Guy loses 240-600 BTC trying to short - page 2.

buwaytress

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on January 02, 2017, 12:17:07 PM

Quote from: lionheart78 on January 02, 2017, 11:49:57 AM

Quote from: poesjesvanger on January 02, 2017, 11:32:23 AM

What does 'shorting' mean?

An action of selling or trading shares with an expectation of the price will go down over time and can rebuy at a lower price to gain profit.

Code:

A short, or short position, is a directional trading or investment strategy where the investor sells shares of
borrowed stock in the open market. The expectation of the investor is that the price of the stock will decrease
over time.

Read more: Short (or Short Position) Definition | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/short.asp#ixzz4UcU6i1bq

What I find interesting is that some people refer to shorting to not only selling and expecting to buy back cheaper, but doing so with leverage. As in shorting implies leverage (which means they are losing more money than the difference between the selling point and the new higher price after selling). You can end up in debt even.

I think most people reefer to that when they talk about shorting, which is why it's so dangerous, you can go bankrupt if you screw it up. A lot of people were aiming to short the market at 1k expecting a drop and now they are losing their shit, look at the graph.. it's 1030 already and climbing.

Never mind the current price right now or even yesterday - you have an important point to take note of. A lot of traders are using incredible leveraging to short and while this sounds attractive, it simply puts you at so much exposure to sudden spikes in opposite directions.

Learn to trade first with small or no leverage, and always with a lot of healthy room for your stop loss to activate.

avikz

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Shorting is form of trading and it is as risky as taking along position. Every trade is risky. It depends of your risk taking capability on how much you can invest even after knowing that you may loose all of them.

So don't blame shorting instead blame his capability that he couldn't play it right and lost the money. I have made a lot of profit from shorting technique and also lost some.

cellard

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Quote from: deisik on January 07, 2017, 02:02:26 PM

Okay, let's take a look at the bigger picture:

The price at the top of the rebound (which is pretty pronounced here) was over 1,000 dollars per coin, right now it is a little over 900 dollars. But never mind, we still have a lot of room below to go further down, this may be only the beginning

Or maybe it's the end of the correction and $900-mid $800's is the new floor/consolidated higher price after the $1139 peak... it's all about making the gamble of either holding, or shorting hoping for that $700, or even $600's dip.

What are you going to do? On one hand you have the opportunity to make extra BTC, but you can lose your position if it keeps going up and you'll buy at a loss.

On the other hand, you may lose on that current price to 700-600'ish dip but risk 0% in the long term, and we all know long term for this year means higher than the ATH. How high? Nobody knows, it could be 2000 or it could be 10000... gamble on.

BrewMaster

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Quote from: deisik on January 07, 2017, 02:02:26 PM

-snip- So what is your point actually, just popping up and saying some empty verbiage? You have the right, indeed, but never forget who is your campaign manager

if you don't like my opinion or disagree with my speculation you don't have to attack me, jeez man relax.

Quote

right now it is a little over 900 dollars. But never mind, we still have a lot of room below to go further down, this may be only the beginning

the only thing i can tell you since you apparently dislike it when people disagree with you is that lets wait a couple of weeks and see what is going to happen.

deisik

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Quote from: BrewMaster on January 07, 2017, 01:31:10 PM

Quote from: deisik on January 06, 2017, 07:08:44 AM

Now people will start massively claiming that they have foreseen this price correction

If you really expected it, why didn't you short Bitcoin after all? Those who actually expected it, poured their money into shorts. Not surprising that they mostly lost their coins. It is easy to be wise after the event. Folks had been expecting correction since the price reached 800 dollars per coin and so what? Market manipulators waited until people started to really put their money where their mouth is and then grabbed all their dough (as they always do)

i disagree with most of what you said specifically the chart.
because it is a correction after a bubble, and a bubble is a normal thing that happens everywhere, the difference here is that people are seeing it for the first time in their lives and never seen any other market to have bubble.

also the term dead cat bounce is mostly for a dying market when price is generally falling for a long time and when it bounces back they call that dead cat bounce. in this case bitcoin has to fall from 900 to 200 and in this period the bounce backs are what you showed in the picture. but right now these are normal spikes due to volatility

"I disagree because I disagree"

But really, how do you know that a market is dying? If it is still being traded, you can't possibly know this in advance, so all your considerations are, technically speaking, meaningless and inconsequential. Conversely, you can't know how low Bitcoin is going to fall, just like the guy who is the object of this discussion hadn't expected Bitcoin to rise that high before. So what is your point actually, just popping up and saying some empty verbiage? You have the right, indeed, but never forget who is your campaign manager

Quote from: BrewMaster on January 07, 2017, 01:31:10 PM

and not to mention that this chart is only showing a tiny part of what is really happening.

