Closest thing I ever did to that was a short stay in the UK, which coincided with Liverpool's run to the final of Europa League in 2016 (we lost the final but it was unexpected, and Kloppomania had just begun).
Opened new accounts with almost every bookie I ran into -- online and at the shops. Didn't know there were so many! All books give new players a first bet promo, which pays out really generously. They limit you to something like 2 GBP per bet, but payouts were something like 50/1 on Liverpool wins. So I did this at every stage of the game on a new bookie all the way to the final.
Then throughout Europa, they all ran similar promos even in EPL. Boosted prices on small things like scorer, first scorer. I put almost every scorer promo on Daniel Sturridge. Who was on a hot streak that season.
With something less than 50 pounds outlay, I ended up with huge profits thanks to Liverpool's crazy run. Lost quite a bit in the final (which we didn't win) but ended the season well.
Left the UK so closed out all my bookie accounts.
But that wasn't me not going back again, that was just me unable to return =)
Topic: Hit And Run Gambling - Can The House Be Beaten This way? - page 5. (Read 817 times)
<...>
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
You have a lot of confusion here. When we say that you can't beat the house, we are talking about the long term, and the two examples you give are short term. So no, you can't beat the house, and it doesn't care if you get lucky on the first play, cash out and don't come back because its business model is based on a lot of people betting, on big numbers, and not on what a player does on an individual play.
hits which you are the ones who would really be able to say that you had beaten up the house.Its true but not on general sense or point that you had able to do so.It is really just you had made out the right decision
on stopping and putting those profits in good use and never intend to go further because it would really just mess up entirely once you do decide on making yourself
gamble up and asking for more and this is where gambler do most fall.
Lol, Am gone through every comment and I must say that i enjoyed the the conversation so far,
To add, i personally know that the scenarios i mentioned is (though very possible to happen) unlikely, at least, I know a someone who won close to $7000 on his second day of gambling, he started the first day and gambled away $15, after about 2 weeks, he came back to the same casino, deposited $100 and started playing one of this pragmatic games, betting random amount on each round of the game, he got luck and won over 15 free rounds, through this rounds, he won several multipliers and that was how he's total winning amount to $6,879, that is a lot of money if converted to my countries currency, I advised him to withdraw that money and start a business with it, and forget about gambling, he did obey, started a business but later went into gambling again without me knowing, I only got to know that he went back to gambling when I saw that he's business wasn't doing well as it suppose, I tried inquiring from him what's going on, he later opened up to me that he lost over $2000 on sports betting some weeks back, and the loss is affecting his business.
This was how the idea of this thread came by.
To add, i personally know that the scenarios i mentioned is (though very possible to happen) unlikely, at least, I know a someone who won close to $7000 on his second day of gambling, he started the first day and gambled away $15, after about 2 weeks, he came back to the same casino, deposited $100 and started playing one of this pragmatic games, betting random amount on each round of the game, he got luck and won over 15 free rounds, through this rounds, he won several multipliers and that was how he's total winning amount to $6,879, that is a lot of money if converted to my countries currency, I advised him to withdraw that money and start a business with it, and forget about gambling, he did obey, started a business but later went into gambling again without me knowing, I only got to know that he went back to gambling when I saw that he's business wasn't doing well as it suppose, I tried inquiring from him what's going on, he later opened up to me that he lost over $2000 on sports betting some weeks back, and the loss is affecting his business.
This was how the idea of this thread came by.
Oh ok, I knew it, for starters that is a huge money to win in the casino, even here it's a huge money already and you can open a business and sustain it. And it's good that he listens to your advise, put a business with that money. However, your friend is also thinking at getting back in gambling again and maybe thought why not, perhaps he can won big again? Unfortunately, lady luck doesn't strike twice, that's why when you win big, it's better not to come back because you are going to be misled and things goes unexpectedly that your friend didn't have control of his money, losing big $2k in the process. And now the business is not doing good and it could ruin him if he will not focus on it and instead try to gamble often.
If the scenario is the first, it's true that you have won thousands of dollars from the casino but as a new gambler, will the casino let you withdraw the winnings? Certainly not. The casino will ask you to do KYC and they will process the withdrawal request if you really don't break the rules. But if the casino allows you to withdraw those thousands of dollars in winnings, you really are very lucky as a new gambler.
The second scenario is almost similar to what happened in the first scenario. Unless you have done KYC in both scenarios, the casino will probably process your withdrawal request immediately. But it depends on each casino because each casino has its own rules.
And even if you have managed to withdraw your money, the casino is still the winner because they managed to get more money from the losing gamblers.
The second scenario is almost similar to what happened in the first scenario. Unless you have done KYC in both scenarios, the casino will probably process your withdrawal request immediately. But it depends on each casino because each casino has its own rules.
And even if you have managed to withdraw your money, the casino is still the winner because they managed to get more money from the losing gamblers.
Assume that he passes all the KYC necessary in order to withdraw, I say that it's a pretty good thing to do to quit while you're ahead because you already got something out of the casino. You may come back from time to time for some quick sessions that sets you back a few dollars at best but I guess that's just it. Or better, just forget about gambling at all.
Also, the scenario only talks about an individual winning against the house. We all know that the house always wins due to the number of gamblers in their platform, but at this single instance, the house lost against a smart gambler who decides to dip when he had the chance.
hero member
Activity: 2912
Merit: 541
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
If the scenario is the first, it's true that you have won thousands of dollars from the casino but as a new gambler, will the casino let you withdraw the winnings? Certainly not. The casino will ask you to do KYC and they will process the withdrawal request if you really don't break the rules. But if the casino allows you to withdraw those thousands of dollars in winnings, you really are very lucky as a new gambler.
The second scenario is almost similar to what happened in the first scenario. Unless you have done KYC in both scenarios, the casino will probably process your withdrawal request immediately. But it depends on each casino because each casino has its own rules.
And even if you have managed to withdraw your money, the casino is still the winner because they managed to get more money from the losing gamblers.
The second scenario is almost similar to what happened in the first scenario. Unless you have done KYC in both scenarios, the casino will probably process your withdrawal request immediately. But it depends on each casino because each casino has its own rules.
And even if you have managed to withdraw your money, the casino is still the winner because they managed to get more money from the losing gamblers.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1565
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
<...>
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
You have a lot of confusion here. When we say that you can't beat the house, we are talking about the long term, and the two examples you give are short term. So no, you can't beat the house, and it doesn't care if you get lucky on the first play, cash out and don't come back because its business model is based on a lot of people betting, on big numbers, and not on what a player does on an individual play.
Hi gamblers, it's a simple question I want to ask...
Remember it is said that, in gambling, the house always wins, I Want us to look at this two scenarios and tell if this are not actually a way to win/beat the house..
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
in this statement I call it not beating the house, but giving in to being greedy within yourself.Remember it is said that, in gambling, the house always wins, I Want us to look at this two scenarios and tell if this are not actually a way to win/beat the house..
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
usually a gambler who is lucky to get a big win will never stop betting, he will continue to play thinking he will get even bigger wins and in the end he will lose and lose all of his winnings.
but if there is a gambler who manages to win big at gambling and is able to stop for a moment and withdraw all that winnings, I say he has succeeded in defeating greed within himself.
and I think if that's done successfully, the house is already after you when one day you return to the casino you will experience a losing streak and you will not be able to stop betting there to catch up with your losses.
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
Gambling is often not as lucky as you think, bro. So don't think big especially about winning big for just small bet or a few hundred dollars.Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
You can win it, but it's only very small possibility. I can imagine you could win tens of thousands of dollars if you place it on sports betting especially for multi bets with 8 to 10 match for $100. You will make big profit if all your selections win because the odds you have for those 10 selections are quite high, but imagine how much you will lose if you never win anything within 10 to 20 tries. That must be really bad, right?
If you win, you can leave the casino and never return regardless of whether you want to enjoy life or maybe invest in something else like opening business or something like that. But I guess only lucky people can win it because usually they are high budget gamblers.
No matter the amount you win gambling house, it can't be compared to the amount a gambling house makes in a day. A gambler does have the idea of winning a lot of money from gambling and stopping while at it. The stopping will be for that day and return the next day to continue betting. You know how it is in gambling, you will today and lose hugely tomorrow.
