I don't have 1/2 mill to fling around, but would want to know MUCH more about how many chips I might get for my money and what total projected production was. 10K chips might be worth 1k a piece, but 200,000 damn sure aren't.... and you'd want cast iron guarantees that they're not gonna do another run of chips in sooner than 12 months say if you pay 1k a chip.
Because basically if it's unlimited production, they've just made 100Gh only "worth" as much in projected ROI as 1Gh is right now... that's how this crap works, gonna go two powers of ten higher in speed, well it's worth two powers of ten less per hash by the time it's applied to the network.
But, should they go ahead and assume the gullibility and lack of math skills of the community will allow them to ask $1000 for unlimited numbers of chips, then I'd advise everyone to step out of BTC for the 3-6 months, watch the train wreck then pick up the pieces after with a new algorithm.
Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 577. (Read 880816 times)
Amazing they are proposing minimum reservation of USD $500k
and more to the point Simon is confirming that the offer is legit:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2824122
and more to the point Simon is confirming that the offer is legit:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2824122
Be careful, no specs on the miner and no working model of the miner and they want to collect big bucks. Tradehill probably will definitely side with them in any disputes.
I'm more than careful, but also if I were crazy I wouldn't have 500K bucks to spend
Anyway the thing that really amaze me is that Simon Barber, http://www.linkedin.com/in/simonresume, is confirming announcement's validity.
Amazing they are proposing minimum reservation of USD $500k
and more to the point Simon is confirming that the offer is legit:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2824122
and more to the point Simon is confirming that the offer is legit:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2824122
these guys are a serious joke
lol
Hmm $500.000 for a minimum order. They say they will sell chips wholesale, so it means not ready-to-hash devices?
The question that still remains, how much will each individual chip cost, resulting in which price for a ready-to-hash device? I don't think that an averagely serious miner is ready to pay more than $10.000 - $15.000 for one device. We need more handfast info.
Otherwise, I am afraid it will look like this:
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2006-05-19/
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2006-04-27/
The question that still remains, how much will each individual chip cost, resulting in which price for a ready-to-hash device? I don't think that an averagely serious miner is ready to pay more than $10.000 - $15.000 for one device. We need more handfast info.
Otherwise, I am afraid it will look like this:
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2006-05-19/
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2006-04-27/
Amazing they are proposing minimum reservation of USD $500k
and more to the point Simon is confirming that the offer is legit:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2824122
and more to the point Simon is confirming that the offer is legit:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2824122
Be careful, no specs on the miner and no working model of the miner and they want to collect big bucks. Tradehill probably will definitely side with them in any disputes.
Amazing they are proposing minimum reservation of USD $500k
and more to the point Simon is confirming that the offer is legit:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2824122
and more to the point Simon is confirming that the offer is legit:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2824122
That was weird. A new member Gridfinity started a thread announcing one day to purchase hashfast chips and then his post was erased.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264113.new#new
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264113.new#new
It seems that I'm able to see the post you were referring to here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/gridfinity-140898
a screenshot just in case:
http://imgur.com/RTtd5rM
As well as thread 264113, there's also this thread 264175 with similar info on $500k minimum order size (and a free trip to San Jose?):
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hashfast-400ghs-asic-chips-under-1watt-per-ghs-264175
---------------------
Look at the Competition, Please Look at the Competition
HashFast 400GH/s ASIC Chips @ under 1Watt per GH/s
Gridfinity.com is working with HashFast to assist earliest wholesale customers and ensure on-time delivery of your order for these gamechanging ASIC chips. Outstanding prices if you order and pay by July 31th 2013. Minimum reservation: USD $500k (or equivalent in bitcoin) in escrow account (see below). For details, call (415) 480-4921 and leave a voice message for Daniel Bateman, Managing Director at Gridfinity LLC. Stay tuned for the video that introduces the rock-solid team behind the 400GH/s ASIC chips. Click here to learn more about Uniquify and their recent announcement.
For the largest order received by end of day Wednesday July 31st 2013, Gridfinity.com will pay for your flight to San Jose and we’ll provide two nights hotel accommodations, so that you can meet the HashFast team and tour the office at Uniquify.
*For those interested in orders below USD $500k, send an SMS (text) message to (415) 480-4921 with the approximate USD amount that you would like to contribute to a group buy. We will get back to you if a credible group buy arrangement materializes.
