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Topic: Honestly, which is better? Monero or Dash? - page 7. (Read 35954 times)

legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
So if Evan or the decentralized budget, issued a bounty for third parties to break InstantX, would you break it or would you say "oh, but we don't have the X million dollars required to buy the necessary amount of masternodes that are necessary for our attack to work"?

Don't Evan and Otoh own enough of the network for this type of attack? Don't authorities (if they noticed this little sham) have the means to induce Evan and Otoh to spy on or break dash? My guess is it could be done less dramatically, but in a world where you are claiming to replace national currency and do it anonymously, this would be the easiest attack by those in power: KISS
full member
Activity: 524
Merit: 100
Care to answer my question posted above, or are you running away?


Here's the death blow. You can skim around those posts for more details.


Which is exactly what I wrote it must do, and exactly what I wrote when I surmised that your white paper was implying the highly jammable design of 10-of-10.

But as I pointed out in the correct math (which is clear you still haven't grasped), even 6-of-10 can be jammed 62% of the time (and multiply spent the other 38% of the time) given a 50% attack on the masternodes (i.e. the 50% attack on masternodes can attack 100% of the InstantX transactions).

Attack 50% of the masternodes, huh?  Pray tell, how is anybody going to accomplish that feat?
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
So if Evan or the decentralized budget, issued a bounty for third parties to break InstantX, would you break it or would you say "oh, but we don't have the X million dollars required to buy the necessary amount of masternodes that are necessary for our attack to work"?
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
full member
Activity: 524
Merit: 100

Here's the death blow. You can skim around those posts for more details.


Which is exactly what I wrote it must do, and exactly what I wrote when I surmised that your white paper was implying the highly jammable design of 10-of-10.

But as I pointed out in the correct math (which is clear you still haven't grasped), even 6-of-10 can be jammed 62% of the time (and multiply spent the other 38% of the time) given a 50% attack on the masternodes (i.e. the 50% attack on masternodes can attack 100% of the InstantX transactions).

Attack 50% of the masternodes, huh?  Pray tell, how is anybody going to accomplish that feat?
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
...
All of which are horrible features, especially the illegal Masternodes, the broken math of the InstantX,
...

Can you please expand on the broken math of InstantX? It's hard to find any documentation on how it works.

This was already documented upthread and it referenced a discussion in my vaporcoin's thread, wherein I explained that the probability calculation in the InstantX white paper was egregiously incorrect. I provided the correct calculation. Evan replied in my thread, didn't deny my point, and claimed that he had forgotten or had not the time to make the correction. Many smart people have seen that post and so my assertion is correct.

Some of us also discussed the ramifications and concluded that Dash devolves to PoS security, not PoW.

Unfortunately I can't go digging in my archives to provide quotes and urls to the exact content every time someone doesn't locate what was written upthread. I would never be able to get any other work done if all I did was repeat prior arguments.

Unfortunately seems no one has the time to collect and organize all these analyses and arguments into a condensed table to make it easier for readers to compare and do due diligence. The community might consider paying me to do it, if no one else is willing to. Then again, I am trying to focus on my energy on coding from here forward. So I'd prefer to not do that work.
full member
Activity: 178
Merit: 100
...
All of which are horrible features, especially the illegal Masternodes, the broken math of the InstantX,
...

Can you please expand on the broken math of InstantX? It's hard to find any documentation on how it works.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
But I still think you should stop throwing your toys out the pram and start doing something useful  Wink

On that point sir, you are entirely correct.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188

Rebuttal:

Rebuttal accepted.

But I still think you should stop throwing your toys out the pram and start doing something useful  Wink
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
...

All of which are horrible features, especially the illegal Masternodes, the broken math of the InstantX, and the illegal unregistered securities of DGB.

And when did he announce and deliver any USERSHIP.

These are just divagations to take money from speculators.

Edit: originally I was contented to no comment negatively on Dash (and this was before I knew about the fraud) and I figured to each his own. But when I see so many clueless speculators who can't assimilate all the necessary due diligence information, then we have a problem with illegal unregistered investment securities.

There is a significant regulatory risk with Dash especially with Masternodes voting on how to spend the newly created coins, and confirming transactions. My take is that the lead agency in the United States here would be FinCEN rather than the SEC. The critical question in my mind is are DASH Masternodes MSBs? The other thing to keep in mind here is that there are approximately four times as many banks and credit unions in the United States as there are Dash Masternodes, so by that measure alone the US banking system is more decentralized than Dash. The capital requirements to set up a Dash masternode 1000 Dash is a much higher proportion of the Dash M0 money supply than 40,000,000 USD (The amount of capital needed to set up a bank in the United States) is of the USD M0 Money supply.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
Lighten up and stop throwing your toys out the pram.

Lots of things work. The future belongs to engineering pragmatists who see solutions and manage to find ways to mitigate adversity. Not scientific dogmatists dependent on the comfort of theoretical completeness.

Rebuttal:

These are just divagations to take money from speculators.

Edit: originally I was contented to not comment negatively on Dash (and this was before I knew about the alleged fraud) and I figured to each his own. Even after I first became aware of the fraud allegations, I didn't not feel compelled to speak out strongly. But when I see so many clueless speculators who can't assimilate all the necessary due diligence information, then we have a problem with illegal unregistered investment securities.

Because as AnonyMint I didn't speak out against Dash, Evan at al were able to profit a lot. They should have taken that profit and stopped. Because now they've gone too far and I feel compelled to speak out against the nonsense of Dash. It doesn't reflect well on our community to be supporting illegal activity and inferior designs. It makes us appear to be lunatics.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188

It is the math of attack vectors which thus converts Dash into a PoS(hit) coin

In any case, Dash has shown their technology is always half-assed

On top of all that, Dash has NO USERSHIP and NO ACTUAL MARKETS

Lighten up and stop throwing your toys out the pram.

Lots of things work. The future belongs to engineering pragmatists who see solutions and manage to find ways to mitigate adversity. Not scientific dogmatists dependent on the comfort of theoretical completeness.


legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Announced masternode blinding - not delivered.
Announced on chain anon (ring sigs) - not delivered.

Those are two off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are others.

Regarding the bolded part, Q1, early Q2 of 2014, the situation with darksend was pretty basic. 10 DRKs inputs in threes, mixing while sending (and having to wait).

The "V2" / second version would be a huge upgrade. Now for V2 there were 2 options of ring sigs and premixing+multiple rounds+multiple denominations (not only 10 DRKs). V2 delivered a radical upgrade through the second way.

I said quite clearly that  there isn't anything wrong with changing direction. But it is clear that Evan stating he's going to do X does not mean that what will eventually be delivered actually does X, or even will be delivered at all in every case, as Microchip had suggested with his incomplete list of promised features that included only the ones that happened to be delivered.

The relevance, clearly, to Evolution, is that evolution is quite likely to, "evolve". It can only be properly evaluated once delivered.

Quote
*One could argue that there is TOR compatibility.

There is not Tor compatibility with masternodes. They must have a public IP. If you even try to access that IP via Tor (I don't know if there is support for this in the Wallet) you are susceptible to malicious exit nodes. Not recommended (at least not without a very careful review of the protocol to establish what vulnerabilities are introduced). Allowing masternodes to publish an .onion address instead of or in addition to a public IP would fix this, but would perhaps create other issues and I don't see it happening any time soon in any case, as development seems to be focused elsewhere (again stated without any suggestion that this is a bad thing).
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
Announced DarkSend - Delivered DarkSend
Announced opensourcing DarkSend - opensourced DarkSend
Announced Masternode functionality - delivered Masternode functionality
Announced instantly confirmed transactions - delivered InstantX
Announced Decentralized Governance by blockchain - Delivered DGBB

All of which are horrible features, especially the illegal Masternodes, the broken math of the InstantX, and the illegal unregistered securities of DGB.

And when did he announce and deliver any USERSHIP.

These are just divagations to take money from speculators.

Edit: originally I was contented to not comment negatively on Dash (and this was before I knew about the alleged fraud) and I figured to each his own. Even after I first became aware of the fraud allegations, I didn't not feel compelled to speak out strongly. But when I see so many clueless speculators who can't assimilate all the necessary due diligence information, then we have a problem with illegal unregistered investment securities.

Because as AnonyMint I didn't speak out against Dash, Evan at al were able to profit a lot. They should have taken that profit and stopped. Because now they've gone too far and I feel compelled to speak out against the nonsense of Dash. It doesn't reflect well on our community to be supporting illegal activity and inferior designs. It makes us appear to be lunatics.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
Announced masternode blinding - not delivered.
Announced on chain anon (ring sigs) - not delivered.

Those are two off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are others.

Regarding the bolded part, Q1, early Q2 of 2014, the situation with darksend was pretty basic. 10 DRKs inputs in threes, mixing while sending (and having to wait).

The "V2" / second version would be a huge upgrade. Now for V2 there were 2 options of ring sigs and premixing+multiple rounds+multiple denominations (not only 10 DRKs). V2 delivered a radical upgrade through the second way.

What was promised but has not yet been delivered: ip obfuscation* (there was talk about i2p in the masternode network IIRC) and more recently masternode blinding. IIRC masternode blinding coincided with some other wallet app and it would have to be rewritten or something - so the spec was kept stable.

*One could argue that there is TOR compatibility.
full member
Activity: 178
Merit: 100
The source code for instantx is part of github.com/dashpay/dash. There is no separate module for it.
Thanks
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
with the one innovation of a currently closed source instantX feature?

Sorry, you just disqualified yourself from any further discussion due to massive willful ignorance.
"Closed source" Epic LOL.

*ignored*
Open source aye? There are 6 mentions of InstantX in the whitepaper:

https://github.com/dashpay/dash/wiki/Whitepaper
Quote
An extensive overview of this feature can be found in the InstantX white paper[9].
*9 https://www.dash.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/InstantTX.pdf

How many times does the word 'instantx' appear in this extensive overview?

0 results

If you hadn't been so quick to ignore me, I would have liked to have known where exactly I can find the source code?

The source code for instantx is part of github.com/dashpay/dash. There is no separate module for it.

full member
Activity: 178
Merit: 100
with the one innovation of a currently closed source instantX feature?

Sorry, you just disqualified yourself from any further discussion due to massive willful ignorance.
"Closed source" Epic LOL.

*ignored*
Open source aye? There are 6 mentions of InstantX in the whitepaper:

https://github.com/dashpay/dash/wiki/Whitepaper
Quote
An extensive overview of this feature can be found in the InstantX white paper[9].
*9 https://www.dash.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/InstantTX.pdf

How many times does the word 'instantx' appear in this extensive overview?

0 results

If you hadn't been so quick to ignore me, I would have liked to have known where exactly I can find the source code?
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