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
It is not easy to stop gambling completely when it has given enough money that you have used to start up a business. Human beings with greed will still find their way back to the casino someday to bet and win more. Remembering the fact that is gambling that gives him the money that he uses to start up his business. He will be forced to try his luck again, using the money gotten from his business indirectly to bet and win more, in the long run, he will be gradually losing to the gambling house. 
Quote
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
Theoretically this sounds like a way to "beat the house", but there are several things to keep in mind:
1.The player needs to be extremely lucky.
2.The player needs very good skills(when it comes to games like poker).
3.The casino must be legit and paying all winnings without any problems.
4.The player must have really good self-control, so that he will quit after withdrawing his winnings and never return back. Most people are greedy, they always want more and more. Winning big amount of money from a casino would incentivize the gambler to keep gambling on that casino(at some point he will lose everything).
5.What if the casino "bribes" the gambler with a generous bonus, so that the gambler starts betting again and loses his money?
Hi gamblers, it's a simple question I want to ask...
Remember it is said that, in gambling, the house always wins, I Want us to look at this two scenarios and tell if this are not actually a way to win/beat the house..
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
I already did the second, winning a big amount with a small bet, withdrawing it, and promised not to come back playing again investing it in Cryptocurrency, but a gambler is always a gambler, you have certain guilt for not giving yourself more opportunities because you already did it thinking that you beat the house, but when I got back in betting I have a long losing streak and I'm actually chasing losses, so I make it a point to allocate a small portion from then if I win its good and if I lose I'm ok with as long as I'm not chasing loses. Remember it is said that, in gambling, the house always wins, I Want us to look at this two scenarios and tell if this are not actually a way to win/beat the house..
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
Hi gamblers, it's a simple question I want to ask...
Remember it is said that, in gambling, the house always wins, I Want us to look at this two scenarios and tell if this are not actually a way to win/beat the house..
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
I rarely see gamblers like this when they win they will leave the game and make a business, what usually happens is they keep on playing until the winning money runs out again, because usually people never get away from greed, after all it's only 0.001% to be able to beat the house Remember it is said that, in gambling, the house always wins, I Want us to look at this two scenarios and tell if this are not actually a way to win/beat the house..
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1043
Little_Mouse Campaign Management | OrangeFren.com
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Yes you have beaten the casino in that way.On the other hand, you have beaten the casino, but for other gamblers, they aren't so it like you won money and then somebody lost that money so the casino is kinda equal on that.
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
Same answer as the first one.As long as you go away winning and never returned to gambling, obviously you can say that you beat the house on that. Unfortunately, only few people have this kind of mindset where they will go away and never return to gamble once they won a huge amount of money. Most of the gamblers? They always come back and want to win more money and because of that, they will lose more money instead of winning more money.
copper member
Activity: 2800
Merit: 1179
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
-snip-
Both your scenario is correct on beating the house. In general, Beating the house means you are in profit for your overall gambling portfolio regardless if you came back or not as long as you maintain the positive portfolio then you can safely assume you beat the house.
It’s very rare for a user even for beginner to have an early then never comeback because the adrenaline from excitement of winning will surely push him to play more to win more money. Your scenario will be good if all newbie that will experience early luck will never come back gambling again but of course casino will be on the tight spot.
Hi gamblers, it's a simple question I want to ask...
Remember it is said that, in gambling, the house always wins, I Want us to look at this two scenarios and tell if this are not actually a way to win/beat the house..
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
You are correct on your conclusion, if a person which has never gambled before makes a lot of money and then they can keep themselves away from gambling for the rest of their lives, it can be said they have beaten the casino.Remember it is said that, in gambling, the house always wins, I Want us to look at this two scenarios and tell if this are not actually a way to win/beat the house..
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
But it is obvious what the problem with this strategy is, and that is you are dependent on your luck, there is no way to know beforehand if you will be one of the few gamblers which can obtain those results immediately, so if you try to perform this strategy the most likely outcome is you will fail and lose money instead.
Hi gamblers, it's a simple question I want to ask...
Remember it is said that, in gambling, the house always wins, I Want us to look at this two scenarios and tell if this are not actually a way to win/beat the house..
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
Remember it is said that, in gambling, the house always wins, I Want us to look at this two scenarios and tell if this are not actually a way to win/beat the house..
