HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 358.

dhenson

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Quote from: gmaxwell on December 19, 2013, 11:06:52 PM

I'm not even sure if there reasonably could be a remediation that would satisfy people at this point which no doubt makes it difficult to deal with. It might be that there is no resolution which would be mutually satisfactory at this point, at least one not involving a time machine.

Sure there is. BTC refund. 'nuff said.

It's sad that I am 100% willing to let them off the hook completely for simply returning my original purchase price.

gmaxwell

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Some other vendors when they missed their targets contacted customers, a choice of a full refund or additional hardware.

Yes, HF has MPP, but I suspect most buyers considered MPP a valuable bit of insurance against difficulty rises with on-time delivery and a bit of insurance against some regular, random, and unforeseeable delays. I don't think any of the batch1 customers— at least not any of them reading this thread— will feel whole even if by some epic feat deliveries happen before the end of the year without some remediation, since it really does sound like HF really had no reason to believe that it could or would make good on the original advertised delivery date, doubly so when coupled with the repeated communication that everything was on time which practically extended up to the deadline and induced additional sales.

I'm not even sure if there reasonably could be a remediation that would satisfy people at this point which no doubt makes it difficult to deal with. It might be that there is no resolution which would be mutually satisfactory at this point, at least one not involving a time machine.

perezoso

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The reason why we keep coming back to the same discussions is that each time Hashfast said something clearly, there's at least one instance, usually more, where they contradicted the apparently canonical statement.

This is a predictable result of Hashfast's marketing plan. From the beginning the strategy was obfuscation. Generate confusion about delivery dates and refunds through parsed and contradictory statements, selective silences.

In retrospect, the pattern is clear. I think it will be clear to others too, on calm, cool argumentation.

The thing is that Hashfast actually still has time to do a whole lot to rectify the situation, depending on how they play their cards. Yeah, they could decide to take D&T's option of assuaging their pained consciences with a sports car, hookers, and blow. Or they could try to come out of this with reputations more or less intact and make a play to stay alive in the longer term.

cedivad

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I'm starting to think that you are correct. Sorry.

Quote

The MPP coverage extends to up to 400% of the capacity purchased. For a Baby Jet, with a nominal 400 Ghash/s capacity, the MPP is limited to sending an additional 1.6 Terrahash/s of additional ASIC hashing capacity, for a total of 2 Terahashes!

Capacity purchased = 400GH/BJ and is independent from what those BJ actually go at.

(2TH = 0.4*4 + 0.4)

minternj

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Sigh... I read it when it came out. I just read it again. I am a native English speaker, and to me it is extremely clear. It is very much what i like to call marketing talk. When stores over here in America advertise, they like to use the term " up to XX% off". When you get there you usually don't find anything that is XX% off. With that in mind the only clear # in there is the 2 TH number.

I'm not going to argue with your interpretation, you are free to it. As you should see, im not HF's biggest fan so take that into consideration when you read this.

cedivad

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Quote from: minternj on December 19, 2013, 07:09:46 PM

It's "up to 400%" which includes 0% to 400%... the upper limit in the terms is in plain text. it is not ambiguous or subject to interpretation.

Maybe you should try to read it again (all of it) to understand what that up to stands for.

minternj

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It's "up to 400%" which includes 0% to 400%... the upper limit in the terms is in plain text. it is not ambiguous or subject to interpretation.

cedivad

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Actual wording:

Quote

In fact, we will give you up to 400% more hashing capacity than the Baby Jet you purchased.

Explanation for people who don't want to bother to read:

Quote

Yes, that does mean that if you don’t make your money back in 90 days, we will increase your mining capacity to up to 2 Terahashes!

It will be 4 times the BJ. And from an HF point of view it would be just plain stupid to discuss it.

minternj

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Yes it is. Its written there in plain English.

Much like it was written originally that delivery date was October 20-30. It wasn't anticipated delivery. That was the delivery date not to be confused with refund date.

cedivad

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Quote from: minternj on December 19, 2013, 07:00:56 PM

Upper limit is 2TB. We can all agree the upper limit is hit. end of discussion.

The upper limit is not 2TB. Please try to read that again. It's not 2TH, either.

cedivad

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I wanted to answer that you just have to look at the exact wordings of their MPP, you don't need their HF_CL to come here and explain that to you. And i can confirm that, it's there for you to read. However this piece would have been a funny way to answer at those saying that the only possible delivery date has always been December:

Quote

Example 1 – You buy a Baby Jet from HashFast for 50 BTC and we ship it October 25th. By January 23, your machine has mined 60 BTC. You are happy and the miner protection is not needed.

minternj

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From the mpp:
"If the Bitcoin network hashrate increases so that your Baby Jet doesn’t generate more Bitcoins in ninety days than you paid for it, HashFast will give you additional ASICs. In fact, we will give you up to 400% more hashing capacity than the Baby Jet you purchased. Yes, that does mean that if you don’t make your money back in 90 days, we will increase your mining capacity to up to 2 Terahashes!"

Upper limit is 2TB. We can all agree the upper limit is hit. end of discussion.

jspielberg

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Quote from: cedivad on December 19, 2013, 06:50:17 PM

The MPP uses the BJ as a base unit. If the BJ does 5TH, the ceil limit of the MPP is 20TH.

I think hash fast said the same, though I am having trouble finding the quote.

itod

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^ Will code for Bitcoins

Quote from: mgio on December 19, 2013, 06:48:22 PM

Anyways, one would expect an extra 1600 GH/s or 4 more golden nonce chips.

But I bet HashFast is going to say that 1 BJ is 500GH/s so we will get 3 more golden nonce chips at 500 GH/s each.

Don't worry, 500Ghs are unimportant for the MPP. There's no chance BabyJets will mine enough to reduce MPP for one board. The KnC delivered their November batch completely, the difficulty goes sky-high tomorrow:

Code:

Estimated Next Difficulty:	1,200,705,546 (+32.19%)

cedivad

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The MPP uses the BJ as a base unit. If the BJ does 5TH, the ceil limit of the MPP is 20TH.

mgio

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Here is something that I've been thinking about...

The BabyJet was supposed to do 400GH/s at 300W.

It looks like it is going to be doing 500+GH/s at maybe 600W.

The MPP is supposed to give you double the hash power to break up even up to 2 TH/s. The details of the calculation aren't important, the amount is going to be the max the MPP will give definitely since they are so late.

Anyways, one would expect an extra 1600 GH/s or 4 more golden nonce chips.

But I bet HashFast is going to say that 1 BJ is 500GH/s so we will get 3 more golden nonce chips at 500 GH/s each.

In my opinion, that is wrong wrong wrong though because each golden nonce looks like it will draw 600W, about twice the power they promised.

So they are in fact overclocking each GN. They should dial down the power to 300W and then measure the hashrate and give use the MPP chips based on what that hashrate is.

They said themselves that they wouldn't assume we were over/under clocking when calculating the number of chips to give out for the MPP. But, in effect, by delivering the BJs at 600W power consumption they are delivering them "overclocked" already.

cedivad

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Quote from: Gyrsur on December 19, 2013, 06:34:37 PM

marketing BS as we always know. at least one area where they were sucessfull.

We must congratulate with john.
Wait, no, it's easy to have good sales if you promise the moon. So no, they can't even get that thing right.

crumbs

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Quote from: fubly on December 19, 2013, 06:08:13 PM

I bought 2000 Gh/s for 5600 USD!? Yes or No??

thx for feedback

It's "as low as $2.80/GH," but HF, in an effort to over-deliver, didn't settle for the bare minimum. They gave you way more dollars per GH/sec -- around $11.20