Topic: Here is the Seizure Warrant - page 4. (Read 8076 times)
seal team 7 have captured Mark Karpeles he will be given a traditional muslim burial at sea. thats all folks.
Well, looks like this is the result of yet more Gox incompetence. Is it time yet to get out of that exchange yet? How many more of these incidents are Gox users willing to endure?
Well, how to kill US based bitcoin businesses 1-2-3:
1. Issue guidance (Fincen) that they need to have money transmitting licenses.
2. Attack existing companies in the bitcoin industry without giving them a chance to get a license first.
3. Profit
A more fair way to go about things, which should be done by sensible humans would be to say: Hey, you've got a business running, are you aware of the new requirements for licensing ? You have 6 months to comply with the licensing requirements and get a license, or you will have to close up shop.
But in reality it's all about power. Power for the ones sitting on the top of the food chain, and their friends. If they don't like you, there's essentially nothing you can do - there's always something to frame you on.
No one should have to hold their hand, it is their responsibility to ensure that their business meets regulatory requirements, and every other major exchange in the states seems to have figured it out, even before the FinCEN document. I would not feel safe keeping money or BTC in Gox right now, who knows what other requirements they may have failed to meet on the Japan side of things.
Well, looks like this is the result of yet more Gox incompetence. Is it time yet to get out of that exchange yet? How many more of these incidents are Gox users willing to endure?
Well, how to kill US based bitcoin businesses 1-2-3:
1. Issue guidance (Fincen) that they need to have money transmitting licenses.
2. Attack existing companies in the bitcoin industry without giving them a chance to get a license first.
3. Profit
A more fair way to go about things, which should be done by sensible humans would be to say: Hey, you've got a business running, are you aware of the new requirements for licensing ? You have 6 months to comply with the licensing requirements and get a license, or you will have to close up shop.
But in reality it's all about power. Power for the ones sitting on the top of the food chain, and their friends. If they don't like you, there's essentially nothing you can do - there's always something to frame you on.
Buying bitcoin is illegal or something?
?? 
Looks like the price of coin is still rising, lol.
That is exactly what the value of an un-seizable asset should do in the presence of seizures.
Well, looks like this is the result of yet more Gox incompetence. Is it time yet to get out of that exchange yet? How many more of these incidents are Gox users willing to endure?
Looks like the price of coin is still rising, lol.
Typically, Once a govt agency seizes funds, those funds are never recovered.
Bullshit.
It is impossible to transmit every single order by Mutum Sigillum to Mtgox in Japan on behalf of their clients, because wire costs would kill the buisness. The two companies were merly reducing funds imbalance from time to time - it cannot be called transmitting money on behalf of their clients. And Mtgox is out of U.S jurisdiction, so unlicenced money exchange part does not apply as well.
I think we are dealing with political attack.
And so the shitstorm begins!
It is impossible to transmit every single order by Mutum Sigillum to Mtgox in Japan on behalf of their clients, because wire costs would kill the buisness. The two companies were merly reducing funds imbalance from time to time - it cannot be called transmitting money on behalf of their clients. And Mtgox is out of U.S jurisdiction, so unlicenced money exchange part does not apply as well.
I think we are dealing with political attack.
And so the shitstorm begins!
Yes, we do know the people behind the Coinlab lawsuit has deep pockets, also with political connections. So they could pull this off.
It looks like it is the transfer of the money from the Iowa bank account to Dwolla, in order to facilitate a customer transaction, that will really get them in trouble here. That transfer is denominated in USD, and appears to be based on customer requests.
The application made by M. Karpeles for the bank account which stated they were not in the money transmitting business is also going to hurt. Perhaps he can argue that the account was originally intended for a different use. It will sort of depend on when it was linked to Dwolla.
Overall, this seems like more trouble for Mt. Gox arising from their unprofessional practices.
CampBX had better start gearing up for an increase in volume.
I am trying to figure out a way that you could argue that Mt. Gox is not involved in the transfer of USD, only BTC.
The application made by M. Karpeles for the bank account which stated they were not in the money transmitting business is also going to hurt. Perhaps he can argue that the account was originally intended for a different use. It will sort of depend on when it was linked to Dwolla.
Overall, this seems like more trouble for Mt. Gox arising from their unprofessional practices.
CampBX had better start gearing up for an increase in volume.
I am trying to figure out a way that you could argue that Mt. Gox is not involved in the transfer of USD, only BTC.
This is pretty much THE test case which will determine Bitcoin's future. If Gox loses, the various gov't departments will have precedent to go after EVERYTHING BTC businesses are at risk for when Bitcoin's considered a currency.
Why? That doesn't make any sense. The only reason they have a case at all is because Mark did not register as a money transfer business. Both CampBX and Coinbase are registered, so they would have no case.
Bullshit.
It is impossible to transmit every single order by Mutum Sigillum to Mtgox in Japan on behalf of their clients, because wire costs would kill the buisness. The two companies were merly reducing funds imbalance from time to time - it cannot be called transmitting money on behalf of their clients. And Mtgox is out of U.S jurisdiction, so unlicenced money exchange part does not apply as well.
I think we are dealing with political attack.
And so the shitstorm begins!
It is impossible to transmit every single order by Mutum Sigillum to Mtgox in Japan on behalf of their clients, because wire costs would kill the buisness. The two companies were merly reducing funds imbalance from time to time - it cannot be called transmitting money on behalf of their clients. And Mtgox is out of U.S jurisdiction, so unlicenced money exchange part does not apply as well.
I think we are dealing with political attack.
And so the shitstorm begins!
Perhaps CoinLab suggested to the Feds that they may be interested in investigating this issue.
Na, that sounds too plausible.
Perhaps CoinLab suggested to the Feds that they may be interested in investigating this issue.
50$ comes in bank account from person X
... nothing happens with money ...
50$ goes out bank account to person Y
= money transmitter
... nothing happens with money ...
50$ goes out bank account to person Y
= money transmitter
Love it. Money in banks allowed, money moving out bad
This is bogus. Mutum Silligum does not transfer money, Dowalla does. Mutum is a vendor, they are only transferring the money to the parent company.
This would be the same as busting a Google subsidiary in Germany for not registering as a "Money transmitting business" because they sent profit back to the U.S. parent company.
The agent went Full Retard. Either that or it's a real attack.
This would be the same as busting a Google subsidiary in Germany for not registering as a "Money transmitting business" because they sent profit back to the U.S. parent company.
The agent went Full Retard. Either that or it's a real attack.
50$ comes in bank account from person X
... nothing happens with money ...
50$ goes out bank account to person Y
= money transmitter
... nothing happens with money ...
50$ goes out bank account to person Y
= money transmitter
Mt.Gox is going to have to prove no USD actually moved from USA to Japan when a customer put money in / took money out. If this is not the case or they can't prove it they are in trouble.
The other issue is bitcoin and if the govt is going to try to call it currency.
I'll bet the leadership is kicking themselves right now they didn't follow through selling North American Ops to coinlab... Could have avoided the US govt's nonsense and saved $50 million +
Beginning of the end for Gox?
That's what I was thinking. This could have been a non-issue if the deal had not fallen apart. I don't get it. They saw the FinCen thing stating that they had to become a money transmitter or they will be in violation of the law. Did they think that was a joke? The other issue is bitcoin and if the govt is going to try to call it currency.
I'll bet the leadership is kicking themselves right now they didn't follow through selling North American Ops to coinlab... Could have avoided the US govt's nonsense and saved $50 million +
Beginning of the end for Gox?
Note that the warrant mentions STATE registration. There are 50 states. Something like 49 of them, plus or minus, require registration at the STATE level for this kinda biz. Think about the absurdity of this. Let's say every jurisdiction in the world had similar requirements to in the US (and to be fair, many do, though the effectiveness of enforcement is not uniform). It is thus financially impossible to run an international currency exchange without an enormous legal and compliance budget. Basically you have to be a large financial institution to do this. If you're a well-capitalized startup, then you must focus on a single market (e.g. US only, or Japan only) and pray that you can build partnerships with well-capitalized players in other markets, or else are acquired by a big financial institution that already has a presence in multiple markets.
EDIT: if you're not a well-capitalized startup, but just a software engineer playing with new technology and ideas... better stick to monopoly money or something that has no value.
EDIT: if you're not a well-capitalized startup, but just a software engineer playing with new technology and ideas... better stick to monopoly money or something that has no value.
Oh great... Fucking defend with anything you've got.
If they win, bitcoin loses.
If they win, bitcoin loses.
Jump to: