I promised to never come back on this forum
So, in short, you lied. I'm not surprised. 
Topic: "HCP's ongoing experiment of the BotHIVE.io Trading Platform"™ (Read 2558 times)
Is important to point out that we utilise AI and genetic algorithms that simulate the natural selection for optimising the bots. Means that the risk reward is not something in our control and is identified by AI itself.
That is obviously nonsense. First of all, "genetic algorithms that simulate the natural selection for optimising the bots" doesn't actually mean anything. This is just a bunch of fancy-sounding words that is meant to impress someone who doesn't know much about machine learning.
More importantly, you absolutely control any output from any model. When you are training a model, you are choosing the training data, the loss function, and any additional penalty loss that your model will attempt to minimize.
Does anyone have access to historical data for crypto trading pairs on futures markets? Preferably minute by minute data?
I only wrote this because I think is fair that in a debate all parties should be allowed to express their points of view.
So why did I get blocked from the Telegram group? 
That doesn't seem like it is encouraging open and fair debate. 
You'll notice I didn't lock this thread, even though I could have... and I will certainly not report your post or ask for it to be deleted... precisely because I actually do believe in open and honest debate... unlike others
EDIT: in fact, I'll even archive your post, so that it can still be referenced if it does get removed.
I don’t know if you manually aborted positions in loss that were later won, or switched between bots with wrong timing or had just enough extra stop to skew your risk reward but still get shakeout , but what I see in your trade history is not reflecting the official trade history of GENESIS with extra stop 0%, which I remind, is freely accessible by everyone here
Customer using "genesis": *gets rekt*
CryptoSparks: "You should use extra stops"
Customer uses extra stops: *gets rekt*
CryptoSparks: You should have been using freely available genesis with 0% extra stops
Customer below min bankroll:
I'm not sure what I am supposed to have done... supposedly the bot was going to trade and I could have "passive" income... I lost 60% of my initial investment on Arakne, that I will remind you had absolutely ZERO customisation facility... so what exactly was I supposed to do there?
Then, I used the platform, set the bot going... got rekt, was told to use extra stops, I did that... got rekt... tried the "new" bot... got rekt, tried extra stops, got rekt.
And what do I get in return... a massive essay on how I don't know enough about trading to use an automated trading bot.
So what you're saying is that you need to be a trading expert to use your bot? That is certainly NOT how it was "sold".Every time something happens, it's manipulators or "shake outs" or other bots "targeting" your bots... or it's the users fault for not knowing how to use a platform that has pretty much zero in the way of instructions or explanations of anything.
When it goes up it is "genius algorithm!"...
I documented my experience, and gave my opinion at the end. I certainly didn't start out wanting to lose money... but I honestly was expecting to. I tried to follow what little instruction I was given on how to operate it... and I lost.
That was my experience. All the backtest data and pretty graphs and talk of weak hands, strong hands, money management, exits, stops, manipulations, shakeouts, breakouts, Fibonacci etc... isn't going to change the fact that I lost 90% of my initial investment... while you lost preciously 0%. If I hadn't of had the "free" fee bankroll (which was to make up for my 60% loss with Arakne), and I had had to actually put my own BTC into that, you would have actually made nearly 0.02 BTC from the trading fees... while I lost 0.09 BTC + fees.
The simple fact is that the user carries all the risk... you carry none. You actually make money whether the customer wins or loses.
~
LOL you still think that your verbal diarrhea can cover up the stink of your shitty bots?
If it was as profitable as you're making it sound, you'd be a billionaire by now... probably could afford to refund the
(2,000+ word manuscript explaining why its the customer's fault)
Behold the magic trick of switching to USD... makes everything profitable, and if it doesn't you can always fall back on the Russian ruble or Venezuelan bolivar.
Manticore in December 2020 was on all time high in BTC of 42000+% ROI , then its shorts were hunted, but nevertheless it recovered and reached all time high in USD on April 2021.
Thanks for coming back. I'm just wondering how you could go from this:
To this:
What you are describing sounds like the furthest thing from passive income imaginable.
Under the "WHY" section of your one-pager:
So is the income "passive," or not?
Seems what's more likely than your customer being wrong was your reliance on conclusions biased in your favor, loosely drawn from a limited data set. You made the fatal flaw of assuming backtest data was the same as actual trading data -- it is not. Similarly, talking up a huge game based on unfounded arrogance did not contribute to your success.
HOW TO
1. Create a Bitmex account
2. Deposit the initial investment
3. Generate an API KEY, valid only for order placement and cancellation ( NO WITHDRAW)
4. Send me the API KEY and SECRET via telegram so i can setup the bot.
5. Rent a VPS for 10$. VPS is necessary to always keep the bot running.
4. Enjoy your month of passive income
1. Create a Bitmex account
2. Deposit the initial investment
3. Generate an API KEY, valid only for order placement and cancellation ( NO WITHDRAW)
4. Send me the API KEY and SECRET via telegram so i can setup the bot.
5. Rent a VPS for 10$. VPS is necessary to always keep the bot running.
4. Enjoy your month of passive income
To this:
(2,000+ word manuscript explaining why its the customer's fault)
What you are describing sounds like the furthest thing from passive income imaginable.
