Topic: Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge. - page 3. (Read 4900 times)

Right, Bitfury isn't endgame. It's just the best that's currently available. Better stuff will come along.

On August 19th when they introduced the Monarch and put the 'majority of the network' statement out there is was true.  Just cause times have changed you're demanding they change along with it.  Yet I don't see you tracking down the hundreds of other companies that have made claims that are now not true due to time and change.  Until I see your righteous anger directed at more than 1 company, you are just like yip-yip... a noise a tiny dog makes.

Your reasoning is sound, except I am not sure bitfury's could still be produced at a reasonable margin that corresponds to a market price in a 50+PH network. Miners may still want to increase their hashrate, but bitfury wouldnt be able to sell them cheap enough (unless miners would get a multi year investment horizon).

Instead, I used hashfast's chip to calculate the endgame. Spreadsheet can be found here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3165331

Depending on electricity cost and other assumptions, you will end up somewhere between 80 and 800PH.

Proof?

Proof? How about "Tape out August 2013"? Think that's the truth? How about "That 65nm ASIC chip is now powering the majority of the bitcoin network."? Is that the truth? Those are from their current website.

That is called perception, you still have not shown proof.

Asicminer is fleecing people with honesty.
BFL is fleecing people with dishonesty.

Subtle but significant difference.

True, but most of the people in here who pooh poohed me for pointing out AM was fleecing people are now screaming BFL is fleecing people.  That my friend IS a hypocrite.

Thats a spectacularly stupid reason to buy mining hardware... (or lease hashrate). "to keep mining income stable". Really?
Any sane person would invest in mining equipment if/when if he sees an opportunity for it to be most likely profitable,  but apparently if your profitability goes out of the window, your solution is constantly doubling down ?
That will end well!
For BFL that is, they will soon sell out that datacenter.

Growth rate is going to continue to skyrocket until the cost of electricity becomes significant.

Bitfury, 400 GH/s at 300 watts.

Current Difficulty = 112628548 roughly 1 PH/s
Daily income  = $223
Daily electricity at $.10/kwh = $.72

Difficulty at roughly 54 PH/s
Daily income  = $4.13
Daily electricity at $.10/kwh = $.72

Even at 54 PH/s, electricity costs are only 17% for a lot of miners. That's still a profit of $100/mo, so reasonably prices ASICs will still sell at that difficulty. ASIC prices are going to keep plummeting, and the network is going to blow past 54 PH/s. Easily.

And the march towards 50 cent per Gh/s has started....

Makes you realize that BFL just took a dump in front of their customers and called it "liquid gold"...

http://cointerra.com/ $3/gh shipping January

Actually this is lowest $/GH ratio available on ASIC market (excluding other BFL cards). Next one is KNCminer Jupeter with 12,48 $/GH (with preorder for November delivery). If BFL will activate this service even on February - these options are sort of the same by profitability.

BFL is very good at marketing and have great vision of future. Their delivery totally sucks, though. But everything is already foreseen by them.

Soon difficulty will skyrocket with cosmic rates. To keep stable income from BTC mining - one should buy new devices every month (and $/GH ratio will drop a lot in future to keep buyers, so amount of bought devices per month will grow). Does anybody want to have hundreds of devices in his room, and maintain all this stuff? Nope. Its much easier to buy mining contact - pay money and receive mining power instantly, without shipping and device setup and etc.. Plus, this is better for ASIC producer too - they do not need to process all these orders with shipping and packing. Just receive chips from manufacture, assemble on board, plug board into server rack.
Soon ASIC producing companies will start to switch to this contract delivery model. They must be stupid to leave this opportunity. And BFL does this now not because they have technology, but just to establish themselves as general provider of such service. Real result will be provided by them in two weeks after publicly announced date .
Its just their work model - promise thing that will be demanded in future, collect invests, promise, deliver when its not relevant anymore.
It looks totally promising, just don't invest anything until you will see that this service is online.

KNC photo's of their first 28nm chips.


How long can BFL hold out before slashing prices? (Only time will tell)

Why should I be surprised that you and I can come to the same conclusions on the same data concerning difficulty and $/hashrate?  I've told several people that the current market is not good for investing in mining equipment.  I knew it wasn't a good investment when I ordered my Jalapeno, but I'm not in this for quick cash, I'm investing in the future.  This is what the 'invest in BTC not equipment' people don't understand.  I've earned not quite 3BTC from my mining efforts over the last 4 motnhs.  I've invested some and played with the market and overall I did well since I am now "worth" well over 10BTC.  Here's the rub though... the BTC I mined is 'play money'.  I don't really care if I win or lose with my investments, so I am a little bolder with them.  If I would have spent cash to get those BTC, I would have never taken half of the investments I did, cause it would have lost the play money aspect of it.  This is why buying equipment is more palatable to me than buying BTC.  My monthly expenses don't change much and I don't have to worry every second of the day whether I am gaining or losing money.

Totally agreed.

You must have missed them shipping their ASICs in October of 2012 also. Honest Abe.

But yeah, at this point if anyone ordered $10/gh shipping in February, the customer is an idiot.

I am no hypocrite at the very least.

I have always complained and pointed it out. Doesn't matter who it is, it is wrong. My story, nor my stance has changed. I continue to think the same.

So the hosting center isn't going into operation for a year?  I must have missed that. 

I am saying exactly that.

I don't agree with putting a 10 day interval. But someone requested it...because that is what it is in actual reality. (I know bcp19, you don't like reality)

And ultimately, yes, I totally agree with your statement. Anything above 50cents per GH/s is not a long term investment.

Sorry, to be the alarm clock, but it is time to wake up. Hash Fast (one example) is already offering miners at $3.50-ish per Gh/s.

BFL is offering the Monarch at about double that.
---------------------------

So don't look so surprised when I actually agree with your statement my friend. .50cents should be close to what a long term invester in BTC is looking for.