How are you going to get a refund anyway since they only took bitcoins and wire transfers?
They have no incentive to ship early.. you best find out if Ciara is shipping direct to customers or back to them.. if back to them, then they will mine until last week of Dec
You can ask for MPP in April
Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 484. (Read 880461 times)
Where are:
* Batch 2 (and beyond) order chains
* a live schedule that will allow you to follow the progress of the rigs, and better anticipate when yours will arrive. We’ll be updating the schedule in real time as we get the latest information.
* Batch 2 (and beyond) order chains
* a live schedule that will allow you to follow the progress of the rigs, and better anticipate when yours will arrive. We’ll be updating the schedule in real time as we get the latest information.
If they would have listed December 31 they would never have sold all units at these prices.
actually, i think most were sold after them adding this provision
True, but I'm talking about the Dec 31st date on the product page, not the terms and conditions page (since most people don't bother to read this)
I paid 59 BTC for my BJ so I feel like a proper fool now... Part of it my own fault of course (I did not expect network growth to go double exponential). But HF was only able to demand this kind of premium from Batch 1 customers because of the listed delivery dates of Oct 20-30. Time *is* Money. If they would have listed December 31 they would never have sold all units at these prices.
Nothing lost. You can (and should) ask for a refund.
If they would have listed December 31 they would never have sold all units at these prices.
actually, i think most were sold after them adding this provision
Unless the chips are being packaged by TMSC, they shouldn't be on schedule, the wafers should be out of TMSC's hands; bumped, diced and just sitting there waiting for the substrate.
Ninja, it looks like there wasn't a clause stating a refund policy in the latter posted policy. Maybe this was a clarification.
Well there was this:
Quote
Except for delivery dates explicitly guaranteed in the order confirmation, delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only, and Hashfast shall not be liable for, nor shall Hashfast be in breach of its obligations to Buyer because of any delivery made within a reasonable time before or after the stated delivery date.
A customer should be able to get a full refund if the delivery is not made within a reasonable time frame after the stated delivery date (Oct 20-30 at the time of my purchase). The question is what is a reasonable time frame for this type of product? Clearly since the majority of the profit is made in the first few weeks after purchase after which it quickly degenerates into a large and heavy paperweight I'd say reasonably short (a few weeks).
As integrity42 pointed out in the other HashFast thread, a 400GH/s miner is now expected to only mine ~15.3 BTC in a 1 year period (Starting Nov 23, assuming a 4 week delivery delay)
I paid 59 BTC for my BJ so I feel like a proper fool now... Part of it my own fault of course (I did not expect network growth to go double exponential). But HF was only able to demand this kind of premium from Batch 1 customers because of the listed delivery dates of Oct 20-30. Time *is* Money. If they would have listed December 31 they would never have sold all units at these prices.
Ninja, it looks like there wasn't a clause stating a refund policy in the latter posted policy. Maybe this was a clarification.
They told me this:
I didn't save my order confirmation page, so I have no idea if it was there or not, but that's what they're telling me. If someone has a saved copy, please post it and I'll ask them about it.
Quote
- This is the explicit provision given in the order confirmation:
"All of the 550 Baby Jet units from HashFast's first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by
December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date,
then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer's request and HashFast will refund the payment for the units
that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for
HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date, and Buyer must cancel the order by January 15, 2014 to avail itself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs."
"All of the 550 Baby Jet units from HashFast's first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by
December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date,
then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer's request and HashFast will refund the payment for the units
that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for
HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date, and Buyer must cancel the order by January 15, 2014 to avail itself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs."
I didn't save my order confirmation page, so I have no idea if it was there or not, but that's what they're telling me. If someone has a saved copy, please post it and I'll ask them about it.
So, what I got when I ordered on Aug 8 was:
- 1) An Order Receipt from HashFast titled 'Your Hash Fast order receipt from August 9, 2013' (It has the text 'Hash Fash' at the bottom)
- 2) An invoice and receipt from BitPay with Hash Fast on the header. 'Order has been paid in full'.
Of course I had to agree to the Terms of Sale and I saved a copy here: http://pastebin.com/EfS9vmRf
This I thought concluded the Sale. Note that the Dec 31st date was not present anywhere just the late October shipping date.
However, on August 15 (A week later) I got an additional email titled 'HashFast Order Confirmation' that did contain the new legal boilerplate:
Quote
This Order Confirmation and the sales of all product, licenses and services by HashFast are be governed by the HashFast terms and conditions.
Your order is expected to ship between October 20 and October 30, 2013. Physical delivery of your order will take place within days, depending on the shipment method selected. HashFast guarantees that all "Baby Jet" units from our first production batch will be delivered by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more Baby Jet units, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may at his or her discretion, cancel the undelivered portion and HashFast will issue a full refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date. Buyer must cancel the order and request a refund by January 15, 2014 to avail him or herself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs on units delivered.
Your order is expected to ship between October 20 and October 30, 2013. Physical delivery of your order will take place within days, depending on the shipment method selected. HashFast guarantees that all "Baby Jet" units from our first production batch will be delivered by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more Baby Jet units, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may at his or her discretion, cancel the undelivered portion and HashFast will issue a full refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date. Buyer must cancel the order and request a refund by January 15, 2014 to avail him or herself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs on units delivered.
Clearly between Aug 8 and 15 they decided to update the ToS with the Dec 31st date and send out a new 'Order Confirmation' for this purpose.
Personally, I find this a bit dishonest as now we are talking semantics like 'what is the difference between an order receipt and an order confirmation?' or which ToS applies: The one the user agreed to at the time of sale, or the updated terms in the order confirmation that was sent only after they took the customers money?
Please note: I dont think anyone here would disagree that we would have made more 'money' had we just used the investment to purchase bitcoins instead of hardware!
that being said... It is one hell of a ride!
Thanks for the information. Will take everything you said into account.
Can someone explain to me honestly if it is better to buy Batch one bj backorder with MMP or the batch 2 seirra for the same price without MPP.
I am looking to invest all the money i have in mining,
Thank You for your time.
I am looking to invest all the money i have in mining,
Thank You for your time.
Well there isn't enough info available to know for sure, but Batch 1 has been delayed (at least until 15 Nov) and nothing has been said about Batch 2. If due to Batch 1 delay, Batch 2 ships at the same time or right after Batch 1 then getting a Sierra is far superior. On the other hand if Batch 1 delay means a 2-3 week delay for Batch 2 then it is looking pretty grim. I will point out that more than one batch 1 customers have tried to have their orders upgraded to Batch 2 Sierras (paying the difference in cost) given the delay. Also a lot depends on how quickly it takes for a batch to be shipped. If the first Batch 1 ships on day X and the last one ships on day x+5 that is great (as you will be at the end) on the other hand if the last unit doesn't ship until X+30 well that is not as good.
Short version: Nobody other than HF can tell you for sure and even then there may be factors beyond their control. If I was forced to pick one over the other right this second (based on the limited infor available) ... I would pick Batch 2 Sierra. Please understand that is just the better "bet" given limited information it may turn out that Batch 1 is better. Be sure to use a mining calculator before making any purchase from ANY vendor.
Can someone explain to me honestly if it is better to buy Batch one bj backorder with MMP or the batch 2 seirra for 2k more without MPP.
Thank You for your time.
Thank You for your time.
3) Should customers be concerned they indicated at 2 week delay but now seem to be pushing the "31 DEC" date heavily?
Either they delivery before the 31 of Dec or they are bankrupted, there are not many other possibilities from their point of view... I didn't save my order confirmation page, so I have no idea if it was there or not, but that's what they're telling me. If someone has a saved copy, please post it and I'll ask them about it.
They aren't referring to your order confirmation page, but to the order invoice they sent you. The one with one page of invoice and 5 pages of contracts.also tl;dr, they have a pile of my money too at this point, so I'm trying to figure out what I can.
Well, no offense intended, but the pile of my money they have is bigger, and i'm not sure i would want to use the discounts they are giving you if i where you.
Some questions.
1) When does Hashfast anticipate first shipment of batch 1?
2) When Hashfast begins shipping Batch 1 how long do they anticipate it will take to ship all Batch 1 orders?
3) Should customers be concerned they indicated at 2 week delay but now seem to be pushing the "31 DEC" date heavily?
4) When does Hashfast anticipate first shipment of batch 2? If date can't be provided aproximate time after #2 will work.
2) When Hashfast begins shipping Batch 2 how long do they anticipate it will take to ship all Batch 2 orders?
1) When does Hashfast anticipate first shipment of batch 1?
2) When Hashfast begins shipping Batch 1 how long do they anticipate it will take to ship all Batch 1 orders?
3) Should customers be concerned they indicated at 2 week delay but now seem to be pushing the "31 DEC" date heavily?
4) When does Hashfast anticipate first shipment of batch 2? If date can't be provided aproximate time after #2 will work.
2) When Hashfast begins shipping Batch 2 how long do they anticipate it will take to ship all Batch 2 orders?
also tl;dr, they have a pile of my money too at this point, so I'm trying to figure out what I can.
congrats on getting the job,
So you haven't answered anything we didn't already know. unless your saying batch 1 baby jets will ship with the MPP.
They're saying it'll ship within 90 days of the ship date of the hardware, and the quantity of hardware you get is dependent on the network hash rate at the time of shipping up to 400% of your original order So you haven't answered anything we didn't already know. unless your saying batch 1 baby jets will ship with the MPP.
Also, you are now publicly stating that the end of this year was always the promised shipping date while that date wasn't even present for the first half of batch 1 customers.
How can one even...? Why am i losing this time arguing with walls in a forum?
They told me this:
Quote
- This is the explicit provision given in the order confirmation:
"All of the 550 Baby Jet units from HashFast's first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by
December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date,
then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer's request and HashFast will refund the payment for the units
that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for
HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date, and Buyer must cancel the order by January 15, 2014 to avail itself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs."
"All of the 550 Baby Jet units from HashFast's first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by
December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date,
then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer's request and HashFast will refund the payment for the units
that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for
HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date, and Buyer must cancel the order by January 15, 2014 to avail itself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs."
I didn't save my order confirmation page, so I have no idea if it was there or not, but that's what they're telling me. If someone has a saved copy, please post it and I'll ask them about it.
Quote
1. On prices for the first batch: First batch comes with MPP and will be received before all the second batch is, so the first batch is expected to make greater returns in BTC than the second batch products with both the original item and the MPP (their MPP will ship first, too).
Everyone agrees with me that this is nonsense, right? Because we measure % return, not absolute return over hashrate, right?Quote
Quote
2. TSMC: Everything is on schedule. Everything else is under NDA. Ask specific questions and I'll see if I can get them answered, given that they don't violate the NDA.
Can you show us the NDA? Anyway how can everything be on schedule since that you are late with the chips that are being manufactured at TSMC?Quote
Quote
3. Hashfast states that Dec 31 was always the agreed to date in the terms of sale, and that this will be honoured.
The shipping date was at the end of this month, but yes, let's change the reality to our needs. That date will be honoured? What about every date that was promised until now? Like, will the mid november date be honoured? No, right? When will you start to prepare us for that?Quote
Quote
4. Pictures are forthcoming and apparently need to be approved by CIARA and/or TSMC and/or whoever else is involved, and this is the reason there aren't many yet.
How is exactly CIARA or TSMC involved with the PCB?What a great idea to hide behind the fact that you never had a PCB ready for the end of this month.
They didn't name names, but I assumed they were responsible (mea culpa if they're unrelated). I can ask if they have the PCB designed and what stage it's in.
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