Okay, let's take a look at the bigger picture:

The price at the top of the rebound (which is pretty pronounced here) was over 1,000 dollars per coin, right now it is a little over 900 dollars. But never mind, we still have a lot of room below to go further down, this may be only the beginning

BrewMaster

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There is trouble abrewing

Quote from: deisik on January 06, 2017, 07:08:44 AM

Quote from: davis196 on January 06, 2017, 06:40:59 AM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on January 02, 2017, 11:30:35 AM

https://twitter.com/whalecalls/status/815598251319640064

Quote

Okcoin $BTCUSD Quarterly futures has liquidated a short position of 47857 contract at 1,065.58 - 2017-01-02 00:38:56

I tried to warm my friends on IRC about the dangers of shorting, but they wouldn't listen.. they think they can time the market, when this is impossible, you can only look forward to trying to predict the fundamentals, and the fundamentals are clearly telling us to buy and hold long term. People that bought every dip instead of trying to be the smartass that tries to short has made massive gains this year.

Bitcoin price decreased from $1130 to $946 recently.

Shorting can be profiable if done at the right time.

I was expecting that bitcoin price correction.

Now people will start massively claiming that they have foreseen this price correction

If you really expected it, why didn't you short Bitcoin after all? Those who actually expected it, poured their money into shorts. Not surprising that they mostly lost their coins. It is easy to be wise after the event. Folks had been expecting correction since the price reached 800 dollars per coin and so what? Market manipulators waited until people started to really put their money where their mouth is and then grabbed all their dough (as they always do)

The basics of trading for kids

i disagree with most of what you said specifically the chart.
because it is a correction after a bubble, and a bubble is a normal thing that happens everywhere, the difference here is that people are seeing it for the first time in their lives and never seen any other market to have bubble.

also the term dead cat bounce is mostly for a dying market when price is generally falling for a long time and when it bounces back they call that dead cat bounce. in this case bitcoin has to fall from 900 to 200 and in this period the bounce backs are what you showed in the picture. but right now these are normal spikes due to volatility.

and not to mention that this chart is only showing a tiny part of what is really happening.

Zadicar

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Quote from: deisik on January 06, 2017, 07:08:44 AM

Quote from: davis196 on January 06, 2017, 06:40:59 AM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on January 02, 2017, 11:30:35 AM

https://twitter.com/whalecalls/status/815598251319640064

Quote

Okcoin $BTCUSD Quarterly futures has liquidated a short position of 47857 contract at 1,065.58 - 2017-01-02 00:38:56

I tried to warm my friends on IRC about the dangers of shorting, but they wouldn't listen.. they think they can time the market, when this is impossible, you can only look forward to trying to predict the fundamentals, and the fundamentals are clearly telling us to buy and hold long term. People that bought every dip instead of trying to be the smartass that tries to short has made massive gains this year.

Bitcoin price decreased from $1130 to $946 recently.

Shorting can be profiable if done at the right time.

I was expecting that bitcoin price correction.

