

 www.bitminter.com   is  a decent pool they pay nmc the fees are low.   I have studied pools quite a bit  I would suggest  2 pools half the hash in each pool.  then use 2 different pools to back up the 2 main pools.

My reasoning is there is a flaw with pools  and a large solo miner or a large miner in a pool  can aid his/her  cause with a well placed ddos attack.  

 pool a 30%

  pool b 25%    

 the villain 1%

the rest of the hash 44 %     .


diff is at  62 mill  scheduled to go to 80 mill   100 blocks left.     the villain ddos pool a and pool b      the last 100 blocks  are sucked up by the villain and the other 44% of the hashers.  

 If you notice every time we get near the end of the blocks hash rate drops.

 the best way to combat this is 2 primary pools with 2 different backup pools   so if the villain takes out 2 pools we still have some hash power running. it is hard to ddos 4 pools.  so to me if we half to bitminter backup with btc guild and half with eligus  backed up by 50btc.  we should be okay.  

 rather then all to eligus backed up by  50btc.

 first setup we have half our hash working in a massive ddos attack. second setup if the ddos attecked both our primary and our backup we are dead 0 hash.

I Have seen this happen  close to every diff adjustment.

you're not bugging

blockchain.info is mighty inaccurate at that point it seems..

According to
http://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=4days

Eligius found 5 blocks in 4 days.. While they themselves report 31 blocks:
http://eligius.st/~gateway/stats/recent-blocks

That would put them at the same spot as 50btc.

Both 50btc and btcguild don't show the blocks they've found so I'm unable to verify the blockchain.info results on that.

Deepbit, the second pool according to blockchain only has 1.5TH according to their own site..

I'll try to do some more research, but it appears that the blockchain numbers are way of

Hey, thx and sorry for bugging but
if you follow the actuall % of blocks found by Eligius it
is less than 5%, more like 2-3%....
It seems that there are bigger pools, according to
http://blockchain.info/pools

Hey,

Actually, Eligius is the 3rd largest pool available at the moment.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools

BTCGuild has 70TH but takes 5% fee, 50BTC takes 3% with 60TH.

We might spread them over multiple pools but we feel 3% fee is a lot.

Regarding risk, we'll do everything to prevent the miners from running idle offcourse. cgminer allows multiple pools to be configured so that should help, also we'll be remotely monitoring the servers 24x7 with sms monitoring if all goes well.

We might also run our own pool as a backup or main.

Luckily we don't have to decide everything now. We can tune the miners once we're hashing and with our hash power is easier to tune and see what changes work well.

Cheers,

Maybe I am missing something here, but isn't it much safer to mine in BTCguild or another big pool, rather than a small pool like Eligius?
Are the fee differences big enough to take such a risk?

 

very exciting!!!

Latest KnC News here as well:

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-30



Its all getting really close now

@Hasher, we will probably send out divs earlier indeed to accomodate the other shares from gb2 and 3. Can't hurt the shareprice no

Also if you haven't checked it out, please take a look at our investment fund idea here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitfunder-addictiontrading-discovery-277191

Cheers!

OR

1) GB1 devices arrive. Hash-it Away
2) GB2 devices arrive. Give out GB1 Dividends
3) Issue GB2 shares. Hash-it Away
4) Next two weeks: Dividends for both GB1 and GB2

Simple as 1234  

Protip: a one-time 24-hour dividend will definitely cause the share price to skyrocket! 

PM's have been send to owners of 5th miner..

On a side note; we've been thinking of new groupbuys and other ways to invest money. We just started an interest check on an idea we have:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitfunder-addictiontrading-discovery-277191

Please take a look and give us your feedback/suggestions thanks!

Cheers,

Just to add some numbers so we know what we're talking about The average difference on all 12 miners is -0,03015 btc per GB share. When we decided to IPO on Bitfunder we had no other choice to take our own first 4 miners into the equasion as well so we are paying 1/3 of that difference ourselves anyway

Miner 5 was bought with a difference of -0,01580 btc per share. Miner 6-12 were all bought with a difference higher than the 0,03015. So you are right that miner 5 is paying (a part of) the difference of the later sold shares, but as said it could have been the other way around.

On a second look thru the posts in this topic we see we've introduced this "change" during the sale of the 5th miner. Since miner 5 is also the only "negative" exception we will compensate the difference to miner 5 shareowners. We will refund these shareholders 0,01436 per share. We will contact these buyers through PM. For the rest of the buyers this shouldn't change anything. The difference will still be deducted as communicated during the first groupbuy.

Cheers,

If you choose to put it that way yes; but we clearly said we would from the start. At the time we couldn't foresee if btc would go up again or lower further and this seemed the most fair to all. If btc would have gone up again everybody would have profited from it.

Cheers

Am i right that means that the early buyers of shares have to pay the difference to your later sold shares?

I have had good luck with bitminter.

Hey,

It's the difference between how much btc we had to pay when we payed for the miner and the amount of btc raised with the shares. As stated in start post, we didn't want to change the share price during a groupbuy, so we payed the difference out of our own pockets. We will deduct this difference out of the first dividend payment. As stated in the OP we didn't want to lose nor win btc on that difference.

The pool is not 100% sure yet. Eligius stands a good chance but we probably want more than one pool to spread the risk. Also we want to look at pools where we can merge mine but most of them come with fees. Any suggestions on that part are welcome by the way

Cheers,

Can you please explain in details what this difference is all about?

Also, on another matter,  on what pool the miners are going to mine?

thanks

tyrion70,
can we put the gb2 and gb 3 shares up and mark them as class b non dividend paying shares?
this will alleviate the issue with paying dividends and let us trade all of our shares.
not that i will be selling anytime soon but just want to see them up there.

First off, this group buy is brilliant. I wish all other GBs (and IPOs) were this well planned and organized.

I figured out a mathematical way to do all the payment corrections and mine fairly for each GB. If it helps, great. If not, no problem.

There needs to be 3 price corrections for GB 1, 2, and 3. These can be done with 3 dividend corrections per share: "x", "y", and "z".

The first GB will see all three dividend corrections:
x+y+z= GB1_correction/Number_shares_GB1 (negative sign since they owe)

The second GB receives their shares later and only sees two:
y+z= GB2_correction/Number_shares_GB2

the third GB receives their shares last and only sees one dividend correction:
z= GB3_correction/Number_shares_GB3

Therefore the three dividend corrections per share are:
z = GB3_correction/Number_shares_GB3
y = GB2_correction/Number_shares_GB2 - GB3_correction/Number_shares_GB3
x = GB1_correction/Number_shares_GB1 - GB2_correction/Number_shares_GB2

Example:
GB1 underpaid by .2 BTC with 100 shareholders (-0.002)
GB2 underpaid by .3 BTC with 200 shareholders (-0.0015)
GB3 overpaid by .1 BTC with 100 shareholders (.001)

The dividend corrections per share are:
z = 0.1/100=0.001
y = (-0.3)/200-.001= (-0.0025)
x = (-0.2)/100-(-0.3)/200 = (-0.0005)

so after the dividend corrections:
GB1 sees -.0005-.0025+.001=-.002
GB2 sees -.0025+.001= -.0015
GB3 sees .001

they all work out, like magic

Proposed plan:
1) GB1 arrives
 a) hash away.
 b) first dividend pays out normally CORRECTED by x from above
2) GB2 arrives
 a) give final dividend of whatever has been mined to GB1 shares
 b) issue GB2 shares
 c) plug in GB2 and hash away
 d) give first GB1+2 dividend normally CORRECTED by y from above
3) GB3 arrives
 a) give final dividend of whatever has been mined to GB1+2 shares
 b) issue GB3 shares
 c) plug in GB3 and hash away
 d) give the first GB1+2+3 dividend normally CORRECTED by z from above
4) profit

Hey,

Thank you for describing the issues we face

Basically we can't issue GB2 until we've mined enough coins to withhold the differences. Now even with difficulty skyrocketing that shouldn't take to long but it's no exact math as of yet.

The amounts between GB1 and GB2 luckily don't differ to much (a few btc), so we might pay that difference out of our own pockets if that makes it a lot easier to withhold it. Especially if our plan of picking both GB 1 and GB2 up in one go works out. We are trying to get GB 2 as early on day 2 as possible to ensure we have no "waiting" loss. With that respect were also considering payout that out of our own pockets if that makes life easier with respect to issuing shares and paying dividends.

All in all, as soon as we have an exact date and time we can finalize the "battle plan"! We're as eager as you all are to have the equipment hashing and leave these things behind us

Cheers,

I am curious, what is the implementation plan for dividends of the GB? It seems complex:

1) receive GB 1, turn them on, take the first mined coins to pay for the difference in BTC/USD, then distribute dividends normally
2) GB 2 arrives. give the last payout to the current shareholders (GB1). Issue shares to GB2. Turn on GB2. How do you take out mined coins only from GB2? After that, distribute GB1 and GB2 mined coins to all shareholders (GB1 and 2 now).
3) GB3 arives. give last payout to current shareholders (GB1 and GB2). Issue shares to GB3 and give GB3 some bitcoins for the BTC/USD difference (how does this happen?) Mine with GB1,2,&3. distributions to all shareholders.