[HAVELOCK] CasinoBitco.in (CBTC) IPO Official Thread - page 11.

casinobitcoin

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Quote from: TheSwede75 on September 05, 2013, 04:27:23 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: TheSwede75 on September 05, 2013, 04:22:25 PM

I have to say that even though you prob consider this sort of a 'ironic post' I personally think that E-game betting is something that is 100% a great idea. Maybe Starcraft and League of Legends.

Not ironic at all - except I'm not Korean. It's a whole new underexplored area. And gamers have to spend the bitcoins they mined with their GPUs Wink

I agree. HUGE SC2 and Broodwar fan here.

As an ex-SC player, I'm in. What other e-sports are big?

ranlo

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Quote from: TheSwede75 on September 05, 2013, 04:23:45 PM

Quote from: ranlo on September 05, 2013, 04:21:55 PM

Based on what I can tell, then, you have:

41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC

That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?

So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.

If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...

@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.

Valuing seed finance based on current profits is almost useless in my opinion. If you want 'crazy valuation' take a look at the Justdice.com IPO Shocked

Honestly, the vast majority of IPO's in the crypto scene are directly marketed towards people who don't know any better and assume everything is going to make a profit. I won't go into too many details but I know for a fact a few have overpriced knowing they were overpricing, solely because they knew people were stupid enough to buy into it anyways. One has even agreed with me that most people here have no business investing, but as long as they are you can get rich off them, XD.

TheSwede75

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: TheSwede75 on September 05, 2013, 04:22:25 PM

I have to say that even though you prob consider this sort of a 'ironic post' I personally think that E-game betting is something that is 100% a great idea. Maybe Starcraft and League of Legends.

Not ironic at all - except I'm not Korean. It's a whole new underexplored area. And gamers have to spend the bitcoins they mined with their GPUs Wink

I agree. HUGE SC2 and Broodwar fan here.

casinobitcoin

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Quote from: ranlo on September 05, 2013, 04:21:55 PM

Based on what I can tell, then, you have:

41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC

That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?

So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.

If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...

@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.

Ranlo - I think we're on the same page! Lot's of factors to consider.

Simply put, our goal is to be far and away #1 in non-dice bitcoin gaming - and we appear to be on the growth trajectory to reach that. By my estimates, we have roughly close to a 5% chunk of that market now, and growing.

Our shareholder's support & input will be a huge part of us getting there.

TheSwede75

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Quote from: ranlo on September 05, 2013, 04:21:55 PM

Based on what I can tell, then, you have:

41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC

That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?

So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.

If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...

@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.

Valuing seed finance based on current profits is almost useless in my opinion. If you want 'crazy valuation' take a look at the Justdice.com IPO Shocked

TheSwede75

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Quote from: ?? on ??

And no StarCraft.
- a Korean

I have to say that even though you prob consider this sort of a 'ironic post' I personally think that E-game betting is something that is 100% a great idea. Maybe Starcraft and League of Legends.

ranlo

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Based on what I can tell, then, you have:

41.15 BTC
28.59 BTC

That's your profit over 2 months (after every expense is paid)?

So let's round that up to 35 BTC a month.

If this is correct, that lands ~10 year ROI (based on profit at current levels), which is a little high but based on what I've seen I think this can be shortened considerably over time. Your valuation *does* go hand-in-hand with your revenue, so that's perfect. Just have to decide how much risk is too much here...

@xchrisxsays - seriously? The company I put down was going for over 800k in valuation on a company that 1) hadn't even been created yet and 2) had absolutely no income. How can someone possibly value an idea at nearly a million dollars? If you really believe in that crap, I've got tons of ideas I can sell you and I'll let them go for a fraction of that (250k each). Making stupid investments is how you lose all your money.

casinobitcoin

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Ranlo:

P&L - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmSWZWkGJ1V3dDl0STVudkZBUm1fRTlXMUFzZ3dkUXc&usp=sharing

Still a work in progress so suggestions welcome.

casinobitcoin

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No worries, we're more than happy to explain our IPO process and be transparent! If anyone prefers to PM me to discuss, that's welcome too.

On NHL / Starcraft - It's all coming! We have the feeds etc. ready to cache - just a bit of work for each "league" to add it in.

Maybe I'll start a poll so we know what order to prioritize Wink

*edit* - I've just been corrected - We have NHL - just no games!

Progressive

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Quote from: casinobitco on September 05, 2013, 03:40:51 PM

Quote from: Progressive on September 05, 2013, 03:35:16 PM

Are you, or are you planning to be a registered company? In which jurisdiction?
Where do you live? Is it legal to operate gambling site in your country?

The company is registered as a legal entity in Panama.
All servers run offshore in Ireland and Hong Kong.

Is anyone familiar with US law related to gambling/betting? I thought that the location of the servers is irrelevant if you live in USA (you do) and/or serving US customers.
What is the worst case scenario here - could US police (or regulator or whoever) confiscate the BTC? What is your plan for such legal complications?

ranlo

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Quote from: casinobitcoin on September 05, 2013, 03:51:42 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ranlo on September 05, 2013, 03:43:22 PM

So how does $10k (let's estimate each BTC as being $100 and just say it's 100 BTC) + 625 BTC somehow end up being worth 4860 BTC? Based on my mathematics that's only 725 BTC (and that is a LOW estimate), far from being even close to your valuation.

Where's the other 4155 BTC coming from?

Current assets, go into but are not the only thing guiding the valuation, in brick and mortar 2-5 year profits are utilized to value the company in a sell.

uvwvj, Exactly, I think that's the payback period "pitched" for many franchises out there.

Then where are the profit/loss statements? I saw nothing to tell that. The closest thing I could find was deposits/withdrawals but that doesn't mean anything.

thebitcoiners

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Looks pretty cool but no NHL?
- a Canadian

xchrisxsays

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Quote from: casinobitcoin on September 05, 2013, 03:51:42 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ranlo on September 05, 2013, 03:43:22 PM

So how does $10k (let's estimate each BTC as being $100 and just say it's 100 BTC) + 625 BTC somehow end up being worth 4860 BTC? Based on my mathematics that's only 725 BTC (and that is a LOW estimate), far from being even close to your valuation.

Where's the other 4155 BTC coming from?

Current assets, go into but are not the only thing guiding the valuation, in brick and mortar 2-5 year profits are utilized to value the company in a sell.

uvwvj, Exactly, I think that's the payback period "pitched" for many franchises out there.

Just as a warning, I think this same guy (ranlo) asked the same question of Crypto Currency and had a very difficult time understanding that more than just book value goes into the calculation of a valuation. So he may come back in here asking more questions about it.

casinobitcoin

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ranlo on September 05, 2013, 03:43:22 PM

So how does $10k (let's estimate each BTC as being $100 and just say it's 100 BTC) + 625 BTC somehow end up being worth 4860 BTC? Based on my mathematics that's only 725 BTC (and that is a LOW estimate), far from being even close to your valuation.

Where's the other 4155 BTC coming from?

Current assets, go into but are not the only thing guiding the valuation, in brick and mortar 2-5 year profits are utilized to value the company in a sell.

uvwvj, Exactly, I think that's the payback period "pitched" for many franchises out there.

casinobitcoin

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Quote from: ranlo on September 05, 2013, 03:43:22 PM

Quote from: casinobitcoin on September 05, 2013, 03:32:52 PM

Quote from: ranlo on September 05, 2013, 03:22:48 PM

I read through the prospectus but there's a couple things not clear:

1) How much did your Pre-IPO investors pay per share?
2) What are you bringing to the table that is worth 70% of the shares total? What is the investment amount so far, etc.?

Great question - Let me know if I can elaborate further:

1 & 2 - This can be approximated by viewing our current assets ($9,840.00 & 677.3100 btc minus player balance ~52 btc) divided by 15% of shares sold pre-IPO, and what founders contributed as well, which is significant. The IPO price is based on the same model we've used for all pre-IPO investors, increasing over time in part based on growing weekly earnings. As we've had significant private offers for funding, our Havelock IPO is not so much about money, but outreach to smaller investors and increasing our profile.

In addition to a significant amount of assets already (book value), we are bringing years of development, management, marketing etc. experience to the table, resulting in continued growth & success of CasinoBitco.in. As almost all development & effort is handled internally without a salary, we're putting in a lot of hard work in, and will continue to do so.

So how does $10k (let's estimate each BTC as being $100 and just say it's 100 BTC) + 625 BTC somehow end up being worth 4860 BTC? Based on my mathematics that's only 725 BTC (and that is a LOW estimate), far from being even close to your valuation.

Where's the other 4155 BTC coming from?

Sure - and great question -

The amount you calculated is "book value". So, our IPO can be calculated at very roughly:

725 + 540 raised in IPO (if successful) divided by 5400 valuation = a 4.27 x Price/Book value. Assets, unless distressed, are typically priced well over book value based on future growth/return prospects (example, Tableau Software, a recent NYSE IPO, is showing a 21.09 ratio on Yahoo Finance)

ranlo

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Quote from: casinobitcoin on September 05, 2013, 03:32:52 PM

Quote from: ranlo on September 05, 2013, 03:22:48 PM

I read through the prospectus but there's a couple things not clear:

1) How much did your Pre-IPO investors pay per share?
2) What are you bringing to the table that is worth 70% of the shares total? What is the investment amount so far, etc.?

Great question - Let me know if I can elaborate further:

1 & 2 - This can be approximated by viewing our current assets ($9,840.00 & 677.3100 btc minus player balance ~52 btc) divided by 15% of shares sold pre-IPO, and what founders contributed as well, which is significant. The IPO price is based on the same model we've used for all pre-IPO investors, increasing over time in part based on growing weekly earnings. As we've had significant private offers for funding, our Havelock IPO is not so much about money, but outreach to smaller investors and increasing our profile.

In addition to a significant amount of assets already (book value), we are bringing years of development, management, marketing etc. experience to the table, resulting in continued growth & success of CasinoBitco.in. As almost all development & effort is handled internally without a salary, we're putting in a lot of hard work in, and will continue to do so.

So how does $10k (let's estimate each BTC as being $100 and just say it's 100 BTC) + 625 BTC somehow end up being worth 4860 BTC? Based on my mathematics that's only 725 BTC (and that is a LOW estimate), far from being even close to your valuation.

Where's the other 4155 BTC coming from?

casinobitco

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Quote from: Progressive on September 05, 2013, 03:35:16 PM

Are you, or are you planning to be a registered company? In which jurisdiction?
Where do you live? Is it legal to operate gambling site in your country?

The company is registered as a legal entity in Panama.

All servers run offshore in Ireland and Hong Kong.

Progressive

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Activity: 181

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Are you, or are you planning to be a registered company? In which jurisdiction?
Where do you live? Is it legal to operate gambling site in your country?

iANDROID

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Swiss Money all around me!

Watching!

casinobitcoin

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Quote from: ranlo on September 05, 2013, 03:22:48 PM

I read through the prospectus but there's a couple things not clear:

1) How much did your Pre-IPO investors pay per share?
2) What are you bringing to the table that is worth 70% of the shares total? What is the investment amount so far, etc.?

Great question - Let me know if I can elaborate further:

1 & 2 - This can be approximated by viewing our current assets ($9,840.00 & 677.3100 btc minus player balance ~52 btc) divided by 15% of shares sold pre-IPO, and what founders contributed as well, which is significant. The IPO price is based on the same model we've used for all pre-IPO investors, increasing over time in part based on growing weekly earnings. As we've had significant private offers for funding, our Havelock IPO is not so much about money, but outreach to smaller investors and increasing our profile.

In addition to a significant amount of assets already (book value), we are bringing years of development, management, marketing etc. experience to the table, resulting in continued growth & success of CasinoBitco.in. As almost all development & effort is handled internally without a salary, we're putting in a lot of hard work in, and will continue to do so.

Topic: [HAVELOCK] CasinoBitco.in (CBTC) IPO Official Thread - page 11. (Read 25056 times)