Now people will start massively claiming that they have foreseen this price correction

If you really expected it, why didn't you short Bitcoin after all? Those who actually expected it, poured their money into shorts. Not surprising that they mostly lost their coins. It is easy to be wise after the event. Folks had been expecting correction since the price reached 800 dollars per coin and so what? Market manipulators waited until people started to really put their money where their mouth is and then grabbed all their dough (as they always do)

The basics of trading for kids

This is how whale and bagholders do play regarding on bitcoins price and there are only two things of people in the market on which there are earners and there a losser or burnt out most of their coins.Trading/investing into bitcoin is not really an easy stuff specially if we are aiming on profits and we should really think smart first and control our emotions.Seeing the candle sticks on the bitcoin chart earlier sticks signifies already a downtrend which it does happen on yesterdays.

dat.ho12492

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me too, hacker attack me, i lost all money, Sadly in 2017

Chinesegandalf

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So what up with your friends now? Did he recovers already? Maybe he make a good fortune from sorting now.
Hopefully he already recover what he lost.

eddyfly

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Quote

Guy loses 240-600 BTC trying to short

jezzzzz, that's not a 2017 good start

deisik

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Quote from: davis196 on January 06, 2017, 06:40:59 AM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on January 02, 2017, 11:30:35 AM

https://twitter.com/whalecalls/status/815598251319640064

Quote

Okcoin $BTCUSD Quarterly futures has liquidated a short position of 47857 contract at 1,065.58 - 2017-01-02 00:38:56

I tried to warm my friends on IRC about the dangers of shorting, but they wouldn't listen.. they think they can time the market, when this is impossible, you can only look forward to trying to predict the fundamentals, and the fundamentals are clearly telling us to buy and hold long term. People that bought every dip instead of trying to be the smartass that tries to short has made massive gains this year.

Bitcoin price decreased from $1130 to $946 recently.

Shorting can be profiable if done at the right time.

I was expecting that bitcoin price correction.

Now people will start massively claiming that they have foreseen this price correction

If you really expected it, why didn't you short Bitcoin after all? Those who actually expected it, poured their money into shorts. Not surprising that they mostly lost their coins. It is easy to be wise after the event. Folks had been expecting correction since the price reached 800 dollars per coin and so what? Market manipulators waited until people started to really put their money where their mouth is and then grabbed all their dough (as they always do)

The basics of trading for kids

davis196

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on January 02, 2017, 11:30:35 AM

https://twitter.com/whalecalls/status/815598251319640064

Quote

Okcoin $BTCUSD Quarterly futures has liquidated a short position of 47857 contract at 1,065.58 - 2017-01-02 00:38:56

I tried to warm my friends on IRC about the dangers of shorting, but they wouldn't listen.. they think they can time the market, when this is impossible, you can only look forward to trying to predict the fundamentals, and the fundamentals are clearly telling us to buy and hold long term. People that bought every dip instead of trying to be the smartass that tries to short has made massive gains this year.

Bitcoin price decreased from $1130 to $946 recently.

Shorting can be profiable if done at the right time.

I was expecting that bitcoin price correction.

deisik

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Quote from: SvenBomvolen on January 05, 2017, 12:21:05 PM

In this topic I learned that even for shorting, trader need to choose right moment, in case he borrowed bitcoins lose is huge. Confusing part is that he wanted to do this now when everyone expect rise, where he got idea about drop, why he expected that?
I feel sorry for this guy, he lost a fortune. Trading is proven to be very risky investment once again, learn from this and try to not do the same. If this is me, I dont know how would I recover from this huge lose.

In fact, it is not even for shorting, it is specifically for shorting that you need to choose the right moment with a surgical accuracy. As I explained above and others basically said the same, your losses can be virtually unlimited since you win when the price goes down, and, consequently, lose when it goes up, and there is no limit to the upper side ("to the moon"). Add to this that shorting technically is carried out on borrowed funds and you get an understanding how dangerous it is. Regarding why some took to shorting, they obviously expected the price to start massively correcting after reaching the 1,000 dollar level...

But it didn't happen, and the price went another 100 dollars up over $1,100

Quote from: Amph on January 06, 2017, 03:06:15 AM

Quote from: deisik on January 05, 2017, 04:08:21 AM

You are spreading misinformation because your "definition" has nothing to do with the long accepted and established one. Essentially, you are perverting the meaning of the term that had been in use long before your birth. It is no problem (as I said) if you use it to yourself, but English is not even your mother tongue, so why do you ever come down to telling this? Nevertheless, what is your definition for someone selling stocks, currency futures or whatever which he doesn't own?

What is your term for a short sell as everyone understands this?

as i said shorting is selling when you speculate on the price going down, selling just to take the money and go away is dumping for me

I'm asking what is your term for short selling as it is understood by everyone and his dog (i.e. selling something you borrowed with the intention of buying it back when the price goes down)?

Amph

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Quote from: deisik on January 05, 2017, 04:08:21 AM

Quote from: Amph on January 05, 2017, 03:50:30 AM

it doesn't make sense to me, the practice of shorting, it's selling because you think the price is going down, if it is your or other money shouldn't matter at all

it's not spreading misinformation, that was my definition of it since the beginning, i didn't even have a look at it to wikipedia, therefore i'm not in agreement with that definition

You are spreading misinformation because your "definition" has nothing to do with the long accepted and established one. Essentially, you are perverting the meaning of the term that had been in use long before your birth. It is no problem (as I said) if you use it to yourself, but English is not even your mother tongue, so why do you ever come down to telling this? Nevertheless, what is your definition for someone selling stocks, currency futures or whatever which he doesn't own?

What is your term for a short sell as everyone understands this?

as i said shorting is selling when you speculate on the price going down, selling just to take the money and go away is dumping for me

and again is not misinformation, i'm not doing it on purpose to make other belive what iw ant, it's just my view on the matter

otherwise how do you call someone who is selling his money to buy back?

SvenBomvolen

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In this topic I learned that even for shorting, trader need to choose right moment, in case he borrowed bitcoins lose is huge. Confusing part is that he wanted to do this now when everyone expect rise, where he got idea about drop, why he expected that?
I feel sorry for this guy, he lost a fortune. Trading is proven to be very risky investment once again, learn from this and try to not do the same. If this is me, I dont know how would I recover from this huge lose.

deisik

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on January 05, 2017, 11:59:30 AM

Bitcoin is going to 1000+ again, looks like a lot of short positions got cleared, expect a whole new list of people that went bankrupt recently trying to short the last dip, probably whalecalls twitter will announce it... that is why I just buy and hold. I bought more bitcoin on this dip and it felt great to be able to buy sub 1000 BTC again, it's time to stack up before 1000 solidifies as the new floor. Bitcoin has shown excellent performance everytime it dips.

Between the cup and the lip a morsel may slip (or sleep)

What we just saw may be just a dead-cat bounce. When China wakes up later in the night today, the price may go down to sub-800 levels. I guess it is safe to say now that the current price gap over 1,000 dollars has been nothing more but a severe pump, and we may not yet have seen the dump phase of it. The market always fools the majority of players and wannabe traders. Now as they think they have seen the bottom and happily started to buy up

While the light might in fact well be a freight train coming

BillyBobZorton

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Bitcoin is going to 1000+ again, looks like a lot of short positions got cleared, expect a whole new list of people that went bankrupt recently trying to short the last dip, probably whalecalls twitter will announce it... that is why I just buy and hold. I bought more bitcoin on this dip and it felt great to be able to buy sub 1000 BTC again, it's time to stack up before 1000 solidifies as the new floor. Bitcoin has shown excellent performance everytime it dips.

Telepo

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Wow, This guy will go to suicide. he lost too many bitcoins nearly 700,000usd. This is a big amount of money for me .
I have worked all my life , I can not have that amount like this. He was very hazardous.

RoommateAgreement

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Bazinga!

this is a great lesson for everyone and it even deserves to be stickied here or in trading board preferably.
so that everyone can see trading is a risky job and you can not predict what is going to happen, you have to go in with amount that you can afford to lose not all you have, because incidents like this can really ruin lives.

calkob

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Quote from: Shiroslullaby on January 02, 2017, 01:02:30 PM

Anyone who can bet $300,000 to $500,000 on a short probably has enough money to cover it.
Its still probably a big loss, but I'm assuming this person probably has made millions off Bitcoin already.

Personally I would never take a short against Bitcoin right now. Things have so crazy lately. The price seems to be going up with no signs of stopping.
(Although a slight drop in price could be just as likely, I guess.)

Yeah but it still gotta hurt, but then again in the mentality of someone like that they prob just think i will get it back easy. I would never risk the bitcoin i have, but then again thats prob why i will never be a multi millionaire either. Grin

Topic: Guy loses 240-600 BTC trying to short - page 2. (Read 3697 times)