Mt.Gox is going to have to prove no USD actually moved from USA to Japan when a customer put money in / took money out. If this is not the case or they can't prove it they are in trouble.
The other issue is bitcoin and if the govt is going to try to call it currency.
I'll bet the leadership is kicking themselves right now they didn't follow through selling North American Ops to coinlab... Could have avoided the US govt's nonsense and saved $50 million +
Beginning of the end for Gox?
Topic: Here is the Seizure Warrant - page 5. (Read 8076 times)
TLDR: the Feds found out Mt-Gox lied when setting up a bank account in the USA. And So they just took all the money in said account.
its unknowable if this is a isolated event or part of a larger move to crack down on Bitcoin.
its unknowable if this is a isolated event or part of a larger move to crack down on Bitcoin.
Quote
That document was completed on May 20, 2011 and identified Mutum Sigillum LLC as a business not engaged in money services. The application asks several questions; to include, "Do you deal in or exchange currency for your customer?" and "Does your business accept funds from customers and send the funds based on customers' instructions (Money Transmitter)?" Karpeles answered these questions "no," indicating that Mutum Sigillum LLC does not deal in or exchange money, and that it does not send funds based on customer instructions.
Here is how i see things in Gox's defence,
"Do you deal in or exchange currency for your customer?"
If Mutum Sigillum LLC was setup to merely hold deposits in a US bank account, then the LLC was not directly dealing with currency exchange.
Any exchange was done by MtGox which is based in Japan and not required to be bound by US rules/regulations.
"Does your business accept funds from customers and send the funds based on customers' instructions (Money Transmitter)?"
Again if the customer funds remained in the Wells Fargo account in US and never moved from that bank account to Japan, he rightfully answered no.
There are two sad realities here.
1) I have absolutely zero confidence in the MtGox legal defense team
2) If MtGox goes down, it will be a loooong time before bitcoin can recover
Hopefully someone can provide some relief
1) I have absolutely zero confidence in the MtGox legal defense team
2) If MtGox goes down, it will be a loooong time before bitcoin can recover
Hopefully someone can provide some relief
Who is the Maryland Snitch?
This was pretty shocking to read. They're calling Bitcoin a currency, now... same rules as the dollar (except it isn't legal tender, obv), and I guess we can now say it's recognized by the government... Hm.
This is pretty much THE test case which will determine Bitcoin's future. If Gox loses, the various gov't departments will have precedent to go after EVERYTHING BTC businesses are at risk for when Bitcoin's considered a currency.
Before anybody goes and says that Gox is immune because they are in Japan, I just want to state that Japan would actually be very quick to react. In the past they have been more than happy to get rid of a foreign company if there is even a slight whiff of something dodgy going on. They don't want bullshit from foreign companies.
I expect Gox will be expelled from their office in Shibuya before June.
Based on their track record I wouldn't be surprised for a monumental fuckup, Mark has proven to be criminally negligent on multiple occasions not least of all the reaction to the 2011 hack, not to mention the pirate fiasco.
This is your last warning mark, flee the country and go somewhere safe now or you will find yourself in prison very soon. You don't want to be the only 外国人 in a Japanese prison now, do you? At least you will loose that belly of yours on a bowl of white rice and a glass of water every day.
Gox isn't immune because they deal with US customers and USD. Further, Mark's Mutum Sigillum LLC is based in Delaware. If Mark is charged, and they do single him out in the warrant, he's likely to be extradited before he can even research and get a passport to a place which might not extradite him.I expect Gox will be expelled from their office in Shibuya before June.
Based on their track record I wouldn't be surprised for a monumental fuckup, Mark has proven to be criminally negligent on multiple occasions not least of all the reaction to the 2011 hack, not to mention the pirate fiasco.
This is your last warning mark, flee the country and go somewhere safe now or you will find yourself in prison very soon. You don't want to be the only 外国人 in a Japanese prison now, do you? At least you will loose that belly of yours on a bowl of white rice and a glass of water every day.
This is pretty much THE test case which will determine Bitcoin's future. If Gox loses, the various gov't departments will have precedent to go after EVERYTHING BTC businesses are at risk for when Bitcoin's considered a currency.
Before anybody goes and says that Gox is immune because they are in Japan, I just want to state that Japan would actually be very quick to react. In the past they have been more than happy to get rid of a foreign company if there is even a slight whiff of something dodgy going on. They don't want bullshit from foreign companies.
I expect Gox will be expelled from their office in Shibuya before June.
Based on their track record I wouldn't be surprised for a monumental fuckup, Mark has proven to be criminally negligent on multiple occasions not least of all the reaction to the 2011 hack, not to mention the pirate fiasco.
This is your last warning mark, flee the country and go somewhere safe now or you will find yourself in prison very soon. You don't want to be the only 外国人 in a Japanese prison now, do you? At least you will loose that belly of yours on one bowl of white rice and a glass of water every day.
At the very least this is grounds for him to have his visa revoked making him unable to continue working in Japan. Then it's just a case of what happens to the company and it's assets.
I expect Gox will be expelled from their office in Shibuya before June.
Based on their track record I wouldn't be surprised for a monumental fuckup, Mark has proven to be criminally negligent on multiple occasions not least of all the reaction to the 2011 hack, not to mention the pirate fiasco.
This is your last warning mark, flee the country and go somewhere safe now or you will find yourself in prison very soon. You don't want to be the only 外国人 in a Japanese prison now, do you? At least you will loose that belly of yours on one bowl of white rice and a glass of water every day.
At the very least this is grounds for him to have his visa revoked making him unable to continue working in Japan. Then it's just a case of what happens to the company and it's assets.
This is acting on the new guidelines set forth by FinSEC. These guidelines are not law and therefore this is not a legal proceeding.
Really, dude? A Court Order signed by a US District Court Judge and executed by DHS isn't a legal proceeding?
FinCen Guidelines? You didn't even read the warrant, did you?
So a Bitcoin is money now and not a commodity anymore?
There wasn't bitcoin in that Dwolla acct...it was about deposting and withdrawing fiat.
It reads like they see Bitcoins as currency now.
So a Bitcoin is money now and not a commodity anymore?
There wasn't bitcoin in that Dwolla acct...it was about deposting and withdrawing fiat.
This is acting on the new guidelines set forth by FinSEC. These guidelines are not law and therefore this is not a legal proceeding.
It doesn't say the amount of funds in the account. Anyone know?
The warrant is drafted before a seizure,maybe Gox can enlighten us..The link is taken from this news:http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/05/feds-reveal-the-search-warrant-that-seized-mt-gox-account/
So a Bitcoin is money now and not a commodity anymore?
It doesn't say the amount of funds in the account. Anyone know?
http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Mt-Gox-Dwolla-Warrant-5-14-13.pdf
The target is clearly Mtgox.
The target is clearly Mtgox.
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