**Funds are to be deposited into a Tradehill escrow account - customer can verify directly with Tradehill. We spoke with Ryan at Tradehill on Friday, and we are going in tomorrow (Monday) morning to finalize details.
That was weird. A new member Gridfinity started a thread announcing one day to purchase hashfast chips and then his post was erased.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264113.new#new
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264113.new#new
It seems that I'm able to see the post you were referring to here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/gridfinity-140898
a screenshot just in case:
http://imgur.com/RTtd5rM
What is the size of your chip? What kind of package are you going to use? Any thermal problems you have thought and solved? I still feel hard to believe such a condensed designed chip. Can you explain a little bit why is it possible?
That was weird. A new member Gridfinity started a thread announcing one day to purchase hashfast chips and then his post was erased.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264113.new#new
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264113.new#new
Smart, honest and amicable people can exist anywhere on this planet. They are traits earned through being inquisitive and wanting to learn, whilst upholding values and integrity.
Yes, and we often recognize each other through the focused yet civilized language that we post.
Cheers Prof! I think...
No body want a pre order , Avalon and Butterfly have turn out to be nothing but S..M with all their non deliveries and excuses.
My Avalon is hashing. Statistics are visible to anyone.
If they had a plan, why would they share it with you? ... But once they have the chips, why would they sell them?
I'll give you one reason, and then I have to go. Cross-currency fungibility. If someone (a rich person) were to mine thousands and thousands of bitcoins, and didn't want to have to walk around wearing a "bitcoin millionaire" tee shirt, she has to repatriate those things into the currency(-ies) in which she counts her wealth.Right now, the risks in getting those things repatriated is very real, from the standpoint of liquidity and low-cost transactions, all the way through to attracting unwelcome attention of governments.
On the other hand, if she currently sells the present value (or greater) of the potential self-mining earnings, and gets paid for that in her home currency, then the fungibility problems are vastly reduced.
Smart, honest and amicable people can exist anywhere on this planet. They are traits earned through being inquisitive and wanting to learn, whilst upholding values and integrity.
Yes, and we often recognize each other through the focused yet civilized language that we post.
--Of course, so why do you believe any private VC would touch a project in the millions of dollars so risky with a ten foot barge pole?! They wouldn't. Failure to deliver on time could screw them massively. If you raise via pre-orders individuals spread the risk as opposed to one entity assuming all the risk and potential catastrophic failure of their business. That risk will vary in greatness from person to person, but it is totally up to them to come to terms with that and educate themselves on what the project entails. The risk is failure to deliver on time, which despite all best intentions, still exists due to a miscellany of unknowns.
The whole point of VCs is to invest in risky ventures. Basically they figure 9/10 of their investments will fail, and 1 of them will IPO and pay for all the others. Look at the guys who invested in Instagram for nothing and sold it for a billion dollars.
However, I maintain my lament -little more than a cry in the wilderness, I know- that nobody, yet, has come with a plan that can secure the funding to bring the retail equipment business to the next step - buy and ship. The truth is, that won't happen until hardware commoditises, and that won't happen until the network again plateaus.
If they had a plan, why would they share it with you?
In the real world securing a few million dollars of funding is not that hard if you're rich. Imagine if you're the guy who sold that Pizza for 10k btc back in the day. If you never ended up selling them, you could easily fund an ASIC design today, and the manufacturing needed to build miners. But, and this is the point: you would have no need to sell them to anyone at a reasonable price
Don't you understand? There are lots of people who can afford to design and fabricate ASICs without raising money at all, or just borrowing money from a few of their friends (who might be VCs). Those people are called rich people.
But once they have the chips, why would they sell them?
If "28nm ASIC," "we're working on it" & "pre-order nao" make you want to reach for your wallet, i'd say mortgage the house & go all in. But 28nm is so last week -- i'm *just about ready* to tapeout mah 14nm design. So eat my bitdust, HashFast luddites.
Do you have a letter from a reputable chip design company stating that the chip they are working on the design of is on track to work?
I'm not at liberty to discuss particulars due to the sensitive nature of this project. If noobs like you were privy to the details of our seeecrit meetings, our bleeding-edge 14nm technology would be as passe as your ancient 28nm silicon scrap. How do you guys make those archaic 28nm masks, some rubylith and a dull exacto blade?
Hashfast will more than likely require some form of pre-order to the public, but past performances of other companies is no reason to discredit them.
Most decidedly, I'm not trying to discredit them. They, alongside KnC, are the next step, not only in technology, but also in business: transparency, evident professionalism, promise of really being a business. However, I maintain my lament -little more than a cry in the wilderness, I know- that nobody, yet, has come with a plan that can secure the funding to bring the retail equipment business to the next step - buy and ship. The truth is, that won't happen until hardware commoditises, and that won't happen until the network again plateaus.
In the meantime, the song lyric I misquoted above is (Larry Gatlin):
Some play the game to lose, some play the game to win The winners walk out laughing, the losers cry, deal again
If "28nm ASIC," "we're working on it" & "pre-order nao" make you want to reach for your wallet, i'd say mortgage the house & go all in. But 28nm is so last week -- i'm *just about ready* to tapeout mah 14nm design. So eat my bitdust, HashFast luddites.
Do you have a letter from a reputable chip design company stating that the chip they are working on the design of is on track to work?
--Of course, so why do you believe any private VC would touch a project in the millions of dollars so risky with a ten foot barge pole?!
The basic problem isn't just the risk in the project dynamics, it's in bitcoin itself. If the thing being mined were ... oh, I don't know, say diatomaceous earth, and you put together a business plan that said with minimal physical risk you could guarantee a minimum level of production of X tons per day for at the next Y years, do you think VC would look at it?
Sure they would, and if X*Y*365 induced free cash flow that matched will with the M million dollars required, the deal would be done over dinner in San Jose. But if they're not sure bitcoin won't be attacked and squashed by central banks and international law enforcement, then it's a harder sale, and you might have to shop until you find someone willing to bet on bitcoin being around.
Would the same is true if you showed them the evidence of a diatomaceous earth interest bubble, and a regulatory environment which encourages a rush, and you proposed selling mining equipment what was sexier and more marketable than anything else out there?
Ah, now that depends on whether they believe you might get blindsided by an even sexier and more marketable widget while busy building out. In this case, they might still pick up the dinner check in San Jose, but they'd have to go home to sleep on it.
Completely agree, which is why the informed layperson/geek is willing to take such risk albeit at a more manageable size for themselves. Furthermore their disdain for private central banks, and government corruption post '08 as well as their associated tax revenues being spent on propaganda and associated warfare in the last two decades as opposed to education and healtcare propels the more morally concerned to rebel against such abuse.
That said absolutely there will be sexier and more marketable offerings within time, and by the rate at which interest has increased subsequent to the media spotlight that was turned upon Bitcoin during the ECB's theft of Cypriot civilian funds, it is likely to be a very short period before such offerings appear. This is why I haven't invested more than a proportional amount that I'm prepared to risk with any one entity at any one time. That's common sense.
Hashfast will more than likely require some form of pre-order to the public, but past performances of other companies is no reason to discredit them. With respect to all involved I consistently see forum members here who fear pre-orders due to being burnt in the past because a) they didn't perform any reasonable due diligence of the parties involved, b) risked more than they were prepared to lose, citing the fact they weren't prepared to lose only after they unfortunately lost out
--There is no riskier method of purchase for a customer than a pre-order. None.
So? People who take risks are the ones who get rich. The less risk, the less potential profit.
Quote
There is only one reason to prefer pre-order:
As soon as someone has paid (remember the frequently posted "shut up and take my money" cartoon image) the dream of riches can kick in immediately. For many, that dream is many times more powerful than rational business sense.
The good news for those who want their Dream-fix sooner rather than later: this is going to be a pre-order; that was established on the original thread by about the third post.
As soon as someone has paid (remember the frequently posted "shut up and take my money" cartoon image) the dream of riches can kick in immediately. For many, that dream is many times more powerful than rational business sense.
The good news for those who want their Dream-fix sooner rather than later: this is going to be a pre-order; that was established on the original thread by about the third post.
No, pre-orders are better because they are cheaper. Unlike most goods, bitcoin mining hardware can make money for the people who manufacture it, even if they don't sell it. So in order for them to sell it, they need to charge more then they think they would make themselves. But, with a pre-order, you are sharing the risk and thus you share the profits, if the people you pre-order from know what they're doing.
Jump to: