Topic: Have Satoshi dream failed? - page 5. (Read 1084 times)

The network is good as itself.  It has never been tampered and the borderless frictionless transfers are still in effect.  People can still transact with Bitcoin without any need for a financial institution.  These taxes is created by the government and is not part of the Bitcoin original ecosystem.  People got subjected to tax if they link their accounts to centralized exchanges which is not part of Satoshi's plan.  There are decentralized exchanges that can be used to avoid the government from tracking our Bitcoin holdings. 

In short, the dreams of Satoshi Nakamoto don't fail yet, it is that the government has its own way to meddle with centralized institutions but if we avoid these institutions, we can avoid this taxation stuff.

Hasn't tax existed long before even bitcoin existed?
I think something new requires a process and in this case it doesn't mean that with bitcoin the tax will disappear immediately because in this case the bitcoin policy is still hampered.
On the other hand, currently there are several countries that actually have very low taxes or maybe even completely free, but that doesn't mean that all countries have to follow it directly because in this case it takes time, of course, especially for some small countries, taxes are always one of the budgets. which has indeed been converted into infrastructure to maintain and develop the country.

When I saw your topic and opened it I read little through the body I thought you were about to say something that I always complain about which is how satoshi's initial idea has been defeated.
Satoshi created bitcoin to be a currency for transaction and buying and selling, but today what we see is that bitcoin has turned an asset for investments where we hold for a long time to enable it appreciate and people now praises people that are able to hold for a very long time instead of spending.

Back to your topic the idea of Bitcoin is not to evade task.
If you earn a living through bitcoin that means you should also pay necessary taxation that follows.

This is not a failed project, its just that we are already on a different timeline and this is a proof that we can’t totally escape from the control of the government especially on paying such taxes. This is still a great revolutionary project, Satoshi did a great job on this and his legacy will be forever remembered. Bitcoin will continue to rise, and mass adoption will still happen. There are still way here to remain anonymous, and beside Satoshi’s dream is to give financial access to those who can’t afford to open an bank account and I think he already achieved that goal.

Most countries do not tax your holdings. I don't know where it's taxed like that but in the EU your "taxable event" is the moment you exchange bitcoin into fiat money, goods or services. Otherwise you don't have to tell anyone that you own anything.

Bitcoin gives you freedom of choice. If you live in a country that heavily regulates or taxes bitcoin, move somewhere else and have fun with no taxes, like in German

At some point most countries will have taxed bitcoin in some way, most likely in the form of income tax from gains, but that doesn't mean it's a failure. You're your own bank, you can spend at any moment, any day of the week, you don't have to wait, transactions are easy to verify and visible for everyone and you are anonymous, despite what some people are saying.
When I get my coins from a signature campaign on the forum and decide to go to an ATM that allows me to exchange for cash without KYC up to a certain limit - I'm anonymous. It's the same with store purchases. If I decide to spend my coins at a place that accepts bitcoin I'm anonymous. They can see my face, but they don't know my name, DOB or any other thing about me.

Satoshi's desire to successfully create bitcoin as P2P payment system hasn't failed. Satoshi's the reason altcoins & tokens exist today Satoshi didn't fail. Citizens paying taxes is law differing in country to country. Satoshi didn't create Bitcoins for tax reasons.

Did you know some countries residents aren't required to pay income tax https://www.investopedia.com/countries-without-income-taxes-5071965

Perhaps the primary goal was to offer a potential solution to people in a small area, but the technology spread throughout the world and many people saw it as a means of independence for their income and personal wealth. Governments also joined the argument for its legalization, which is why they tax cryptocurrency users in some countries because the citizens benefit from the digital currency and have a legal obligation to do so in order for the government to meet their basic needs, which also include providing for them.

As long you wont be converting it to fiat then you cant really be txes.As long you dont make use of  centralized platforms then you cant really be taxed.So this means that dream failure that you've been saying

isnt still happening.It is really just that government is really imposing up much more stricter laws and regulation in against with decentralized stuff including Bitcoin.
And since they cant really do it literally then there are no other ways but to touch up or on get involvement with those centralized platforms.
Also, we have seen that lots of countries are trying out to impose taxes or trying out to get a good hold towards crypto and charge up everything
but we arent able to see that they are succeeding on this in regard.Therefore, its not really just that right that you would be saying that Satoshi had failed.
I would say that he do failed on the time that Bitcoin becomes worthless.

So in your vision bitcoin was developed to avoid taxation? It was never supposed to do that, it was created as a mean of allowing people to send and receive value without the need for a third party, Satoshi never claimed anything about tax avoidance not in the whitepaper, not in his posts on this board.


Put an end, no, no way that's going to happen!
Before the bank and centralized exchanges existed how were taxes imposed, in times like the middle ages for example when everything was genuinely peer to peer? Just because you hide your coins in your pocket you think you will avoid taxation, pretty curious about those "findings" hat let you believe that.
What happens when you buy a car, a hotdog, or a bus ticket, you pay VAT! What happens when your income shows $12k a year but you bought a $100k home or a $10k car, do you think that if the government wants to track you for reel for any sum they won't be able to do so?  You can't eat coins, you can't drink them, and can't live in one, sooner or later you will have to get them from your wallet and purchase things in the real world and that's when taxation will start.

Taxations will only end when the government will stop them, you would be amazed how easily they will find ways to tax whatever you own no matter what you use.

Not really related. Governments will always try to tax everything they can, as good as they can.
In some countries holding is taxed, in other countries only the capital gains (in fiat) are taxed.
People can hide their coins from the government, it's not that hard, but it can be seen as tax evasion and that's illegal.

Satoshi's dream was to give the right tools to avoid the banks if we want to. Taxation is, as you see, not necessarily related to this.
So Satoshi's dream didn't fail. Even more, the things are actually getting better in that direction, ie the number of entities accepting bitcoins for their goods and services is increasing.

If you understand the government and how it operates, imposing taxes or regulations on bitcoin should not surprise you. They believe that if one makes an investment, they should receive a portion of the profits. Bitcoin is here to put an end to that, and everyone will have complete control over their money. Only centralized exchanges allow governments to extract taxes from your money, according to findings. Nonetheless, each country has its own taxation prices, which can be favorable in some places and harsh in others. All of this, I believe, is done to threaten the existence of bitcoin, but despite this, it continues to thrive.

Did Satoshi say we shouldn't pay taxes or that bitcoin is for tax evasion? The white paper stipulates ending dependence on a third party. You do not need to trust anyone to conduct transactions, which is different from the current systems that need to trust a third party.

• Bitcoin is supposed to be decentralized, so Satoshi's vision no longer has meaning.
• Even if Satoshi returns, he will not be able to change the protocol.

Satoshi Nakamoto dream didn't failed because there are some countries that want to be part of the benefits of Bitcoin by involving tax to the users, so that they will know how important it is to the government. Those countries that imposed tax on Bitcoin users are doing well and they made it legalized for their land.  My country is planning to legalize Bitcoin and impose tax on users, which many bitcoiners are very happy because they want to use Bitcoin to purchase goods like the way they are using fiat money to purchase goods in the country.

if you look at the UK/US.EU countries

bitcoin tx fee's are still JUST reasonable
(im talking about wanting a confirm in 10 mins, not wait for weekends or night times delay tactics to snipe lower fees)

but for developing countries its more then a few hours labour of minimum wage. which is not suitable

utility growth:(low lack of should i say)
its been limited to ~1500 tx a block (1500x144)=216,000 uses a day

so comparing that to the proposition of 2009-2014 of
atleast 7txps(upto 4000tx a block possible) and sub penny fee's bitcoin has bitcoin has lost its reach from the majority of unbanked developing countries it was proposed as capable of and would grow to help support

i know some will start to advertise their subnetworks and altnets people should offramp to to solve this. but bitcoin can and should solve these things that have turned it into a reserve asset for the elite groups
(im from the UK, but i can see if from the prospective of other countries)

bitcoin developers(covers) have since 2015 become co-opted/corrupted into being corporate sponsored devs only adding features and having a road map that appeases a corporate strategy and not a open world community need.

i still use it, but its not the same proposition as wht was offered in the early days

Since the government laid out regulations for crypto, this also meant our crypto is going to be taxed. It's fair.

The government needs funds to govern society. Believe it or not, it's necessary since we live as a society and we all need the government as well. What is not worth it is if our taxes go somewhere outside the country so spend on war we as citizens don't benefit.

You may be new to this market crash outcry but trust me, this isn’t the first time it has crashed and during that process, many people feel the same thing and handle the anxiety by holding( that is if you buy bitcoin and not Shit coins) and with time, new bull run appears with different speculations, there is more to come I believe.


The government is known as tax person, they don’t see where people earn from investment and take their eyes from it and since bitcoin is a p2p and also store of value, they would definitely want to eat from those profits they have earned. Irrespective of whatever the government has installed on bitcoin, satoshi legacy must be fulfilled.

That means you're yet not used to having the understanding of how bitcoin works and how to remain decentralized on it, as long as you have your bitcoin on a decentralized wallet there's no how government can regulate you to pay them tax elae the finished work of Satoshi over decentralization and freedom in finances will not be completed with you, p2p cannot be monitored by centralized authorities but centralized exchanges can be monitored and regulated.

Bitcoins remain anonymous, taxes are taken from exchanges, wallets, banks, visas and so on, taxes do not apply to Bitcoins, you can still transact and buy Bitcoins anonymously.

Taxes apply to exchanges when Bitcoin is turned into fiat money, taxes apply to fiat transactions, not to Bitcoin, exchanges only deduct Bitcoin transaction fees, governments can't cut taxes on Bitcoin, they can do it on fiat.

Satoshi and Bitcoin do not fail when it comes to being anonymous.
Understand Anonymous, are you currently being tracked by the tax authorities for your identity when buying and selling Bitcoin, of course not, you can be tracked and your identity traced when sending fiat, not with your Bitcoin account or identity.

There are dedicated threads for beginners to understand bitcoin, trading exchanges and other fundamentals in the crypto space, you can view each one to understand everything. The bitcointalk room is the place to understand and learn all the information you need, because in this room many relevant things are discussed according to the facts that happened and I'm sure you will definitely understand, if you are serious about studying the discussion threads of this issue in the bitcointalk room.

What you need to understand is that Satoshi Nakamoto never failed to create bitcoin as a perfect digital currency, there is no direct relationship between taxes and the correlation of the creation of bitcoins that are run using a P2P system.
There are some countries that adopt a low tax system or a tax free country like El Salvador, anonymous is not only with regards to taxes, because many other technical things are related to it and each country adopts a different system in setting taxes on bitcoin travel

There's no guarantee that everyone's dream will be fulfilled. Every innovation has to go through the test of time and bitcoin is no exception here. Currently bitcoin has reached to such a level where only a handful of innovation can reach. Isn't that enough?

There was a coin which aimed to fulfil the vision of Satoshi, but failed miserably! It's good to stay within the limit of law. Revolutionary idea is great but it may not yield great results if you try to execute.