Topic: [HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit) - page 60. (Read 565829 times)

Okay, puppet thankyou for giving me very reasonable answers, although the insults really aren’t necessary.

I ran the numbers, assuming 12% increase per week, if divs stopped this week then the loan would be paid back in 3 weeks and five weeks after that we would have 400BTC to buy new gear with right?  I grant you it would be pretty hard to double PETA’s hash rate in that time to keep up with the network…with only 400BTC, unless CryptX can get their hands on cheap rigs from somewhere, finance another loan, or the next price bubble hits us. 

So, a few questions for you, is the cost/GH at cex.io or anywhere else cheaper than here at PETA?  Because from what you have said, mining/hosted mining/cloud mining/ being a part of the bitcoin network are not financially viable unless you are producing chips?  And it’s not PETA you have an issue with, but ALL mining. Are you saying that only the manufactures of chips are now able to afford to keep up with the bitcoin network?

If so, is it possible to buy shares in said manufactures? 

So if you have no shares in peta, and think all mining is doomed to fail, are you very busy pointing this out to all of the other bitcointalk mining threads? Why does PETA warrant your time?

Because in Belgium the sun shines 24h a day...

I'm going to start slowly dumping my few shares.  Lack of communication on part of CryptX, no custom-board(s), debt that will pretty much take forever to pay off at this rate.  No new hash to be coming online for sometime.  Real bummer.  I'm sure cryptx could care less so long as the hosting/admin fee's are coming in (way over priced btw if really 100% solar).  Anyway, hope things turn around for this asset and will hold what I can but not encouraged atm.

All of the above, plus the ASIC lag--miners have pre-ordered the hardware looooong before starting to mine.  When the hardware arrives, the only remaining option is to immediately toss it into the trash (total loss), or mine with it until (worth(coins mined)) becomes < (cost(electricity to mine those coins)).
Don't know why all the above isn't obvious.

inb4: "lol I sellz teh minerz!!1!"--not when everyone else is trying to do the same thing.  Greater fools have dried up substantially.  Still a few left, judging by this thread, but nowhere near enough to absorb this fail.

Got that right too.

There is nothing to fix. The hardware has been bought, it generates a mining income, but that will drop faster than snow melts in the desert and never come close to earning its cost. The only way to "fix" that is by preventing everyone else from buying mining hardware. How do you plan on doing that?


Yeah, and in two weeks it will be 30% less, and it will keep falling very very fast, so fast that in a few months it will earn less than they cost in hosting.. Moreover, 313 BTC isnt a whole lot of money compared to how much was invested.


You mean withhold dividends and use that to dig an even bigger hole? Keep doing that, and soon enough there will be nothing left. Besides, do tha math, and see how little hashrate your dividend could possibly buy.


Because large operations have an electricity cost that is at least 5x lower than Cryptx. Because KnC, Cointerra, cex.io and several others dont buy their hardware at market rates, but produce them for a cost that is by my guess, around 1/10th of the market price, and get even that subsidized by retail customers paying far too high rates,  like Cryptx . And because many are as clueless as you and will buy miners no matter what.

If you want to know what I think is the least worst outcome at this point: sell all the hardware asap, some people still dont get it and will pay considerably more for it than it will ever mine. Pay out the revenue from the sales as dividend and call it a day. That is what would benefit shareholders the most, but of course, is of no benefit to the issuer, who will no longer pocket his 70+ BTC per week hosting fee. And  since the issuer holds no shares whatsoever himself, I wouldnt hold my breath. Im sure he would love to withhold dividends and dig a deeper hole though. That would increase his hosting fee, he may well pocket some kickbacks on the purchase of new hardware, and lose nothing in the process. win-win for him, lose-lose for you.

@theMiracle, just want to check, that was mockery right? (Hope your grandma can cope sans chair)

 I’m not even sure if any of those posts were in response to my first, or even that anyone read it,  but I’m going to carry on regardless.

I get that PETA isn’t looking too bright right now, especially with the ever increasing hash rate. But rather than kicking cryptX, who seems to have a pretty good track record so far and has gone out of their way to keep the mine afloat, why not have a discussion on what to do about the situation rather than sounding the dive alarm and posting titanic gif’s ? (funny as it is)

Rather than start a selling panic where we all lose out by selling below IPO, why not find a way to fix the mine so we all win?

PETA has  ~1.2 petahash right? The network is now ~130 petahash  so we are at about 0.9% or 313BTC or 185,100 USD per WEEK! Now maybe I’m just dirt poor, but that sounds like a lot of mulla to me. I’m no mining expert (clearly), but that HAS to be more than enough to buy new mining gear and dig ourselves out of this hole right? 
If it’s not possible (and please tell me if it’s not) then why is ANYONE still mining? We have to keep up with the network, probably at the cost of divs, else we’re all down and out.

Does this make sense to anyone here? Am I nuts, why would stopping divs to pay back the mine not be a good idea?  Is there anyone posting here who is NOT trying troll the price down lower?

Scryptx is doing fine. At least for few months more and only if cryptx doesn't screw things up with additional ipo's and bad communication. (yes, no communication at all seems better than bad one)

Nobody gives a fuck where the dividends are trending once it falls below IPO price.  You're ignoring both the fundamentals and the behavior of markets - Wharton, I assume?

Edit: I misread. But this is even funnier. How do you expect dividends to rise when difficulty is exploding and hashrate is fixed for the next ~3 months?

That being said, the Scrypt offering seemed moderately better thought-out, down only 25% from its most recent IPO price.

Mmm, 2 1/2 shares of PETA for ~$81 or R-box for $60 (plus ~$3/month in electric)...

Cryptx bought the current equipment right before a new wave of chips came out - did nobody left here see this coming?  

Let's look at ASICminer as an example of a successful public offering whose business plan included hosted mining.  Success here is defined by a full return on IPO price via dividends (as opposed to price appreciation, which later contributed to further gains by investors).

AM's phenomenal solo-mining run was something we might see only a few times in the future (if at all), and yet they hedged their risk by also selling equipment as a second line of business.  The sheer advantage they held over the rest of the mining space was unparalleled at the time.  Future performance TBD.  AM, like all crypto securities, was a risky bet, but friedcat came through on a grand scale last year. 

In comparison, nobody who buys this fund right now (let alone at that downright bizarre second..ahem, third IPO price) will see a return on their investment through dividends.  If we assume that reinvestment could keep dividends constant at around 0.0017, even after one year, the fund will only yield 0.088.  

BUT WAIT - THE FUND CARRIES HEAVY SHORT TERM DEBT.  That's the real reason the bid line is paper-thin with only one major support at 0.0211.  Nobody in their right mind wants to hold an asset with that risk profile in their portfolio.  It's not called "reinvestment" when your reinvestment funds are actually just paying off the capital you already have - those are interest payments - any increase in hashrate the fund can afford will be entirely muted by the new chips flooding the network this month.

That's called math.  It's not FUD, it's math.  Incidentally - remember how "awesome" your GPU seemed to hash at 15 Mh/s?  With each new iteration in the length scale of chip architectures, the hashing standard shifts by an order of magnitude.

And not to mention the piss-poor downright shady communication from management during said 2nd (ahem, 3rd) IPO - for me, that alone warranted a fire sale at any loss just to get whatever I could back out.

Don't blame Puppet or anyone else for dragging down the share price.  Its the fact that Cryptx came in with a prospectus containing the downright shittiest set of difficulty projections and market research that, coupled with taglines such as "We'll have 2% of the network hashrate!", lured investors onto a sinking ship.

@runam0k:  Ino, rite?  I risk life and limb setting foot onto this ship, looking only for safe and speedy evacuation of its unfortunate passengers, and what am I greeted with?  Outstretched hands and babbling thanks?

No.

Lunatics.  Scurrying around the careening deck, numb frozen hands grasping at chairs to arrange into magical constellations, patterns they hope will re-sink these mammoth monstrosities beneath the icy waters.



Re-invest moar, they say.  Less dividends, they beg.
Once human, now broken by grief.  Descending into madness before sinking beneath the waves.

Well, here we are, Gentlemen.  Be British, or every man for himself.

Titanic.gif, Gentlemen.  Titanic.gif.

Not worth the risk now these days and to be honest SHA mining I would say is almost over unless rigs are min of 5TH and cost less than $900 each and have very low power use. Till them days happn buying any sha equipment is to risky now unless a well know company or none pre order BS the shairs here do look attractive but still too risky and a lot of ones  I have looked at over the last 3 months have done nothing but tank down in price.

This is just getting sad.  Share price doesn't seem to be doing anything but tanking. 

Damn you puppet for coming in here with your math and logic and whatnot!

Hate to admit it but seems like his predictions are holding some water at this point. :/

With DTM launching and AM shares reaching new lows, you really should be doing a lot better for the sheer amount of time and numbers of accounts you're dedicating to this.

+1!

Just pawned grandma's wheelchair and wired the profit to cryptex.  Grammy's a tough old bird and PETA could put the money to better use.

Gentlemen, we're the new moneyed elite!  Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more!

Hi, small time holder with PETA, just registered to give my thoughts.

As much as puppet is trolling the point, his numbers (sadly) do add up, the loan is being re-paid too slowly. It is clearly having an effect on share price and probably putting off new investors who have shown an interest from the soon to come p2pool switch (which is a great idea and I fully support).

I'm in this for the long run and want to maintain a (very) small part of the bitcoin network through PETA, as I think most of the unit holders here also are.

As I see it, the hash rate is going up at a comical rate and has no sign of easing up. Small time/home miners are simply not able to compete against the likes of bitfury/CEX.IO's massive hubs. The only reasonable hope people like me have are in companies like PETA who pool our resources; if they cannot run a profitable mining rig then none of us can.

Looking into the next ~6 weeks I assume that once the loan is or nearly is paid off cryptx will give another loan to the shareholders and we will ride the ups and downs in divs as the network hash rate keeps rising ect.ect. However, it is clearly going to cost >50% of the revenue to keep the mine anywhere near 1% of the network in the long term.

I'm sure cryptX and the >5% unit holders have a plan, as clearly they are not going to let their large investment fall so easily, but unless cryptX has an ace up their sleeve may I suggest one of the following:

- stopping divs for 4 weeks to pay off the loan.

- upping the re-investment to 80/90% (I was happy with 0.0007 per share per week a few months ago, weren't you?) allowing the mine to continue loooong into the future (with profit each week)

- making some sort of sliding scale re-investment / divs percentage where the amount of BTC required to keep up with difficulty (and peta at 1% of the network) comes out of weekly profit first and anything left over is given out as divs.


In any circumstance, I want PETA to keep going as long as possible and for my little investment to keep giving a small amount over years rather than crash and burn in a few months.  Thoughts?

No rational actor would go that long without reinvestment anyway. There is a reinvestment fund for a reason! At the point in time in which the fund ostensibly would max out, we can expect reinvestment to occur. CryptX wouldn't just let his reinvestment wallet collapse.

Lol. Reality check dude. You're forecast predicts a rapid and dramatic div drop - something which has NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

In fact, divs have consistently risen.

Try modelling reality next time, not just whack arbitrary numbers.