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
Obviously it is, but you have to think that maybe you won against the house by thousands of dollars, but there are gamblers who may have lost thousands too and the accumulation could be worth millions, so it's not that you really won against them.
On the other hand, it's beginners luck, and most likely that gambler will fall to the same agendas as the rest of us.
Gamble the second day because he thinks he can still win more and then lose everything including his capital and then he turns into a addicted one.
Lol, Am gone through every comment and I must say that i enjoyed the the conversation so far,
To add, i personally know that the scenarios i mentioned is (though very possible to happen) unlikely, at least, I know a someone who won close to $7000 on his second day of gambling, he started the first day and gambled away $15, after about 2 weeks, he came back to the same casino, deposited $100 and started playing one of this pragmatic games, betting random amount on each round of the game, he got luck and won over 15 free rounds, through this rounds, he won several multipliers and that was how he's total winning amount to $6,879, that is a lot of money if converted to my countries currency, I advised him to withdraw that money and start a business with it, and forget about gambling, he did obey, started a business but later went into gambling again without me knowing, I only got to know that he went back to gambling when I saw that he's business wasn't doing well as it suppose, I tried inquiring from him what's going on, he later opened up to me that he lost over $2000 on sports betting some weeks back, and the loss is affecting his business.
This was how the idea of this thread came by.
Sorry to say this, but your friend was greedy and paid the price for his greediness... He should have been thankful for his lucky, that allowed him to collect an enough budget to start his own business. From that moment on, he just needed to focus on his business, like you advised him.To add, i personally know that the scenarios i mentioned is (though very possible to happen) unlikely, at least, I know a someone who won close to $7000 on his second day of gambling, he started the first day and gambled away $15, after about 2 weeks, he came back to the same casino, deposited $100 and started playing one of this pragmatic games, betting random amount on each round of the game, he got luck and won over 15 free rounds, through this rounds, he won several multipliers and that was how he's total winning amount to $6,879, that is a lot of money if converted to my countries currency, I advised him to withdraw that money and start a business with it, and forget about gambling, he did obey, started a business but later went into gambling again without me knowing, I only got to know that he went back to gambling when I saw that he's business wasn't doing well as it suppose, I tried inquiring from him what's going on, he later opened up to me that he lost over $2000 on sports betting some weeks back, and the loss is affecting his business.
This was how the idea of this thread came by.
However, businesses' profit come slower, so patience is required. Maybe he got excited about the previous winnings at the casino and compared to the income he was making through his business and decided to continue gambling for fast profits, what inevitably resulted in losses after a while.
Now let's hope he can get aware of his mistakes and save his business while there is still time (and money) left.
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
Both questions are similar, you won, quit and use the money to build business. In this case, you're one lucky gambler to win because majority of gamblers are losing than winning. However in reality, if a gambler win huge amount in a particular casino, it is hard already to refrain ourselves from playing again because we already experience to win (In this example it's a huge amount). So you are tempted to try your luck again until you won't notice that your winnings from the past are draining because of your desire to win, it's just a usual case. But probably some gamblers are able to quit after winning huge (so kudos to them).Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
Nevertheless, gamblers who have such mindset to completely stop after winning huge and leave the gambling world to have a fresh start are fortunate to control themselves and think of much better thing to do with their winnings.
With gambling you'll experience loss for sure. It can happen in the long run or at the beginning itself. With most of the gamblers they'll have early day luck. People who use it in the right way and makes an exit will enjoy it and some out of greed losses in the same day. Just because one have won and withdrawn the winning doesn't mean he have beaten the house.
Imagine yourself as a new gambler who just joined a casino, played a few dollars and with luck on your side, you win money running into thousands of dollars, will withdrawing your money plus winnings from that casino, never to return there to play again, mean you have beaten that casino?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
Secondly, imagine that on your first day of gambling, you gambled $200 and in the process, won money running into hundreds of thousands of dollars, you withdraw the money and start up your own business, and never returned to gambling again, isn't this one way to beat the house?
Seriously, why do you consider both scenarios as beating the house?
The scenarios you have mentioned are just one of the common approaches when somebody wins at the casino. Technically, winning profits at a casino doesn't mean you literally beat the house.
In other words, with that winnings, the house even favors you, and be thankful for that.
Now up to you if you will continue or not. Jump to: