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Topic: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge. (Read 4900 times)

Phinnaeus Gage
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Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 20, 2013, 02:21:23 AM
#105
Quote from: goxed on September 19, 2013, 06:41:30 PM
Now they are selling hashing power....https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/1-gh-cloud-hosted-bitcoin-hashing-power.html

For what it's worth, BFL is expanding their data center locations: http://staysecuresolutions.com/data-center-overview/

Quote
Stay Secure Solutions current facilities include an 85,000 square foot Data Center in Tampa and a 120,000 square foot Data Center in Atlanta. The facilities are strategically located in a secure, low-profile facility and are perfectly suited as either a primary or secondary site for your critical applications and data.

Puppet
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Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 20, 2013, 02:19:54 AM
#104
Quote from: Geo_log on September 20, 2013, 02:14:43 AM
Quote from: Puppet on September 20, 2013, 01:40:59 AM
The more blocks are mined per month due to the speed of growth of the network, the more inflation we have
- current bitcoin inflation is BTC4500 * 365 / BTC11.7millions ever mined = 14% per year. Not so big.

Still requires >$200M extra in fiat to maintain its value. Not so small either.
Geo_log
hero member
Activity: 505
Merit: 512
El sueño de la razón produce monstruos
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 20, 2013, 02:14:43 AM
#103
Quote from: Puppet on September 20, 2013, 01:40:59 AM
The more blocks are mined per month due to the speed of growth of the network, the more inflation we have
- current bitcoin inflation is BTC4500 * 365 / BTC11.7millions ever mined = 14% per year. Not so big.
Phinnaeus Gage
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 20, 2013, 02:09:28 AM
#102
Quote from: greyhawk on September 19, 2013, 04:51:07 PM
Quote from: Flying Hellfish on September 19, 2013, 04:45:32 PM
It is crystal clear in my mind no one a that company has any estimating or forecasting skills at all.

I'm not sure what would make you think that?  Huh

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/4974-so-lets-take-look-history-some-delivery-dates-predictions-bfl.html

Oh. Ok.

Could you at least make sure the links work when you provide them?

Quote
Error 502
Bad gateway

I didn't know BFL had a graveyard shift, but obviously the site's being work on now.
Phinnaeus Gage
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 20, 2013, 02:04:04 AM
#101
Quote from: bcp19 on September 19, 2013, 04:08:05 PM
Quote from: RoadStress on September 19, 2013, 04:04:10 PM
Quote from: Bitcoinorama on September 19, 2013, 12:04:43 PM
Wow. This is actually their lowest blow.


This may be their lowest, but after this i really really want to see their next move. Any bets?
Didn't you know, they're taking over Laz's refund offering business so they can get paid for refunding people money.

Speaking of moving, bcp19 and I could easier win that bet. You see, they have this trailer currently being used to burn in units...
Puppet
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Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 20, 2013, 01:40:59 AM
#100
Quote from: Geo_log on September 20, 2013, 01:27:48 AM
Quote from: Syke on September 19, 2013, 08:05:18 PM
3600 btc/day * 30 days * $130/btc = $14million revenue.
- it is  2016 blocks * 25BTC / 11 days = 4500 BTC/day at current difficulty increase. Or 4500 * 30 * $130/BTC = $17.5million/month.

You can argue that, but be aware that you are implicitly assuming an inflow of extra fiat to maintain that btc exchange rate.
The more blocks are mined per month due to the speed of growth of the network, the more inflation we have and the more fresh fiat needs to flow in to exchanges to maintain that constant btc price.
Geo_log
hero member
Activity: 505
Merit: 512
El sueño de la razón produce monstruos
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 20, 2013, 01:27:48 AM
#99
Quote from: Syke on September 19, 2013, 08:05:18 PM
3600 btc/day * 30 days * $130/btc = $14million revenue.
- it is  2016 blocks * 25BTC / 11 days = 4500 BTC/day at current difficulty increase. Or 4500 * 30 * $130/BTC = $17.5million/month.
Puppet
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Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 20, 2013, 01:16:51 AM
#98
Quote from: bcp19 on September 19, 2013, 07:42:48 PM
Quote from: Syke on September 19, 2013, 07:20:20 PM
Quote from: bcp19 on September 19, 2013, 06:21:45 PM
You think I am joking?  10% would be roughly an additional 800TH in Jan, 880TH in Feb, 968TH in Mar, 1065TH in April, 1172TH in May

Pumping out 800 TH/s in Jan is going to be easy. That's only a few thousand chips.
Even at $3 per GH that's over $2.4million.  You honestly think people will spend $2.4M in Jan, $2.64M in Feb, $2.904M in Mar, $3.1944M in Apr?

Thats where you get it fundamentally wrong. A few thousand more chips is a few tens of thousands more dollars in production cost, be it today or in 6 months or 12 months. Yes, someone will spend that kind of money (and lots more) to be able to sell it at a profit, even if that profit will diminish month after month and will be no where near were it is today.

As long as the market price per GH is well above production cost (likely <$0.1 per GH for the asic) more chips will be produced and added to the network. The price of this chips isnt set, its merely a result of demand, ie, their perceived profitability to the miner.
Bicknellski
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 20, 2013, 01:15:42 AM
#97
Quote from: ?? on ??
But this cloud hashing takes all the fun out of it.  I might as well buy and hold BTC or just watch my stock portfolio.

Psst! I think most would point to the fun has left the building after GPU's got killed off.
Bicknellski
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 20, 2013, 01:14:37 AM
#96
Quote from: smoothie on September 19, 2013, 06:29:04 PM
Simple solution: Never send money to someone until they have a product in stock.

Or have never missed their shipping dates...
Syke
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Activity: 3878
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Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 20, 2013, 12:47:26 AM
#95
Quote from: bcp19 on September 19, 2013, 10:56:21 PM
You forgot to consider power costs.  Using the absolute best power/GH of .7 you'd need ~40.32 gigawatts of power per month or $4.032million minimum at a mere $.10/kw. Since these aren't even supposed to be out until January let's look at what will be out.

My miners are already running power/GH of .75 at $.02/kw energy today. I expect to have something significantly better by 2014.

Quote from: bcp19 on September 19, 2013, 10:56:21 PM
If you use D&T's estimates and average, you get ~2.1W/GH or ~$8.4million at $.10/kw.  Many people have much worse power costs, but still, you expect ~50% of 'profits' to be immediately used to buy more equipment monthly?

If you're mining at 2.1 W/GH and $.10/kw, your days are numbered. The rest of us will leave you behind.
bcp19
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Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 19, 2013, 10:56:21 PM
#94
Quote from: Syke on September 19, 2013, 08:05:18 PM
Quote from: bcp19 on September 19, 2013, 07:42:48 PM
Even at $3 per GH that's over $2.4million.  You honestly think people will spend $2.4M in Jan, $2.64M in Feb, $2.904M in Mar, $3.1944M in Apr?

3600 btc/day * 30 days * $130/btc = $14million revenue. So yeah, $3million per month is going to be cake.
You forgot to consider power costs.  Using the absolute best power/GH of .7 you'd need ~40.32 gigawatts of power per month or $4.032million minimum at a mere $.10/kw.  Since these aren't even supposed to be out until January let's look at what will be out.  If you use D&T's estimates and average, you get ~2.1W/GH or ~$8.4million at $.10/kw.  Many people have much worse power costs, but still, you expect ~50% of 'profits' to be immediately used to buy more equipment monthly?
Pt0x
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 19, 2013, 10:40:49 PM
#93
Quote from: Flying Hellfish on September 19, 2013, 10:33:49 PM
Quote from: southerngentuk on September 19, 2013, 10:26:53 PM
Quote from: Pt0x on September 19, 2013, 10:13:56 PM
OMG they took seriously my post:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/4737-when-will-bfl-stop-producing-useless-hardware.html#post56467

If your going to give them anymore ideas can you perhaps suggest refunding peoples money...

Damn you Pt0x cloudf#cking, really what next.    Shocked

Maybe he should suggest an offshore BTC lottery scam site as BFL's next offering. 

I'm sure they read this: http://thegenesisblock.com/op-ed-bitcoin-minings-inevitable-centralized-future/
Flying Hellfish
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Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 19, 2013, 10:33:49 PM
#92
Quote from: southerngentuk on September 19, 2013, 10:26:53 PM
Quote from: Pt0x on September 19, 2013, 10:13:56 PM
OMG they took seriously my post:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/4737-when-will-bfl-stop-producing-useless-hardware.html#post56467

If your going to give them anymore ideas can you perhaps suggest refunding peoples money...

Damn you Pt0x cloudf#cking, really what next.    Shocked

Maybe he should suggest an offshore BTC lottery scam site as BFL's next offering. 
southerngentuk
sr. member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 254
Sugars.zone | DatingFi - Earn for Posting
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 19, 2013, 10:26:53 PM
#91
Quote from: Pt0x on September 19, 2013, 10:13:56 PM
OMG they took seriously my post:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/4737-when-will-bfl-stop-producing-useless-hardware.html#post56467

If your going to give them anymore ideas can you perhaps suggest refunding peoples money...

Damn you Pt0x cloudf#cking, really what next.   Shocked
Pt0x
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 19, 2013, 10:13:56 PM
#90
OMG they took seriously my post:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/4737-when-will-bfl-stop-producing-useless-hardware.html#post56467

(predicted by me 12 days ago)
goxed
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1006
Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 19, 2013, 08:06:40 PM
#89
Quote from: Threader on September 19, 2013, 06:44:16 PM
Quote from: goxed on September 19, 2013, 06:41:30 PM
Now they are selling hashing power....https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/1-gh-cloud-hosted-bitcoin-hashing-power.html
Late to the party? Did you skip to the end of the thread?

haha yea Smiley
Syke
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Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 19, 2013, 08:05:18 PM
#88
Quote from: bcp19 on September 19, 2013, 07:42:48 PM
Even at $3 per GH that's over $2.4million.  You honestly think people will spend $2.4M in Jan, $2.64M in Feb, $2.904M in Mar, $3.1944M in Apr?

3600 btc/day * 30 days * $130/btc = $14million revenue. So yeah, $3million per month is going to be cake.
bcp19
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 19, 2013, 07:42:48 PM
#87
Quote from: Syke on September 19, 2013, 07:20:20 PM
Quote from: bcp19 on September 19, 2013, 06:21:45 PM
You think I am joking?  10% would be roughly an additional 800TH in Jan, 880TH in Feb, 968TH in Mar, 1065TH in April, 1172TH in May

Pumping out 800 TH/s in Jan is going to be easy. That's only a few thousand chips.
Even at $3 per GH that's over $2.4million.  You honestly think people will spend $2.4M in Jan, $2.64M in Feb, $2.904M in Mar, $3.1944M in Apr?
Syke
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193
Re: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.
September 19, 2013, 07:20:20 PM
#86
Quote from: bcp19 on September 19, 2013, 06:21:45 PM
You think I am joking?  10% would be roughly an additional 800TH in Jan, 880TH in Feb, 968TH in Mar, 1065TH in April, 1172TH in May

Pumping out 800 TH/s in Jan is going to be easy. That's only a few thousand chips.
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