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Topic: here's just how screwed ASIC buyers are - READ THIS if you have a preorder - page 5. (Read 23314 times)

legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 2119
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

Huh I'm going to be burning 1-2Gh/W compared to .01Gh/1W with an FPGA single. This is wasteful? Huh

Sorry, that was a little ambiguous. I mean that running against testnet is wasteful (assuming that you are reasonably confident that your operations will be valid).
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250

Far from it. The point is to isolate mining with the prototype devices to prevent network disruptions (in total hash rate, difficulty, and profitability). If it was discovered the any of the companies were profiting on their own product, it wouldn't make the community very happy, including their investors. It's a terrible business model.

The same applies to the drug trade...don't use your own product Wink

Well, they wouldn't profit as they'd be passing it on to their customers. It might also count as a bit of reassurance : "This device generated x bitcoins in y minutes". Not that I mind either way as I'm not going ASIC, it just seems a shame to waste energy (assuming all other things equal)

It's a nice idea, but it should have been conceived of, communicated, and articulated in the plan up-front. What you refer to may happen as a promotional thing in the future, but at this point everyone is all "shut up and take my money" so why put all that extra effort into some (very) fancy coupons? When you have a business venture growing at a massive rate the last thing you want to do is add any complications that are not absolutely needed.

Huh I'm going to be burning 1-2Gh/W compared to .01Gh/1W with an FPGA single. This is wasteful? Huh

Of course, all other things are not equal, every miner helps add to the security of the network which is why it pays in proportion with the contribution. Contribute less security, get less Bitcoin.

If you want to be green, decide on a wattage that you are willing to donate to bitcoin, and pay for carbon offsets to match that wattage. Every 3, 6 or 12 months buy the gear with the best GH/W rating that fits in your wattage allowance (and get some extra carbon credits for the manufacturing cost offset)

Personally this is too much trouble for me, so I'm replacing a standard light bulb with a florescent or LED bulb for every 10Gh and calling it even.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Sure I believe them. Especially BFL. Come on, don't be naive. What stops any manufacturer from mining for themselves and ignore it is them?

Just wondering. Hypothetically, an ASIC manufacturer could mine with prototypes themselves (or have it done by an accomplice) and blame the increase in difficulty on another manufacturer.

Like to quote yourself much?

Of course the answer in reality in a physical sense is nothing can be done to stop it, but you should ask instead why would they?

OTOH, if you run BFL and your investors come and take the company you built away because you violated their trust and the trust of your customers, you might regret the decision to voilate that trust.

BFL is not 2 guys sitting in a basement somewhere. There are real business agreements, salaries, leases, and other things ties up in running a business than you seem to acknowledge. There are real world obligations and long term opportunities for these businesses to continue serving a community for quite a white, or get acquired by someone if it starts amounting to more than chump change. Contrary to what some would have you believe, BFL keeps investing and appears to be in this for the long haul. CablePair and ngzhang are similarly trying to grow a stable business. Unlike a scam, these businesses must continue to build trust and keep customers coming back.

In case it had not occurred to you, the ~180TH/s that has been sold so far is a drop in the bucket compared to the market available for ASIC. We should see 1-2 Petahash/s sold over the next 12-18 months. 90% of the ASIC profits for this period are still up for grabs, why bow out now!?
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 2119
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

Far from it. The point is to isolate mining with the prototype devices to prevent network disruptions (in total hash rate, difficulty, and profitability). If it was discovered the any of the companies were profiting on their own product, it wouldn't make the community very happy, including their investors. It's a terrible business model.

The same applies to the drug trade...don't use your own product Wink

Well, they wouldn't profit as they'd be passing it on to their customers. It might also count as a bit of reassurance : "This device generated x bitcoins in y minutes". Not that I mind either way as I'm not going ASIC, it just seems a shame to waste energy (assuming all other things equal)
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
who hit rewind...

BFL, CablePair, Avalon have all publicly stated they will use testnet in a box.

That's just a waste of money. They should mine real BTC during the burn in but put them in a paper wallet they include in the box.

Far from it. The point is to isolate mining with the prototype devices to prevent network disruptions (in total hash rate, difficulty, and profitability). If it was discovered the any of the companies were profiting on their own product, it wouldn't make the community very happy, including their investors. It's a terrible business model.

The same applies to the drug trade...don't use your own product Wink
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 2119
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
who hit rewind...

BFL, CablePair, Avalon have all publicly stated they will use testnet in a box.

That's just a waste of money. They should mine real BTC during the burn in but put them in a paper wallet they include in the box.
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
Just wondering. Hypothetically, an ASIC manufacturer could mine with prototypes themselves (or have it done by an accomplice) and blame the increase in difficulty on another manufacturer.

Ha, good point. bASIC goes all out with mining and we all blame it on BFL  ..and then out of anger for BFL we start preordering from the competition  Grin
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
In cryptography we trust
Sure I believe them. Especially BFL. Come on, don't be naive. What stops any manufacturer from mining for themselves and ignore it is them?

Just wondering. Hypothetically, an ASIC manufacturer could mine with prototypes themselves (or have it done by an accomplice) and blame the increase in difficulty on another manufacturer.
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
In spite of your (repeated) unwillingness to accept it, folks tend to have this thing called a "business model." In the case of BFL this business model is to sell hardware to all us crazy people who want to buy it. THIS is what they got investment capital on, not the power of Bitcoin, and their investors will (righteously) be pissed off if they find out BFL was using their own product (bad in the drug trade, bad in business) rather than selling it to their customers.

Mining with the equipment they want to sell would directly devalue said equipment as the potential profit falls and the next generation of hardware would have to be cheaper. Right now BFL can keep raising the (overall product) price with each generation, they don;t want to do anything to prevent that, including mining themselves.

You don't see Husqvana opening up a lumber mill, same principle here.

Quite right. The object is to keep your customers happy and coming back when you release product updates (or new products altogether). For BFL to use their own product would completely alienate the bitcoin community, effectively signing their own letter of insolvency as we all switch to using products from their competitors.
sr. member
Activity: 560
Merit: 256

In spite of your (repeated) unwillingness to accept it, folks tend to have this thing called a "business model." In the case of BFL this business model is to sell hardware to all us crazy people who want to buy it. THIS is wht they got inventment capital on, not the power of bitcoin, and their investors will (richeously) be pissed off if they find out BFL was using their own product (bad in the drug trade, bad in business) rather than selling it to their customers.

...

You don't see Husqvana opening up a lumber mill, same principle here.

Nicely said. +1

And bitcoin community, fickle as it is, it will negatively react to any attempts by the hardware producers to mine first, sell later. That doesn't bode well for their future business if any of them tries that.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
To all those people who think they get more BTC in the first few days-weeks.....

What will happen if the ASIC manufactures blow up the difficulty before they start shipping? they got there money anyways.... Who ever gets them late thinks they are not the first inline....

Whos gonna benefit...

i think i keep away from all this mining and just trade BTC's. its more profitable that way



who hit rewind...

BFL, CablePair, Avalon have all publicly stated they will use testnet in a box.

ASICMINER is the only one I worry about, because it is their intent to mine with them first, and they have stated so all along. It sounds like they might be 2-4 weeks behind BFL though, and Tom is shipping in November/December as well, so the race is on...
Sure I believe them. Especially BFL. Come on, don't be naive. What stops any manufacturer from mining for themselves and ignore it is them?

In spite of your (repeated) unwillingness to accept it, folks tend to have this thing called a "business model." In the case of BFL this business model is to sell hardware to all us crazy people who want to buy it. THIS is what they got investment capital on, not the power of Bitcoin, and their investors will (righteously) be pissed off if they find out BFL was using their own product (bad in the drug trade, bad in business) rather than selling it to their customers.

Mining with the equipment they want to sell would directly devalue said equipment as the potential profit falls and the next generation of hardware would have to be cheaper. Right now BFL can keep raising the (overall product) price with each generation, they don;t want to do anything to prevent that, including mining themselves.

You don't see Husqvana opening up a lumber mill, same principle here.
hero member
Activity: 752
Merit: 500
bitcoin hodler
To all those people who think they get more BTC in the first few days-weeks.....

What will happen if the ASIC manufactures blow up the difficulty before they start shipping? they got there money anyways.... Who ever gets them late thinks they are not the first inline....

Whos gonna benefit...

i think i keep away from all this mining and just trade BTC's. its more profitable that way



who hit rewind...

BFL, CablePair, Avalon have all publicly stated they will use testnet in a box.

ASICMINER is the only one I worry about, because it is their intent to mine with them first, and they have stated so all along. It sounds like they might be 2-4 weeks behind BFL though, and Tom is shipping in November/December as well, so the race is on...

Sure I believe them. Especially BFL. Come on, don't be naive. What stops any manufacturer from mining for themselves and ignore it is them?

they're in it for selling the hardware, so why should they mine...
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
In cryptography we trust
To all those people who think they get more BTC in the first few days-weeks.....

What will happen if the ASIC manufactures blow up the difficulty before they start shipping? they got there money anyways.... Who ever gets them late thinks they are not the first inline....

Whos gonna benefit...

i think i keep away from all this mining and just trade BTC's. its more profitable that way



who hit rewind...

BFL, CablePair, Avalon have all publicly stated they will use testnet in a box.

ASICMINER is the only one I worry about, because it is their intent to mine with them first, and they have stated so all along. It sounds like they might be 2-4 weeks behind BFL though, and Tom is shipping in November/December as well, so the race is on...

Sure I believe them. Especially BFL. Come on, don't be naive. What stops any manufacturer from mining for themselves and ignore it is them?
hero member
Activity: 540
Merit: 500
COINDER
To all those people who think they get more BTC in the first few days-weeks.....

What will happen if the ASIC manufactures blow up the difficulty before they start shipping? they got there money anyways.... Who ever gets them late thinks they are not the first inline....

Whos gonna benefit...

i think i keep away from all this mining and just trade BTC's. its more profitable that way



who hit rewind...

BFL, CablePair, Avalon have all publicly stated they will use testnet in a box.

ASICMINER is the only one I worry about, because it is their intent to mine with them first, and they have stated so all along. It sounds like they might be 2-4 weeks behind BFL though, and Tom is shipping in November/December as well, so the race is on...

what is he shipping it,s 23-10-2012 no signs of any WORKING ASIC yet everyone keeps pointing delivery dates as soon as november/december Huh Huh i just don,t understand how this could be possible...tell me if i missed the actual working device with the custom chip..that will get shipped next week or three from now Huh Huh
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
To all those people who think they get more BTC in the first few days-weeks.....

What will happen if the ASIC manufactures blow up the difficulty before they start shipping? they got there money anyways.... Who ever gets them late thinks they are not the first inline....

Whos gonna benefit...

i think i keep away from all this mining and just trade BTC's. its more profitable that way



who hit rewind...

BFL, CablePair, Avalon have all publicly stated they will use testnet in a box.

ASICMINER is the only one I worry about, because it is their intent to mine with them first, and they have stated so all along. It sounds like they might be 2-4 weeks behind BFL though, and Tom is shipping in November/December as well, so the race is on...
member
Activity: 86
Merit: 10
To all those people who think they get more BTC in the first few days-weeks.....

What will happen if the ASIC manufactures blow up the difficulty before they start shipping? they got there money anyways.... Who ever gets them late thinks they are not the first inline....

Whos gonna benefit...

i think i keep away from all this mining and just trade BTC's. its more profitable that way

hero member
Activity: 540
Merit: 500
COINDER
OP there is a low probability that the price will stay at or below $12.80 for very long. If the price goes up the time it takes to pay off the cost of BFL hardware will go down.

What is there to drive the price up? At the moment it feels like we have been fluctuating at ~ 11.6usd/btc for awhile now...

You forget that there is 1.5 Quadrillion Dollars floating around the planet in different forms.

Not much needs to go into bitcoin to push the price up to $15, $20, $50, $100.

DO the math.

yep..

and we could use some trendsetter kind of famus company to adopt BTC and take it to another level so that more retailers and online webshops will adopt/accept BTC ( or some colombians tired moving cases of cash across boarder)  and after halving day less BTC will be pumpt in the economie and if the demand get bigger that also could make some price rise..we will see..i think the price will stay around 11,- untill some big changes in BTC accured like halving day and the yes or no of ASIC release.. Tongue
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
OP there is a low probability that the price will stay at or below $12.80 for very long. If the price goes up the time it takes to pay off the cost of BFL hardware will go down.

What is there to drive the price up? At the moment it feels like we have been fluctuating at ~ 11.6usd/btc for awhile now...

You forget that there is 1.5 Quadrillion Dollars floating around the planet in different forms.

Not much needs to go into bitcoin to push the price up to $15, $20, $50, $100.

DO the math.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
OP there is a low probability that the price will stay at or below $12.80 for very long. If the price goes up the time it takes to pay off the cost of BFL hardware will go down.

What is there to drive the price up? At the moment it feels like we have been fluctuating at ~ 11.6usd/btc for awhile now...
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
OP there is a low probability that the price will stay at or below $12.80 for very long. If the price goes up the time it takes to pay off the cost of BFL hardware will go down.
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