Under the "WHY" section of your one-pager:
Quote
6. NO STRESS: Trading and even Holding any asset can result in a lot of stress which
impacts the lifestyle. By securing funds in a cold and tireless bot managing the risk
24/24, you will never have to worry about the frequent and violent market moves of
the crypto-universe.
7.PASSIVE INCOME: Long term safe passive income baked by 2 years of data, trade
history and documented trades easy to verify via API access to our live demo account.
impacts the lifestyle. By securing funds in a cold and tireless bot managing the risk
24/24, you will never have to worry about the frequent and violent market moves of
the crypto-universe.
7.PASSIVE INCOME: Long term safe passive income baked by 2 years of data, trade
history and documented trades easy to verify via API access to our live demo account.
So is the income "passive," or not?
Seems what's more likely than your customer being wrong was your reliance on conclusions biased in your favor, loosely drawn from a limited data set. You made the fatal flaw of assuming backtest data was the same as actual trading data -- it is not. Similarly, talking up a huge game based on unfounded arrogance did not contribute to your success.
Hello everyone.
Long time no see!
I promised to never come back on this forum , simply because would have been pointless and toxic for me fighting against the suchmoon gang (How are you lady btw ? Enjoying the bull I guess
).
The reason is because I got tagged as scammer even when one of our first algorithms, Arakne the market maker, was ruling BitcoinTalk with 6-7 months of 100% win ratio (diary’s link in signature for who is interested in reading the full story).
Never a loss for such a long time, users defending the service all over the place, yet I was the scammer because refused to bend the knees to the MERIT RULERS. That’s when I understood there were simply 0 odds for me of winning an argument against people that are protecting their interests or that just hated me. Honestly, I can admit that sometimes I crossed the thin line between cleverness and arrogance, provoking the gang.
Anyway what I did is let 1 of you, HCP , use the platform for FREE, hoping that he would take time to first understand how a service works then report back without any bias.
Actually, the important point was he understanding the platform, because reports are already available publicly here for every genesis bot:
https://t.me/BotHIVE_io
https://t.me/BotHive
We have nothing to hide, everything is public on bothive, from trades to chat.
Sadly, my hope for HCP learning never realized. What I see here is instead diary of someone that wanted to fail.
Finally bellow min bankroll ? You are surprised it took so long ? That’s a bias mindset which leads to bias results. A self fulfilling prophecy.
You also failed to report how many times your bot lost by shakeout while most of us won the same trade. An example your very last trade.
https://i.imgur.com/XVVCqHH.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/C4JVqnm.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/821JuIe.mp4
As you can see, you’re the only one that lost that trade, other than genesis of course, which trades at 0% extra stop. Nevertheless the loss was reported in trade history and graphs show it.
However , even considering the numerous shakeouts you suffered, I cannot recognise Manticore’s equity line in your personal trade history chart’s final half. Manticore in December 2020 was on all time high in BTC of 42000+% ROI , then its shorts were hunted, but nevertheless it recovered and reached all time high in USD on April 2021.
Amarok, our stop hunter, is on a different cycle than Manticore which is a scalper and was on ATH both BTC and USD this month.
Hydra is a pre-breakout accumulation/distribution algo which went crazy in January while Manticore was suffering the losing shorts and now retracing.
Disclaimer: the charts are BACKTEST which track 1 BTC set as starting bankroll for the bot at January 2019, they not represent actual BTC inside BotHIVE.
I don’t know if you manually aborted positions in loss that were later won, or switched between bots with wrong timing or had just enough extra stop to skew your risk reward but still get shakeout , but what I see in your trade history is not reflecting the official trade history of GENESIS with extra stop 0%, which I remind, is freely accessible by everyone here https://t.me/BotHIVE_io or here https://t.me/BotHive .
I will summarise all points you should have understood , and that are repeated and demonstrated constantly in our community:
1. Markets and Algos present on bothive move in loops of greed and fear. You can also call it Bulls & Bears, but doesn’t change the substance. That’s how ALL markets work, you don’t need to be a trader to know that BTC likes to do -60%/-80% periodically then goes into huge green rallies. That is done on purpose to shake weak hands in deep red and then force them to FOMO IN during the bull market , losing precious coins at every iteration.
SAME EXACT CONCEPT APPLIES FOR ALGOS.
You can argue that algorithms on bothive are not important as I tell, but imagine for a second they are and ask yourself:
Why should the algos that represent the market behave differently than the market itself ?
2. Markets are powered by a few dozen main algorithms that constantly take liquidity from dumb traders that don’t know them. They work as self fulfilling prophecies. Prediction and event are in a circular relationship, according to which the prediction generates the event and the event verifies the prediction. Until someone that knows the algo gets greedy and has big enough liquidity to manipulate them, they will never lose, that’s why the high win ratio.
3. Market loves to trigger liquidity injection from long term winners’ stops.
I read that someone complains about the original risk reward of the bots, which btw are :
Manticore = 0.207
Amarok = 0.262
Hydra = 1.093
Arakne had way to small risk reward for bitcoin, which compared to traditional stock markets has such a low liquidity that can be manipulated a lot easier. For this reason the algo has been delisted.
