Solid earnings for week ending 9/5 posted. IPO seems to be driving a lot of traffic!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmSWZWkGJ1V3dFpxZHVTN0x6ZldUeHRteWdBd1pMNXc#gid=12
Topic: [HAVELOCK] CasinoBitco.in (CBTC) IPO Official Thread - page 10. (Read 25116 times)
I meant the personal open orders page, https://www.havelockinvestments.com/orders.php
Ok thanks, we'll add this along with the IPO page to use 8 decimals.
Just a quick couple of questions from my end:
How long has this site been operational?
I noticed the detailed statements go from July-August, but other Google docs files note starting back in May or so.
What is the purpose of valuing the company at BTC5,400? Was this value intentional?
Most of the time, people usually randomly generate how many shares their company will have (i.e. 1,000,000 units, 5,000,000, etc) and then throw in a per unit initial value they thought was good enough (i.e. BTC0.001, 0.5, 0.00001, etc). Then, as if magic, they're suddenly valuing their ideas at thousands of BTC.
How will any raised funds be spent? Say hundreds of random people jump on board and give you the $60,000 in BTC you're looking for. Then what?
These are just a few 'feeler' questions, and I've got a few more depending on how the above are answered. Overall, I like casino investments...when built properly (and secured properly as well) the house always wins, and that's good for investors
How long has this site been operational?
I noticed the detailed statements go from July-August, but other Google docs files note starting back in May or so.
What is the purpose of valuing the company at BTC5,400? Was this value intentional?
Most of the time, people usually randomly generate how many shares their company will have (i.e. 1,000,000 units, 5,000,000, etc) and then throw in a per unit initial value they thought was good enough (i.e. BTC0.001, 0.5, 0.00001, etc). Then, as if magic, they're suddenly valuing their ideas at thousands of BTC.
How will any raised funds be spent? Say hundreds of random people jump on board and give you the $60,000 in BTC you're looking for. Then what?
These are just a few 'feeler' questions, and I've got a few more depending on how the above are answered. Overall, I like casino investments...when built properly (and secured properly as well) the house always wins, and that's good for investors
Hey Korbman! Thanks for your interest.
Yes, in conjunction with Havelock, we valued ourselves intentionally - We used the same price formula used for pre-IPO investors for our IPO valuation, which we've had a ton of interest interest for. Factors taken into account include our btc/cash on hand, intellectual property, weekly earnings growth, expected earnings considering future development, overall bitcoin gaming market share, etc. We did a lot of market research to make sure there was plenty of room for us to grow. What's nice - after IPO, the market can take over valuation for us.
Based on Alexa traffic, we're one of the fastest growing for both bitcoin sportsbook/ casino over the past month or so, and we hope this move will boost growth further. We really have two ways to grow - within the current bitcoin gaming space, of which we have roughly ~5%, and with the growth of the bitcoin gaming space as a whole - which appears to be roughly doubling every year, and is still well under 0.1% of the gaming market as a whole.
Funds are primarily being raised to increase our risk threshold, and therefore max bets limits.
It's also like rounded like that in the open orders page, very confusing.
Hi, we show 8 decimal places in the open orders page for all the existing funds (ex: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/order.php?symbol=HIM). CBTC doesn't have an order page active yet. Did you have a link to the page in questions and we can take a look?
Just a quick couple of questions from my end:
How long has this site been operational?
I noticed the detailed statements go from July-August, but other Google docs files note starting back in May or so.
What is the purpose of valuing the company at BTC5,400? Was this value intentional?
Most of the time, people usually randomly generate how many shares their company will have (i.e. 1,000,000 units, 5,000,000, etc) and then throw in a per unit initial value they thought was good enough (i.e. BTC0.001, 0.5, 0.00001, etc). Then, as if magic, they're suddenly valuing their ideas at thousands of BTC.
How will any raised funds be spent? Say hundreds of random people jump on board and give you the $60,000 in BTC you're looking for. Then what?
These are just a few 'feeler' questions, and I've got a few more depending on how the above are answered. Overall, I like casino investments...when built properly (and secured properly as well) the house always wins, and that's good for investors
How long has this site been operational?
I noticed the detailed statements go from July-August, but other Google docs files note starting back in May or so.
What is the purpose of valuing the company at BTC5,400? Was this value intentional?
Most of the time, people usually randomly generate how many shares their company will have (i.e. 1,000,000 units, 5,000,000, etc) and then throw in a per unit initial value they thought was good enough (i.e. BTC0.001, 0.5, 0.00001, etc). Then, as if magic, they're suddenly valuing their ideas at thousands of BTC.
How will any raised funds be spent? Say hundreds of random people jump on board and give you the $60,000 in BTC you're looking for. Then what?
These are just a few 'feeler' questions, and I've got a few more depending on how the above are answered. Overall, I like casino investments...when built properly (and secured properly as well) the house always wins, and that's good for investors
Why is it listed in the spec as being priced at 0.00018 but on offer on 0.0002 on havelock ?
It only appears as 0.0002 because of a how our system currently displays unit prices (4 decimal places). So 0.00018 is rounded up to 0.0002 for displaying purposes. The price is really 0.00018 in our system. FYI The order book displays down to 8 decimal places. We'll look at expanding the IPO display to 8 decimal places to avoid confusion in the future. Thanks for pointing it out.
Why is it listed in the spec as being priced at 0.00018 but on offer on 0.0002 on havelock ?
We reached out to Havelock yesterday to get this corrected, it should be 0.00018.
Why is it listed in the spec as being priced at 0.00018 but on offer on 0.0002 on havelock ?
Finally its on. Cheers!
Absolutely! We're very excited as well - can't stress how great it's been working with the team over at Havelock, A+.
Finally its on. Cheers!
that will be an interesting IPO Phase!!
Thanks for the answers, CBC! That covers everything I can think of right now, and everything looks good. Definitely going to put some thought into jumping in on this, .
.You got it, Ranlo!
No saying how fast - but if it's anything like DealCo.in this week - shares could go quick! I'll have my coins ready (myself and others involved will be adding to our equity on IPO - will be nice to have "liquid" shares)
Thanks for the answers, CBC! That covers everything I can think of right now, and everything looks good. Definitely going to put some thought into jumping in on this, .
. Ranlo:
P&L - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmSWZWkGJ1V3dDl0STVudkZBUm1fRTlXMUFzZ3dkUXc&usp=sharing
Still a work in progress so suggestions welcome.
P&L - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmSWZWkGJ1V3dDl0STVudkZBUm1fRTlXMUFzZ3dkUXc&usp=sharing
Still a work in progress so suggestions welcome.
At what point are you going to start paying yourselves or will you just be maintaining owners equity?
Uv,
For the foreseable future, we don't plan on taking any salary/compensation, just working for the equity we own!
No management fee - and, that figure is after all expenses - that roughly 25% would be added to the general reserves or "cash" as retained earnings, and would belong shared to all shareholders.
Based on what I can tell, then, you have:
41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC
That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?
So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.
If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...
@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.
41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC
That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?
So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.
If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...
@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.
Ranlo - I think we're on the same page! Lot's of factors to consider.
Simply put, our goal is to be far and away #1 in non-dice bitcoin gaming - and we appear to be on the growth trajectory to reach that. By my estimates, we have roughly close to a 5% chunk of that market now, and growing.
Our shareholder's support & input will be a huge part of us getting there.
Yeah, I definitely get where you're coming from. The downside is that the market can have massive swings up or down at any point. It's more of a long-term investment than anything. On the other hand, people always gamble, and ironically as the economy gets worse people gamble more and more.
So are the shares based on their part of the total profit each month, or is there part being taken out of that each month? Best breakdown would be like this if possible:
Let's say there is one share someone owns and their fragment of the profit was 1 BTC. Would their dividend be the entire BTC, or how would it break down?
Ranlo - I agree - this is one reason we intend to focus on competitive advantages and serve our own "niche", whenever possible. We're targeting roughly 75% dividend / 25% reinvestment to start - this will be well defined with each dividend for share holders.
Is there any "management fee?" And you will be proactively marketing with part of the 25%, correct?
Based on what I can tell, then, you have:
41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC
That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?
So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.
If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...
@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.
41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC
That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?
So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.
If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...
@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.
Ranlo - I think we're on the same page! Lot's of factors to consider.
Simply put, our goal is to be far and away #1 in non-dice bitcoin gaming - and we appear to be on the growth trajectory to reach that. By my estimates, we have roughly close to a 5% chunk of that market now, and growing.
Our shareholder's support & input will be a huge part of us getting there.
Yeah, I definitely get where you're coming from. The downside is that the market can have massive swings up or down at any point. It's more of a long-term investment than anything. On the other hand, people always gamble, and ironically as the economy gets worse people gamble more and more.
So are the shares based on their part of the total profit each month, or is there part being taken out of that each month? Best breakdown would be like this if possible:
Let's say there is one share someone owns and their fragment of the profit was 1 BTC. Would their dividend be the entire BTC, or how would it break down?
Ranlo - I agree - this is one reason we intend to focus on competitive advantages and serve our own "niche", whenever possible. We're targeting roughly 75% dividend / 25% reinvestment to start - this will be well defined with each dividend for share holders.
Great question, and totally expected. We have retained legal counsil on this exact question early on in the process.
The absolute worst-case scenario (as mentioned in the Prospectus) is that we could be served by the US DOJ with a cease and deist notification. We have 2 legal recourses if that scenario were to occur:
1) Disable traffic for US Customers
2) Fight the order
While we view this scenario as a very unlikely scenario giving the US Government stance on Bitcoin, option #2 is absolutely costly, but not out of question if the timing is right. If we went with Option 1 - it would cut off roughly 69% of our current traffic to the site as of today (we are however, planning on large-scale marketing campaigns for non-US customers after this IPO).
All that said, NO - the US government (nor police) could not confiscate our Bitcoins as we are not under US jurisdiction.
I hope that helps clarify the risk, as well as our stance.
All servers run offshore in Ireland and Hong Kong.
Is anyone familiar with US law related to gambling/betting? I thought that the location of the servers is irrelevant if you live in USA (you do) and/or serving US customers.
What is the worst case scenario here - could US police (or regulator or whoever) confiscate the BTC? What is your plan for such legal complications?
The absolute worst-case scenario (as mentioned in the Prospectus) is that we could be served by the US DOJ with a cease and deist notification. We have 2 legal recourses if that scenario were to occur:
1) Disable traffic for US Customers
2) Fight the order
While we view this scenario as a very unlikely scenario giving the US Government stance on Bitcoin, option #2 is absolutely costly, but not out of question if the timing is right. If we went with Option 1 - it would cut off roughly 69% of our current traffic to the site as of today (we are however, planning on large-scale marketing campaigns for non-US customers after this IPO).
All that said, NO - the US government (nor police) could not confiscate our Bitcoins as we are not under US jurisdiction.
I hope that helps clarify the risk, as well as our stance.
Are you, or are you planning to be a registered company? In which jurisdiction?
Where do you live? Is it legal to operate gambling site in your country?
The company is registered as a legal entity in Panama. Where do you live? Is it legal to operate gambling site in your country?
All servers run offshore in Ireland and Hong Kong.
Is anyone familiar with US law related to gambling/betting? I thought that the location of the servers is irrelevant if you live in USA (you do) and/or serving US customers.
What is the worst case scenario here - could US police (or regulator or whoever) confiscate the BTC? What is your plan for such legal complications?
Are you, or are you planning to be a registered company? In which jurisdiction?
Where do you live? Is it legal to operate gambling site in your country?
The company is registered as a legal entity in Panama. Where do you live? Is it legal to operate gambling site in your country?
All servers run offshore in Ireland and Hong Kong.
Is anyone familiar with US law related to gambling/betting? I thought that the location of the servers is irrelevant if you live in USA (you do) and/or serving US customers.
What is the worst case scenario here - could US police (or regulator or whoever) confiscate the BTC? What is your plan for such legal complications?
I played a lot of online poker when it was still legal in the U.S. and even though the servers were in Ireland or some such place for Full Tilt Poker, they still got the government killswitch for U.S.-based participants. I think this will be a genuine concern in the future
Based on what I can tell, then, you have:
41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC
That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?
So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.
If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...
@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.
41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC
That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?
So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.
If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...
@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.
Ranlo - I think we're on the same page! Lot's of factors to consider.
Simply put, our goal is to be far and away #1 in non-dice bitcoin gaming - and we appear to be on the growth trajectory to reach that. By my estimates, we have roughly close to a 5% chunk of that market now, and growing.
Our shareholder's support & input will be a huge part of us getting there.
Yeah, I definitely get where you're coming from. The downside is that the market can have massive swings up or down at any point. It's more of a long-term investment than anything. On the other hand, people always gamble, and ironically as the economy gets worse people gamble more and more.
So are the shares based on their part of the total profit each month, or is there part being taken out of that each month? Best breakdown would be like this if possible:
Let's say there is one share someone owns and their fragment of the profit was 1 BTC. Would their dividend be the entire BTC, or how would it break down?
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