Topic: HashFast launches sales of the Baby Jet - page 21. (Read 119626 times)

Yes, trying with "actual facts" that one can buy the same KnC hashrate with refunds, and when pointed out with fact you actually can't reverting to personal insults. Not to mention stating that KnC is not overclocked from 400 to 500-550 GHs because "they are using normal heatsinks". It's a laugh, here's a video of KnC owners bragging about advertised hashrate (250-400) and actual (500-550):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFOcI8nK2xI

Please spare me with your arrogant style insulting everyone who doesn't agree with you.

As DeathandTaxes once said, don't shoot the messenger.

I'm just trying to help you fix you delusional state of mind with current actual facts.

I won't get into your "Mining Long After That" when you are talking about Satoshi Dust,

Again, don't let my facts get in the way of your pity party. No matter how upset you might be the math is clear and never wrong.

Yeah, and you know the best. Comparing apples and oranges, ASICMiner Gen 1 witch will be turned off in the first half of 2014 cause of power consumption with 28nm energy efficient chips which will mine long after that.

You've missed the point of my post, but keep spreading "information" in the thread for hardware you haven't even bought at all. Don't let the "information" you've spread in TerraHash thread change your useful contributions.

They literally sold out this morning

What world are you living in that you believe KnC won't have a new batch?

The Jupiters are not overclocked LOL (they are using normal heatsinks)

They are 500 Nominal (Most should be above this slightly) (Even though they advertise 550GH on their product page)

I don't personally care if you order from KnC, Bitfury, BFL, or anyone that point is that you are spreading much misinformation and that 1.6, 2, even 3TH by End of January will be cheaper than the baby jet was in terms of BTC more then likely.

Hell ASICMiner is selling a "30GH - 38GH "Overclocked" for 1.99BTC - http://www.wtcr.ca/catalog/product/bm-ambec-01 - Ships Approximately November 14th

For the 50BTC you spent, you could be getting 750GH - 950GH in November already!

Somehow I still think you will miss the point.

Wrong, KnC November is sold out and there probably will not be new batch since they never announced anything but going to new technology. You can try Cointerra but that's uncertain also.

Regarding 1.6 or 2TH hashrate of 4 modules it's yet to be seen. Would be very surprised if they can't be overclocked like 500-550 Jupiters you've mentioned. They were 400 nominal also.

You are giving up 1.6TH for Free, it's 4x 400GH Modules

Baby Jets were ~50 BTC when they went up for sale I believe (Can't remember for sure)

That 50 BTC is now $15750 - $315 Exchange price on Coinbase

You could literally buy 3x KnC 500-550 November Jupiters for that and have ~1.5TH in November and you don't think that end of Jan/Beginning of Feb Delivery will get you much much more at that time?

They may as well do that and many on this thread would be surprised with the results. Accepting the refund means you are giving up additional 2TH for free on Feb 1st. Good luck buying those 2TH with refunded BTC for less, considering end of Jan/beginning of Feb delivery. Maybe the refund is safer way, but I bet many people would not accept refunds. They bought miners in the first place because they don't want BTC sitting in their wallets. Announcing MPP starts Oct 30th changed many things.

The road to customer goodwill for Hashfast seems pretty clear to me:

1) Offer full refunds to batch 1 customers.
2) Ship Batch 2 order (and following batches) on time (thanks to not having to ship 5x the batch 1 orders because of the MPP).

That way batch 2 and following get their equipment on time, if they don't get a good ROI, they have only themselves to blame.
Batch 1 customer should be ecstatic of not having lost 50%+ of their money. (Even with the MPP I expect the ROI to be less than 50% for batch 1 customers.)

BTW you only need to achieve less than 33% of your cost to get the 4x hashing power (not less than 25%):
***  From Hashfast MPP page:

So if you achieve 33% or less, it would have taken an extra 2x the hashing power to break even, so they double that and send you an extra 4x.
I'm surprised D&T didn't catch that, he/she/it  is usually good with numbers and details.

Well, call me old-fashioned and naive, but my impression is that the folks at Hashfast have more moral fiber, more mature personal goals, and most importantly, more self-respect than Josh, and I think that matters.

People were essentially blindsided by BFL's perfidy - no experience with dishonesty on the BFL scale before.  They didn't know what to do, especially the arrested development libertardian geek types who can't reason well enough to wipe their own behinds.

Check the other thread for people, already burned once, rushing to man the barricades to sue HF.  If HF fails on the MPP, some of that won't be just idle threat. People have learned, the community has learned, through experience.

Hell, I haven't mentioned this before, because it's totally not my frame of mind.  But for one thing, if Hashfast screws its MPP buyers, they'd have me to deal with. I f@ck with companies and large institutions for a living... done it professionally for 20 years. Companies a lot bigger than Hashfast, and projects with a dollar value mucho más grande que US $3m worth of ASIC hardware. You win some and you lose some, but I can f'n guarantee you that I'd cause them public relations and legal pain. Not cheap show-grousing on an internet forum.

Anyway, I don't think I'm going to need to do that.  BFL kind of assholery won't go on.  To survive, if the whole model of the citizen-miner survives, these companies are going to have to do things differently and develop non-hateful relationships with their customers.  KnC seems to be leading the way. HF is working to follow. At least that's my bet.

              

BFL 2.0?  Seriously?  I didn't know BFL is dead already?  Didn't they just receive $1 million downpayment for a big commerical order?  I guess that's not good enough in your eyes.  BFL 1.0 screwed at least 10x as many customers and 10x the delay as HF aka BFL 2.0  But yet I don't see people stop buying from BFL despite their undeniable worst ASIC company reputation.  Point is, it doesn't matter if HashFast "take" care of their Batch 1 MPP customers because if they have got a real product to sell at a competitive price, new customers (and even some old ones) will continue to buy from them.

I wouldn't put the limit for Batch 1 customers at 4 modules.  Hashfast is in a complex situation for sure, but the MPP's underlying pledge is cost recovery in 90 days.  Yes, there is verbiage about "up to 400%", but that should be contextualized bearing in mind the promise to double any shortfall in hashpower.***

At the point that the MPP kicks in, if Hashfast remains a viable entity (and I certainly hope it does), the boards themselves won't be costing them a hell of a lot. I sure hope they are upping their orders now.

So when late January rolls around, I think that rather being in the position of having dragged their first customers through this painful process for months, only to have the MPP not achieve ROI and have us screaming bloody murder at precisely the time that they finally will probably have significant hardware in hand to sell, the decent and relatively painless thing to do, if necessary, will be to quickly toss in additional boards so that people at least break even.  

It's kind of death or glory for them.  If the MPP fails, they are BFL 2.0.  If they do what it takes for the MPP to at least leave its customers breaking even, they go down as the good guys that protected their early customers through an incredibly turbulent time.  Earned goodwill.  Imagine that.

And they will probably hew as close as humanly possible to promised delivery date on non-MPP Batch 2+ orders, because who can fault them for the network hashrate?  Those machines were bought wholly at-risk and, if delivered on time, nobody can reasonably consider them not achieving ROI to be Hashfast's fault.

Goes without saying that the MPP is dead for future sales.  I also think they will exit presales ASAP.

Basically, as I see it, the MPP customers are now going to form a pretty special class of 'stakeholders' in Hashfast.  Although I think we should remain wary, instead of bashing them, we should really hope they make it, because I think they will make us whole if they survive.


***  From Hashfast MPP page: "You buy a Baby Jet for 50 BTC, and we ship it on October 25th.  January 23, 2014 comes and goes, and it turns out that at the Baby Jet’s nominal hashrate, it would only have generated 25 BTC during that 90 day period.  Calculated out, it would have taken an additional 400 Ghash/s of capacity shipped with your Baby Jet on October 25, 2013 to generate 50 BTC. We can’t go back in time to give you that 400Ghash/s. Instead, HashFast will double that and give you 800 Ghash/s in additional capacity. In this example, HashFast will give you two additional Golden Nonce ASICs, each with 400 nominal GHash/s."

There is no deadline for when they have to ship the MPP. This could be the biggest problem as of now.

If MPP is going to kick in Feb 1st...HashFast needs to stockpile their hardware and stop taking orders for late January delivery. Chinese New Year is Jan 31st. Ideally, HashFast would have everything ready to ship by early January otherwise there will be significant additional delays. Get your shit together.

And you are right.
But it's always better than having the BJ the 30 of December and the MPP somewhere in april.
We went from 20 to 30% of roi in my fooled mind. It's not that bad.

I don't see how anyone will break even, even with a 4-module MPP delivery 90 days later.

KnC dominated with a 70% total hashrate increase for October.  KnC November begins soon to take it up more.

BitFury's next round of chips will be in even greater quantity than their first offering to add to the hashrate ponzi.

Bad news for Baby Fap's.  People should take their refunds after December 28th.  I feel sorry for Batch 2 & Batch 3.  Yikes.  That is many difficulty changes away.

Well it depends on when Batch 2 ships.  Remember Batch 1 was much cheaper even with MPP.  Batch 1 is going to ship at least 6 weeks late so making the MPP retroactive isn't some huge windfall but more the least they could do.   If Batch 2 is heavily delayed as well then they may be worse off but if they ship on time or right after Batch 1 they may even come out ahead.

[/quote]

Ah, okay, sorry, I'm just getting home... I guess this is bad news for the people who bought Batch 2 with MPP.

I'll run this by my contact and see if she can confirm everyone is on the same page

I agree I just thought I would cover the bases so on the miracle chance it ends up higher than someone doesn't say "D&T that liar he said we would guaranteed get 4 extra boards".   I would bet money it end up being 4 boards shipped per original board for the MPP at least for Batch 1.  Batch 2 & 3 well that might be a little different depending on when they actually ship.

Hashfast clarified today that the MPP begins on 30 OCT for Batch 1.

HashFast Production Update
Miner Protection Program
For those of you covered under the Miner Protection Program™ (https://hashfast.com/miner-protection-program/), this delay will not affect the starting point from which benefits are calculated. For First Batch Baby Jets, the start date of the program will be retroactive to October 30th. We want to make sure a delayed ship date does not reduce the value of the program.[/quote]