Topic: Holy Grail BOUNTY - page 6. (Read 36337 times)

marcus_of_augustus, if you want someone with more free time on his hands to code it, you'll have to do it yourself or add to the bounty until you attract more programmers or until it pays enough to work on the project full time.
the only thing that's not going to help is bitching.

btw as you can see on github, I started coding (not related to your bitching though!).

... or you may have been the wrong guy for the job in the first place.

For status updates I've told the OT team that I would take a week long break, it has now gone on to 1.5 weeks because I got hired into a huge option that will fund my career and pays now, with the OT taskes I get paid when I'm finished and at the rate I can gather responses from the OT team (at the rate I can collect enough information to code more basically) -- they are hard at work its difficult to get a straight answer which is nothing new in the programming world so nobody skwak at them because of that reason.  I expect the delay to go on for the rest of the month based on my current rate of work over work load ratio at my recently more higher paying gig. The MC app will get finished but we are running at the most appropriate rate possible to get it done(as cyiam as put it clearly he knows best about these work/task related issues more then anyone i know if you ask me). The amount of Bitcoins the tasks have been assigned I feel are appropriate too, however if you want it done faster with the same quailty you have to pay more.
 It costs money/resources/energy/management/food/water to program you know.

<3 u're an example. This is the spirit! I'm with you.
People who can't understand this should stop criticism and what they can do for helping!

Transparency and information is always good, and his doing his job.

Now please stop spamming and going offtopic, cause this post is important and already big. People who come here already have many things to read, don't waste their/our time.

I work every day on CIYAM for *nothing* and have been doing so for years.

If others don't do this I don't blame them (you do need to pay bills in the real world) and the entire point of CIYAM Open is to create a place where developers can earn money for their contributions to open source projects that people want to support.

I would like to think that Jeff Garzik being hired (full time) by BitPay to develop Bitcoin has increased his productivity now that he can devote all his time to it.

I do hope that you understand that I do not get any benefit from hosting Moneychanger or Xenland's project on CIYAM Open (they are fee free forever).

I am more interested in helping interesting ideas and projects than making money.

So what ... you are saying now open source projects need funding or they will never happen? Sounds like you might be in the wrong game if open source has become about the money for you ... and besides there is over 6k available in total for this project, which you are probably well aware of, and it doesn't seem to have inspired anybody greatly anyway.

Interested to know what price would you have put on getting this done professionally (not some intern, learner , etc)?

Not sensitive - but realistic - if people don't contribute funds then how do they think that things will get done?

Things are happening but only at the rate that the funds that have been made available can make them happen.

Just observing, not complaining ... bit sensitive?

Sure - it may be frustrating to wait for tasks to be finished but are you willing to do something (other than complain)?

So your status update is ... you haven't done much of anything? Thnx for keeping us in the loop.

Looks like Xenland has stalled out also.

The entire focus of CIYAM Open is "tasks" so hopefully this matches what both the Project Manager and Contributor are wanting to achieve.

Also being a C++ programmer since the 90's I am happy to offer help (and already have done so) to parties working on this project (for CIYAM Open there is nothing better than a project that *succeeds* in its goals).

hey,

I'm one of the people working on the holy grail tasks.
Sorry, but so far I've not done much yet
I set up the dev environment and started playing around a bit but due to lots of real-life stuff and needing a holiday I haven't done much real work on it yet.
However I do have free time and skills, so don't worry, I just had some higher priority tasks to take care of first

Just wanted to give you a status update from my side, from what I saw Xenland is working hard on his tasks.

In my experience it is hard to find highly skilled developers who have some spare time. (For Bitcoin projects... My theory is that everybody is hiring so this completely depleted the pool of available devs.)

Usually developers want a concrete payout model like "do this, get 10 BTC", as it matches per-hour wage they are used to. I.e. they know what a hour of their time is worth, they estimate how long it takes to complete a task, and can thus know whether it is a good deal or not.

If you introduce a risk of non-payment (e.g. if two devs work do same job only one gets paid), you need to compensate for it by higher payoff.

Also you need to take into account developer psychology. It is a very complex topic, but the general idea is that developers are more likely to take small tasks which they are prepared for.

Also they care about awesomeness, good cause, prestige etc.

Say, if something takes 1 hour of time and involves only tech I know, I will take risk, and even accept discounted payment if it is cool and everything.

So I think prediction market might work if you break whole thing into small tasks.

But this is very problematic:

• very few developers know all required tech, and preparation takes a lot of time
• designing the solution takes time
• it is very hard to break the whole thing into smaller pieces, basically to do this you need to design the architecture in all details
• when people care only about completion of a certain task they are more likely to commit bad code, or do not take into account the big picture

We've been trying to develop colored coins using bounty model for 6 months or so, and it wasn't effective. I'm now using a different approach for BitContracts.org: we have a team, of sorts. While individual team members get bounties, the difference is that they work continuously on many tasks, so preparation is less of an issue (you prepare only once), they are interested in long-term success and so on.

I haven't tried it, but what might work is hackathon-style events. It is easier for a programmer psychologically: if it is possible to find, say, 24h to work on this project, programmer can just commit to work on it, and have no worries about distractions and such.

Also hackathon might be perceived as a fun time, risk is bounded, so programmers will be more likely to do this.

Also it would help a lot if people who have more experience or have better vision will be available through the event to give advice. It happens very often that programmer is stuck on what appears to be trivial, and availability of an expert can drastically speed up the development and reduce complexity.

I feel the same way. Once this gets dumbed down to my level there's all sorts of stuff I can't wait to try... Last time I got OT+Moneychanger to actually work was like a year ago, and I couldn't figure out much more than Baskets. I'll probably be most useful updating the wiki for other mere mortals.

Once the GUI is easy for everyone to use, do you folks think a prediction market might be a better model for these bounties? That would eliminate squatting, and also give participants a good projection for completion dates.

Good point - it is up to the Project Manager (so nothing that I am controlling) - if no-one completes the task within a reasonable time-frame then the Project Manager is free to "Reject" the bidder and get another one.

To be perfectly clear - "bounty squatting" is entirely under the control of the Project Manager.

When does "presumably under development" get changed to "likely bounty squatting" ?

The Pending status means that the tasks have been assigned and are presumably under development.

What's the status of Bitcoin integration/colored coin integration?

ciyam open says it is "Coding - Pending" for both, but I have no idea what it means.

If nobody started coding yet it probably makes sense to give these tasks to me / BitContracts.org team.

Since we already started implementing colored coin library in C++, it should work nicely with this project.