Is important to point out that we utilise AI and genetic algorithms that simulate the natural selection for optimising the bots. Means that the risk reward is not something in our control and is identified by AI itself. User can lower it with extra stop tho, to not lose on shakeouts, but that also means smaller wins every time.
Since the risk reward and consequently the genesis stops(0% extra stop) are identified by the AI, it means THAT GENESIS STOP is the most profitable long term. read it again. The stop that is hunted is the most profitable. That is the reason why you get shakeout by so little while who has extra stop wins the same trade most of time.
Because market knows that triggering your manticore’s short and then having the strength to push price at genesis stop, will 100% find a lot of liquidity from long term winners willing to buy-out at market positions in order to protect their capital and consequently filling manipulator’s exits). Just like a fisher-man is not interested in keeping small fishes but only the big ones, the same way a manipulator is only interested in shaking out algos with fat wallets because coming from huge win streaks killing dumb traders left and right.
4. As in nature, there’s no life without death . You want 100 % win ratio for each bot ? SORRY ! That would be the death of markets. THE DEATH!
Because a perfect Utopia in nature is not only impossible and not sustainable , but extremely dangerous. I would advise on reading about the American ethologist John Calhoun and his experiments with rats. He gave them paradise, and that killed every single colony at every take of the experiment. Nature doesn’t want that from us and markets follow nature’s laws.
For this reason , no matter how important an algorithm is, it will have to lose sometimes short term just to keep being profitable endlessly. Why ? Because otherwise we would run out of losers ! They would eventually go bankrupt or join winning side and stay there.
Instead what market did to survive by nature’s laws ? The exact same thing LIFE did on the planet: IT SPLIT INTO PIECES(the few dozen algos)
From 1 common ancestor we reached an exponential species diversification. Why ? Well, you get it, to survive death of individual and even species extinction which as we saw are MANDATORY and ultimately continue the path on which life always exists under some form! Same way market wants you to feel fear and quit algos or sell your btc at the end of a bear market which took 80% of your liquidity, so you can die and let others prosper.
5.Did you ever observed how these algos lose ? By manipulation that brings huge profit to manipulator and at the same time saves the algo from extinction. (Point 4).
But what is a manipulation ? It simply takes someone strong enough that knows the algo ( because he/they run it too!) and with big enough liquidity to challenge the self fulfilling prophecy and take a bite of the huge liquidity that accumulates during win streaks. If you challenge Amarok which has 98% win ratio, it means you ( manipulator) have 2% odds of winning the trade. With such a small chance of success, manipulator’s reward must be insanely high. What’s manipulator trade? Same entry as algo but stop at its exits with take profit at the algo’s stop. The exact opposite trade.
How many times have we seen algos miss the profitable exit by literally few dollars then go straight to genesis stop, trigger liquidity then eventually complete the original trade with the help of all stops that meanwhile accumulated at the wick that just missed the exit? Almost every time algo lost should be your honest answer. That’s the manipulation that fucks with your mind the most and is the most common, because you literally missed your profit taking then lost by little just to see trade complete without you. Frustration, fear, blood, all juicy for the market!
A second type of manipulation is when as soon bot triggers , market bounces in opposite direction, then the rest is the same as the most common manipulation.
Without the hand of manipulator, all trades would complete instantly ( how many times have we closed positions in seconds even ? )
6. You can fight manipulator and protect the prophecy by averaging your position. That is done by doubling down your position at fibonacci 0.618 between algos’ entry and genesis stop. I will not go in here why 0.618 is such an important value, but is the constant of the universe.
Since in every trade there are 2 sides, there are also two 0.618, one for the long projection and one for the short projection. So we are talking about 0.382 and 0.618. Lastly you have a final double down , which is where manipulator wants the algo to get stopped and fill his exits. If he wants you to buy out your position with force, maybe is better do the opposite if you have good enough extra stop because eventually price will test your average entry giving you opportunity to get out without loss and gain hedge on the algo that already lost.
Study your trade history and you can see that could have at least got out in even in the trades you lost, because market always retrace to the avg entry obtained by the double downs. Thats why triangles form! Here a few screenshots of different manipulation all following same patterns:
7.Just like you might advice newcomers of bitcoin to NOT buy all at once their coins, especially on top of massive rallies up, is simple statistical and mathematical advantage to apply dollar cost averaging. Same exact concept can be applied with algos. If you want to increase bankroll(or increase max risk or decrease extra stop), the right statistical moment is when algo took a loss and there’s fear. If you want to decrease bankroll(or decrease max risk or increase extra stop), the right statistical moment is during massive win streaks. Is not rocket science , yet the market and loop of fear and greed tempt weak minds into doing the opposite. Exiting when you see losses and increase capital during winning streaks when you feel “this algo will never lose”.
8. Another advice you might give to crypto newcomers is to diversificate among several coins. Same concept applies to algos and that’s why the very first sentence on bothive.io homepage is :
“Build Synthetic Asset Diversification while accumulating Bitcoin”
If we are right and there are a set number of algos that fight each other short term but long term they are all profitable on their own, than the most logic decision is to run them all at same time with balanced bankrolls. Did you see how when your manticore lost , Amarok the stop hunter made several wins ? Is not random. The only way to defeat the loop of fear and greed, is by running all algos. That way you will be part of a self fulfilling ecosystem in which maybe today 1 account loses but 2 wins. Tomorrow the opposite. And in 1 year, they are all in profit because you held during the fear and the greed, just the way you hold your BTC when it goes to shit periodically.
9. Algos equity line follow patterns and respect fibonacci. How cool is that ? Here a few examples that as everything, can be found with bigger details in our telegram:
Breakouts, supports, resistances, trend lines, triangles, fibonacci. All can be used to gain hedge on the algo, to understand what are good entry and exit points.
For example every time there’s a new ATH in USD after a loss, that acts as a breakouts and it means the bot will do a win streak.
On BotHIVE we all share the same destination, but everyone has a different journey because MONEY MANAGEMENT IS THE KEY of any investment.
None can set your MM because what works for me might not work for you.
Platform allows you to set your MAX RISK per position, and to have a different stop than genesis thanks to EXTRA STOP. You can set trailing stops , automatic market exits ecc.
Your bot, your journey.
Very soon also the automatic averaging of position while protecting the prophecy will also be released, a feature that if enabled allows your bot to double down at the magic 0.618s and drop the extra position at the new averaged entry. At every iteration, the risk reward on the trade improves.
10. Why use stops then if they get hunted ? Because of the bot cycles of bear and bull. At some point every bear market ends and a massive winning streak not only recovers the loss of the bear but creates new highs. Using stops and consequently leverage intensifies the compound and the power of the win streak. In the end is more profitable to lose sometime and use leverage than the opposite. Once again , market pushes for the loop of fear and greed so it can mess with weak minds. Does it sound familiar ?
Lastly some closure…
I only wrote this because I think is fair that in a debate all parties should be allowed to express their points of view.
I have also no doubt that this post of mine will be reported to mods and deleted for some stupid reason, just like happened in the past a lot of times.
Our dev team is busier than ever and we are working at amazing features coming up this year, so really no time to fight you ladies and gentlemen .
For the above reasons , I will no longer reply to this thread nor follow it up.
Good luck to all of you, and remember, you only lose when you give up, in life as in markets.
Long time no see!
I promised to never come back on this forum , simply because would have been pointless and toxic for me fighting against the suchmoon gang (How are you lady btw ? Enjoying the bull I guess
).The reason is because I got tagged as scammer even when one of our first algorithms, Arakne the market maker, was ruling BitcoinTalk with 6-7 months of 100% win ratio (diary’s link in signature for who is interested in reading the full story).
Never a loss for such a long time, users defending the service all over the place, yet I was the scammer because refused to bend the knees to the MERIT RULERS. That’s when I understood there were simply 0 odds for me of winning an argument against people that are protecting their interests or that just hated me. Honestly, I can admit that sometimes I crossed the thin line between cleverness and arrogance, provoking the gang.
Anyway what I did is let 1 of you, HCP , use the platform for FREE, hoping that he would take time to first understand how a service works then report back without any bias.
Actually, the important point was he understanding the platform, because reports are already available publicly here for every genesis bot:
https://t.me/BotHIVE_io
https://t.me/BotHive
We have nothing to hide, everything is public on bothive, from trades to chat.
Sadly, my hope for HCP learning never realized. What I see here is instead diary of someone that wanted to fail.
Finally bellow min bankroll ? You are surprised it took so long ? That’s a bias mindset which leads to bias results. A self fulfilling prophecy.
You also failed to report how many times your bot lost by shakeout while most of us won the same trade. An example your very last trade.
https://i.imgur.com/XVVCqHH.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/C4JVqnm.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/821JuIe.mp4
As you can see, you’re the only one that lost that trade, other than genesis of course, which trades at 0% extra stop. Nevertheless the loss was reported in trade history and graphs show it.
However , even considering the numerous shakeouts you suffered, I cannot recognise Manticore’s equity line in your personal trade history chart’s final half. Manticore in December 2020 was on all time high in BTC of 42000+% ROI , then its shorts were hunted, but nevertheless it recovered and reached all time high in USD on April 2021.
Amarok, our stop hunter, is on a different cycle than Manticore which is a scalper and was on ATH both BTC and USD this month.
Hydra is a pre-breakout accumulation/distribution algo which went crazy in January while Manticore was suffering the losing shorts and now retracing.
Disclaimer: the charts are BACKTEST which track 1 BTC set as starting bankroll for the bot at January 2019, they not represent actual BTC inside BotHIVE.
I don’t know if you manually aborted positions in loss that were later won, or switched between bots with wrong timing or had just enough extra stop to skew your risk reward but still get shakeout , but what I see in your trade history is not reflecting the official trade history of GENESIS with extra stop 0%, which I remind, is freely accessible by everyone here https://t.me/BotHIVE_io or here https://t.me/BotHive .
I will summarise all points you should have understood , and that are repeated and demonstrated constantly in our community:
1. Markets and Algos present on bothive move in loops of greed and fear. You can also call it Bulls & Bears, but doesn’t change the substance. That’s how ALL markets work, you don’t need to be a trader to know that BTC likes to do -60%/-80% periodically then goes into huge green rallies. That is done on purpose to shake weak hands in deep red and then force them to FOMO IN during the bull market , losing precious coins at every iteration.
SAME EXACT CONCEPT APPLIES FOR ALGOS.
You can argue that algorithms on bothive are not important as I tell, but imagine for a second they are and ask yourself:
Why should the algos that represent the market behave differently than the market itself ?
2. Markets are powered by a few dozen main algorithms that constantly take liquidity from dumb traders that don’t know them. They work as self fulfilling prophecies. Prediction and event are in a circular relationship, according to which the prediction generates the event and the event verifies the prediction. Until someone that knows the algo gets greedy and has big enough liquidity to manipulate them, they will never lose, that’s why the high win ratio.
3. Market loves to trigger liquidity injection from long term winners’ stops.
I read that someone complains about the original risk reward of the bots, which btw are :
Manticore = 0.207
Amarok = 0.262
Hydra = 1.093
Arakne had way to small risk reward for bitcoin, which compared to traditional stock markets has such a low liquidity that can be manipulated a lot easier. For this reason the algo has been delisted.
Is important to point out that we utilise AI and genetic algorithms that simulate the natural selection for optimising the bots. Means that the risk reward is not something in our control and is identified by AI itself. User can lower it with extra stop tho, to not lose on shakeouts, but that also means smaller wins every time.
Since the risk reward and consequently the genesis stops(0% extra stop) are identified by the AI, it means THAT GENESIS STOP is the most profitable long term. read it again. The stop that is hunted is the most profitable. That is the reason why you get shakeout by so little while who has extra stop wins the same trade most of time.
Because market knows that triggering your manticore’s short and then having the strength to push price at genesis stop, will 100% find a lot of liquidity from long term winners willing to buy-out at market positions in order to protect their capital and consequently filling manipulator’s exits). Just like a fisher-man is not interested in keeping small fishes but only the big ones, the same way a manipulator is only interested in shaking out algos with fat wallets because coming from huge win streaks killing dumb traders left and right.
4. As in nature, there’s no life without death . You want 100 % win ratio for each bot ? SORRY ! That would be the death of markets. THE DEATH!
Because a perfect Utopia in nature is not only impossible and not sustainable , but extremely dangerous. I would advise on reading about the American ethologist John Calhoun and his experiments with rats. He gave them paradise, and that killed every single colony at every take of the experiment. Nature doesn’t want that from us and markets follow nature’s laws.
For this reason , no matter how important an algorithm is, it will have to lose sometimes short term just to keep being profitable endlessly. Why ? Because otherwise we would run out of losers ! They would eventually go bankrupt or join winning side and stay there.
Instead what market did to survive by nature’s laws ? The exact same thing LIFE did on the planet: IT SPLIT INTO PIECES(the few dozen algos)
From 1 common ancestor we reached an exponential species diversification. Why ? Well, you get it, to survive death of individual and even species extinction which as we saw are MANDATORY and ultimately continue the path on which life always exists under some form! Same way market wants you to feel fear and quit algos or sell your btc at the end of a bear market which took 80% of your liquidity, so you can die and let others prosper.
5.Did you ever observed how these algos lose ? By manipulation that brings huge profit to manipulator and at the same time saves the algo from extinction. (Point 4).
But what is a manipulation ? It simply takes someone strong enough that knows the algo ( because he/they run it too!) and with big enough liquidity to challenge the self fulfilling prophecy and take a bite of the huge liquidity that accumulates during win streaks. If you challenge Amarok which has 98% win ratio, it means you ( manipulator) have 2% odds of winning the trade. With such a small chance of success, manipulator’s reward must be insanely high. What’s manipulator trade? Same entry as algo but stop at its exits with take profit at the algo’s stop. The exact opposite trade.
How many times have we seen algos miss the profitable exit by literally few dollars then go straight to genesis stop, trigger liquidity then eventually complete the original trade with the help of all stops that meanwhile accumulated at the wick that just missed the exit? Almost every time algo lost should be your honest answer. That’s the manipulation that fucks with your mind the most and is the most common, because you literally missed your profit taking then lost by little just to see trade complete without you. Frustration, fear, blood, all juicy for the market!
A second type of manipulation is when as soon bot triggers , market bounces in opposite direction, then the rest is the same as the most common manipulation.
Without the hand of manipulator, all trades would complete instantly ( how many times have we closed positions in seconds even ? )
6. You can fight manipulator and protect the prophecy by averaging your position. That is done by doubling down your position at fibonacci 0.618 between algos’ entry and genesis stop. I will not go in here why 0.618 is such an important value, but is the constant of the universe.
Since in every trade there are 2 sides, there are also two 0.618, one for the long projection and one for the short projection. So we are talking about 0.382 and 0.618. Lastly you have a final double down , which is where manipulator wants the algo to get stopped and fill his exits. If he wants you to buy out your position with force, maybe is better do the opposite if you have good enough extra stop because eventually price will test your average entry giving you opportunity to get out without loss and gain hedge on the algo that already lost.
Study your trade history and you can see that could have at least got out in even in the trades you lost, because market always retrace to the avg entry obtained by the double downs. Thats why triangles form! Here a few screenshots of different manipulation all following same patterns:
7.Just like you might advice newcomers of bitcoin to NOT buy all at once their coins, especially on top of massive rallies up, is simple statistical and mathematical advantage to apply dollar cost averaging. Same exact concept can be applied with algos. If you want to increase bankroll(or increase max risk or decrease extra stop), the right statistical moment is when algo took a loss and there’s fear. If you want to decrease bankroll(or decrease max risk or increase extra stop), the right statistical moment is during massive win streaks. Is not rocket science , yet the market and loop of fear and greed tempt weak minds into doing the opposite. Exiting when you see losses and increase capital during winning streaks when you feel “this algo will never lose”.
8. Another advice you might give to crypto newcomers is to diversificate among several coins. Same concept applies to algos and that’s why the very first sentence on bothive.io homepage is :
“Build Synthetic Asset Diversification while accumulating Bitcoin”
If we are right and there are a set number of algos that fight each other short term but long term they are all profitable on their own, than the most logic decision is to run them all at same time with balanced bankrolls. Did you see how when your manticore lost , Amarok the stop hunter made several wins ? Is not random. The only way to defeat the loop of fear and greed, is by running all algos. That way you will be part of a self fulfilling ecosystem in which maybe today 1 account loses but 2 wins. Tomorrow the opposite. And in 1 year, they are all in profit because you held during the fear and the greed, just the way you hold your BTC when it goes to shit periodically.
9. Algos equity line follow patterns and respect fibonacci. How cool is that ? Here a few examples that as everything, can be found with bigger details in our telegram:
Breakouts, supports, resistances, trend lines, triangles, fibonacci. All can be used to gain hedge on the algo, to understand what are good entry and exit points.
For example every time there’s a new ATH in USD after a loss, that acts as a breakouts and it means the bot will do a win streak.
On BotHIVE we all share the same destination, but everyone has a different journey because MONEY MANAGEMENT IS THE KEY of any investment.
None can set your MM because what works for me might not work for you.
Platform allows you to set your MAX RISK per position, and to have a different stop than genesis thanks to EXTRA STOP. You can set trailing stops , automatic market exits ecc.
Your bot, your journey.
Very soon also the automatic averaging of position while protecting the prophecy will also be released, a feature that if enabled allows your bot to double down at the magic 0.618s and drop the extra position at the new averaged entry. At every iteration, the risk reward on the trade improves.
10. Why use stops then if they get hunted ? Because of the bot cycles of bear and bull. At some point every bear market ends and a massive winning streak not only recovers the loss of the bear but creates new highs. Using stops and consequently leverage intensifies the compound and the power of the win streak. In the end is more profitable to lose sometime and use leverage than the opposite. Once again , market pushes for the loop of fear and greed so it can mess with weak minds. Does it sound familiar ?
Lastly some closure…
I only wrote this because I think is fair that in a debate all parties should be allowed to express their points of view.
I have also no doubt that this post of mine will be reported to mods and deleted for some stupid reason, just like happened in the past a lot of times.
Our dev team is busier than ever and we are working at amazing features coming up this year, so really no time to fight you ladies and gentlemen .
For the above reasons , I will no longer reply to this thread nor follow it up.
Good luck to all of you, and remember, you only lose when you give up, in life as in markets.
With a target profit of 1.25%, the EV of the trade is closer to +0.625% of the trade amount. This is based on 4 trades gaining a cumulative 5%.
I might be missing something though. If you are gaining 5% of 30% of your bankroll when you have a profitable trade (4 times), but lose 30% of your bankroll when you have a losing trade, the loss is not 30%, it is 100% of the trade amount. This would be unlikely unless you are using leverage. Or it might be possible if the trade amount is greater than the "max risk" amount. In either case, gaining 5% of 30% of your bankroll over 4 trades (1.25% per trade), and losing 30% of your bankroll on losing trades would have an EV of -0.775% per trade based on a 98% success rate.
No... that's right... you're risking 30% of your bankroll... but when it loses, it tends to lose 100% of what you actually risked. Most of the "gains" were relatively minor... a few percent here and there... you can see the "slow" climb, rather than massive spikes up.I might be missing something though. If you are gaining 5% of 30% of your bankroll when you have a profitable trade (4 times), but lose 30% of your bankroll when you have a losing trade, the loss is not 30%, it is 100% of the trade amount. This would be unlikely unless you are using leverage. Or it might be possible if the trade amount is greater than the "max risk" amount. In either case, gaining 5% of 30% of your bankroll over 4 trades (1.25% per trade), and losing 30% of your bankroll on losing trades would have an EV of -0.775% per trade based on a 98% success rate.
IMO, the stop threshold is too high. If you are trying to make a bunch of 1% gains, you should not be willing to lose 30% of your bankroll waiting for a trade to be profitable. There is the -EV issue noted above, but also, if you had cut your losses at a lower threshold, you could use the proceeds from that trade to make other, profitable trades.
I honestly don't know what the algorithm is hunting for... or how much it is attempting to make "per trade"... you can adjust max risk, you can add "extra" stop % etc and you can even force close the position if you think it's going to get REALLY bad or if you want to take a smaller profit and the bot "stalls" out being the predicted increase/decrease doesn't eventuate and it gets stuck "in trade".If you're interested, you can see the raw trade data in .csv format here: https://mega.nz/file/AlARQISC#pFbvc3qJrXN0kqW3FY5eVtu2X1vHevK2ETuqJL_uqPA
As mentioned... all the 1 "unit" buy/sells should be discounted... the "funding" trades are either fees you pay or get paid for having an open position at a given time, so they should probably be ignored as well.
You're really just looking at limit, market and stop where the number of units is > 1
A trade with a 98% success rate, when success is defined as a 5% gain, failure is defined as a 30% loss will be +EV.
I think some of it is hidden by the fact that if the bot makes 4 trades (it basically sets up 4 buy/sells etc) for a total gain of 5%... that was being counted as 4 separate wins... so, the amount per "win" isn't really 5%... and that would have been 5% of max risk, not your bankroll... so 5% of 30% of your bankroll etc.When your "stop" got hit... that was counted as only 1 loss.
I might be missing something though. If you are gaining 5% of 30% of your bankroll when you have a profitable trade (4 times), but lose 30% of your bankroll when you have a losing trade, the loss is not 30%, it is 100% of the trade amount. This would be unlikely unless you are using leverage. Or it might be possible if the trade amount is greater than the "max risk" amount. In either case, gaining 5% of 30% of your bankroll over 4 trades (1.25% per trade), and losing 30% of your bankroll on losing trades would have an EV of -0.775% per trade based on a 98% success rate.
IMO, the stop threshold is too high. If you are trying to make a bunch of 1% gains, you should not be willing to lose 30% of your bankroll waiting for a trade to be profitable. There is the -EV issue noted above, but also, if you had cut your losses at a lower threshold, you could use the proceeds from that trade to make other, profitable trades.
~
Even if it was 98% successful, you would probably lose money anyway unless (a) you top up your account after the 30% loss or (b) the loss always follows a winning streak. Which is somewhere between insane and improbable.
~
Even if it was 98% successful, you would probably lose money anyway unless (a) you top up your account after the 30% loss or (b) the loss always follows a winning streak. Which is somewhere between insane and improbable.
A trade with a 98% success rate, when success is defined as a 5% gain, failure is defined as a 30% loss will be +EV.
I think some of it is hidden by the fact that if the bot makes 4 trades (it basically sets up 4 buy/sells etc) for a total gain of 5%... that was being counted as 4 separate wins... so, the amount per "win" isn't really 5%... and that would have been 5% of max risk, not your bankroll... so 5% of 30% of your bankroll etc.When your "stop" got hit... that was counted as only 1 loss.
So, using your formula, it would be:
The EV of a trade is as follows:
98%(SUCCESS_RATE) of (5% of 30%) (SUCCESS_PROFIT) = 1.47%
2% (FAILURE_RATE) of 30% (FAILURE_LOSS) = -0.6%
total EV of trade: 0.87%
So, theoretically, it should still be positive... but then you have to take all the fees and stuff into consideration as well.
A rough look shows 33 stops hit... out of 740 odd "trades", but each of those was generally something like 4 limit + 1 market... so it's really more like ~150 actual "trades". So, to me, it's more like 75% success...
It's kinda complicated tho, because the earlier bot was 4 limits + 4 limits (so, 8 entries, rather than 5)... and there are some where individual stops seemed to hit for each order, rather than one wiping out all open positions etc. so my maths on what constitutes a "win" and a "loss" is probably horribly wrong.
I'm also ignoring all the little "buy/sell" 1 things that the bot had to do to avoid the API from being "timed out" etc.
I can export the trade history if you want to do the indepth maths on it all.
Quote from: https://t.me/BotHive/15023
BotHIVE gives you automated and professional tools that you still control with your Money Management and emotions. Money Management is the most important thing, if you can't make money with algos that reach 98% win ratio and when they lose , most of time is by precise shakeout, you will never make money with trading.
All I did was document my experience with his trading bot and the platform... and apparently that makes me emotional with poor money management. The thing he seems to forget with his 98% win ratio... is that it often wins less than 5-10% but will likely lose 100% of your "max risk" (was set to something like 30% of bankroll by default). So, it only takes a couple of loses (which is exactly what you can expect to get with a 2% loss rate) and you're all the way down.
The EV of a trade is as follows:
98%(SUCCESS_RATE) of 5% (SUCCESS_PROFIT) = 4.9%
2% (FAILURE_RATE) of 30% (FAILURE_LOSS) = -0.6%
total EV of trade: 4.3%
Based on the charts you have posted over the course of this experiment, I don't think the bot has a 98% success rate.
If the FAILURE_LOSS is 6 times the SUCCESS_PROFIT, the SUCCESS_RATE needs to be at least 6x the FAILURE_RATE. The markets are not random, so the bot will have to look at some metric(s) to predict when it is more likely for the price of the coin being traded to go up by SUCCESS_PROFIT before it goes down by FAILURE_LOSS.
Guess he’s a shit trader after all..
Quote from: https://t.me/BotHive/15023
BotHIVE gives you automated and professional tools that you still control with your Money Management and emotions. Money Management is the most important thing, if you can't make money with algos that reach 98% win ratio and when they lose , most of time is by precise shakeout, you will never make money with trading.
All I did was document my experience with his trading bot and the platform... and apparently that makes me emotional with poor money management. The thing he seems to forget with his 98% win ratio... is that it often wins less than 5-10% but will likely lose 100% of your "max risk" (was set to something like 30% of bankroll by default). So, it only takes a couple of loses (which is exactly what you can expect to get with a 2% loss rate) and you're all the way down.
You're basically playing dice at 98% chance to win with 30% of your bankroll. Except that dice is (generally) provably fair and not open to "market manipulation" and the whims of the trading market place.
Like this dicebot simulation... starting bankroll 0.1... bet = balance * 0.3 ("30% max risk")... chance 98%...
Looks somewhat familiar... only 23 losses in 1000 rolls... thats a 97.7% win ratio... and I still lost 99.4% of my bankroll.
Anyway... Nice to see he is interested in civilised, open and honest discourse.
Instead, he just throws insults, blames market manipulation and then the end users for not understanding how trading works. 
Sorry for your loss, HCP. It seemed obvious enough at the time, but so many people wanted to defend this scammer I guess this was needed as a "public service." For that I thank you.
The best part is his contradictory response on the Telegram channel, essentially blaming you for not "managing" the "automated" trades correctly.
The best part is his contradictory response on the Telegram channel, essentially blaming you for not "managing" the "automated" trades correctly.
Quote from: CryptoSparks https://t.me/BotHive/15023
[In reply to HCP]
~snip~
Lastly, you have been against this platform from day one and you have proved it so many times that your only interest was FUD. Sentences like "honestly surprised it took this long" , or showing account with 0 balance just to make your claims stronger when these bots never liquidate accounts are just little evidences that your are just a nincompoop that never wanted to profit from platform. Go back in your forum with your gang of scammers that think to rule the world with valueless "merit points" .
~snip~
Lastly, you have been against this platform from day one and you have proved it so many times that your only interest was FUD. Sentences like "honestly surprised it took this long" , or showing account with 0 balance just to make your claims stronger when these bots never liquidate accounts are just little evidences that your are just a nincompoop that never wanted to profit from platform. Go back in your forum with your gang of scammers that think to rule the world with valueless "merit points" .
Ouch... Well, sorry to hear about your losses, and by the sound of things you're only down a couple hundred dollars or so. Thanks for paying for our entertainment for the last... well however long its been since you started this thread.
Your chart looks like something I could replicate in a dice game with a reverse martingale script. Except it would only take me about 5 minutes to replicate the results.
I checked in to the Telegram chat. After you left, he of course made some metaphor about crashing a Ferrari and blamed you. Lol what a douchelord.
Your chart looks like something I could replicate in a dice game with a reverse martingale script. Except it would only take me about 5 minutes to replicate the results.
I checked in to the Telegram chat. After you left, he of course made some metaphor about crashing a Ferrari and blamed you. Lol what a douchelord.
~
Unnecessary as it seemed, I hope your sacrifice will help convince those who would otherwise dismiss red trust and criticism against CryptoSparks... but probably not LOL. Blatant liars like him, particularly ones who learned enough big words to fool an average person, tend to be quite successful.
Well... it was a loooooong slooooooow death... but the inevitable finally happened. Finally got REKT!
My Bitmex balance dipped below the 0.01 BTC min balance required:
It shows on the Bothive platform as 0.00000000 BTC, but on Bitmex it's actually 0.0091 BTC:
Following some "unluck" this past couple of weeks:
Final thoughts:
c'est la vie... in fiat terms, the original 0.1BTC investment was worth around $750... and now my 0.0091 is worth around $530ish... however... considering that 0.1 BTC is now worth USD$5900... I would have been much better off just leaving it sitting in a wallet
Anyway, hopefully, this thread has in some way helped others avoid losing money in this service... even if it was just one person, I would consider it a worthwhile little adventure.
My Bitmex balance dipped below the 0.01 BTC min balance required:
It shows on the Bothive platform as 0.00000000 BTC, but on Bitmex it's actually 0.0091 BTC:
Following some "unluck" this past couple of weeks:
Final thoughts:
c'est la vie... in fiat terms, the original 0.1BTC investment was worth around $750... and now my 0.0091 is worth around $530ish... however... considering that 0.1 BTC is now worth USD$5900... I would have been much better off just leaving it sitting in a wallet
Anyway, hopefully, this thread has in some way helped others avoid losing money in this service... even if it was just one person, I would consider it a worthwhile little adventure.
October 10, 2020, 08:50:15 AM
It still looks like classic martingale.
Yeah that's pretty much what CryptoSparks does. He finds a "strategy" that has a long non-losing streak in his backtests and pretends that it will continue forever. And when it inevitably fails, it's time to blame the whales, or the users not using the bot correctly. And then a new bot that will definitely fix the issue. Except he never puts his own money at risk, such a mystery.
October 10, 2020, 05:24:41 AM
Looks like it's more of an "ABCD" correction pattern this time around
It still looks like classic martingale. October 10, 2020, 12:03:56 AM
Looks like it's more of an "ABCD" correction pattern this time around
Were you using the bot incorrectly again?
The BotHive account still have a 25,000% gain rate overall, so whats a minor loss every now and then?
Just wait until the next bot comes out, Mothra.
Looks like the bot got trapped in a short position, tried to double-down and then triple-down... ouch.
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