Topic: Hardbit hardware wallet? - page 3. (Read 4932 times)

Sync the balance of which wallet? The offline one of the one on your Tracking device (Smartphone?)?

If it is the offline device, does that mean you can then create Transactions with only the device without having a Tracking device with you? (As you already have everything needed for creating a Tx then). And do they offer a way to sync it without having a tracking device (a software or a website)?

Hi,
 I just got a hardbit from the manufacturer in SZ (very kind btw).

What you get:

- 1 android device (2.5'')
- 2 batteries
- 1 USB cable
- 1 USB charger

Hardware:

It is an android 2.5'' phone: you can find same hardware on amazon or ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-New-2-45-touch-screen-the-worlds-smallest-Land-Rover-Android-smartphone-/121215810011, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HIHRWEK/?tag=newvie-20)

Software:

A custom version of android and a wallet application are loaded into the Hardbit.
You have to download an application on your smartphone (it seems that there is only an android version at the moment)

How it works:

The hardbit is using QR codes to communicate with the smartphone. By this way you can sync the balance of the wallet, propagate a transaction and create a backup of the wallet.

The wallet and backups are protected by a password that you are requested to create when your first turn on the hardbit (at least 10 caracters)

First Conclusions:

It is a very smart idea!
However, I would have more details on the way the private key is generated (I will ask a friend to translate the technical document).

If I can find some time, I will upload some pictures tomorrow.

Hi ，I'm the R&D leader for Hardbit.
Thanks everyone for your interest in Hardbit.
We've sent 14 Hardbits out .2 already in costomers' hands.
Currently we are busy working on polishing online side software and user's manual.
So please forgive us on slow response of questions.
I think the user's manual will answer most of your questions.
And, the full techincal white paper is already published in Chinese. The English version is only 1/3 of the whole article. We will transate that in a week.
Here I put some core ideas why we develop this product:
1 To make a solution that is best effort for Bitcoin safety for dummies.
(For experienced IT guys, they really don't need hardware wallet.)
(Don't try to teach dummies how to protect their Bitcoins. The more they know, the more possibility they lose their Bitcoins)
so,,convenience is not taking into consideration. Only safety, safety ,safety
So please don't compare convenience with online wallets. Hardbit will perfectly lose.
2 To make a system that online client and offline client can come from different providers. This system is based on a simple communication protocol. (An open-protocol system is much more powerful than an open-source software), this system will help build the offline payment eco system of Democurrency.
3 The hardware must be affordable and portable, and last but not least, not easily recognized as a Bitcoin wallet.

Before making negative assumptions lets get some feedback

Can anyone work out where they're based in china? I'm going there on saturday for a few weeks in Shenzhen. It would be cool to pick one or two up in person. Even if not, the nice thing about being in china is that shipping between different cities is usually less than a day.

Before you make all these negative assumptions, maybe wait till there out there and we know the facts.

after thinking about the possibilities and usefulness

1. not ready for layman/averagejoy
2. not to be used for dailyspend
3. risk of trojaned firmware updates

now to explain
1. average joe does not read sourcecode, so will have to trust the vendor they bought it off - big secrity issue
2. if only sending a signed transaction (no privkey displayed to merchant) the device wont know the true balance before or after a transaction, the only possibility would be to have the owner type a balance and let the wallet 'estimate' spend, which can alter due to fee's that may have been added
3. not only can hackers edit the firmware update program on peoples computer. but so can governments. so privkey stealing is not the only risk but so is enabling the phone for government tracking

i think this hardware wallet is just a prototype using a $40 phone to get atleast $60 profit. and then use this profit to make a proper device that does not ever need a firmware update or has any cellphone antenna's inside to prevent from exploitation

Can't wait for some unboxing reviews.

Maybe. It's not in the product description on the website tho. If I ordered one and I only found out about having to carry a tracking device in order to use it, it would be completely useless for me. Maybe it's just a bad explanation on the website rather then a scam attempt, thats totally possible, but I still think a merchant should tell his customers what exactly they are buying.

Now that I stated a simple solution to the additional device required, I hope it will be implemented.

Just read this somewhere :-

'' Editor's notes

My understanding is that you need a mobile phone or computer to transmit the transactions besides hardbit that itself can't connect to the internet for security reasons. It only signs transactions and these transactions with a QR code. The merchant's internet connected computer will broadcast the transaction. This is a novel idea, but requires the merchants to have this ability in their software.

It's not clear how backups are done. Since the device has no internet connection we can be sure it's not backed up to a cloud. It's unlikely that the company can steal your coins. ''

Source - http://bitcoinowl.com/hardbit-bitcoin-hardware-wallet-launched-china

I trust only open source devices. The chance that it can be hacked is much lower

Dude are you even serious ?
There are multiple pictures already for this device .
I would not take it as a scam attempt at all .
It might be just another Android device , for sure , but it works.

And the guy who owns this HardBit , Has been developing the code since long back .

I'm damn sure there will be a simple solution to make the payment . Its just not written on their website or stuff .
I'll be receiving them soon .
Will let you know .

Maybe you are not familiar with how bitcoin transactions work. A Transaction doesn't just include sending and receiving addresses plus the amounts. If required previous outputs as inputs to be valid. How does the device know about the output of a transaction I received 1 day ago? Is has to somehow get to know it because otherwise it cannot create a transaction.

The way it is explained the transaction also doesn't get created by the merchant (who has the blockchain) because for that you'd have to somehow give the merchant all possible addresses you might be using or a seed for a deterministic address generation. None of these options is not part of the "only needs 3 steps" and it would be a major privacy issue as well.

The only options are feeding it the output information or having the transaction created by another device. However, the latter would require more than the 3 steps for every payment (so it's not used here) and the former isn't mentioned anywhere.

I don't see a way this device can work the way it is explained and I don't think there is one except if it is using a 3rd party payment processor you have to leave your coins with, which would defeat the whole purpose of such a secure device in there first place.

Therefore I am going to consider this as a scam attempt until it is revealed how the user has to feed the device the output information (A part not explained on the website).
If is needs another device like a tracker (Smartphone?) with Internet connection to work properly, I'll consider it a scam as well because it's nowhere mentioned on the website and won't work as advertised with the 3-step-model then.

Looking forward to see if people who ordered actually get one O_o

I have a smartphone for everyday payments.  I look to use this as a storage only device at home so I don't need to carry around tons of btc on me.  Just need more info on security\open source and battery life.  How is it backed up?  Doesn't say...

+1

Open source or gtfo.

Its basically Chinese guys trying English . So , these '' can '' errors are acceptable .
Hopefully , It actually does work offline .

Well i for one would love a reliable trustworthy hardware wallet.

 Because Hardbit can work offline, so it can act like bank cards for payment in shops. It enables immediate confirmation because double spending is avoided by changing the transaction broadcaster  from payer to payee.

can?

why use the word can..

shouldnt it be wrote like:
Because Hardbit works offline, so it acts like bank cards for payment in shops. It enables immediate confirmation because double spending is avoided by changing the transaction broadcaster  from payer to payee.

I think if the receiver has internet , the hardbit wallet does not require any connection .
Basically , you scan the payment QR to pay , you put you password to proceed and then you get a QR code , which the receiver then scans to receive the amount hardbit have sent .
I don't know how's that possible but it says :-

'' Hardbit only needs 3 steps: scan the payment request, input password, show your transaction QR to receiver. ''

Also , i think offline payment can also be done .

'' Because Hardbit can work offline, so it can act like bank cards for payment in shops. It enables immediate confirmation because double spending is avoided by changing the transaction broadcaster  from payer to payee. '' .

Its confusing , but it seems , HardBit is a solo unit and will work without any thing else .
The main purpose of HardBit wallet is to eliminate the automatic connection to various channels like internet , wifi , NFC , which leaks the private key . HardBit has no such channels .

I still wonder , how will eventually submit the transaction through a smartphone with internet .

Maybe , it creates a part - private key for the exact amount to be sent , and the receiver the scans that private key and import the amount . If this is the case , then its super cool , as you don't need internet at all to send the payment .

But theres ways around the requirement for another device if you can sync is like an SPV client before leaving our home. This should be implemented asap since it can remove the requirement of an additional device.