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Topic: How can developers make a decent return for their work in crypto currency (Read 2432 times)

legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
Much better than making yet more new coins is pick some old one that is insanely low difficulty such as Fairbrix or CoiledCoin or GeistGeld or whatever others that aren't sprining to my mind right now, mine them quietly for however long it takes you to build up a nest-egg you think will be a decent wage once you have brought the coin up to date and back into the limelight, then instead of cloning a more-recent code version to some new name, simply clone whichever of these old coins you have racked up a nest-egg in.

It is surely no harder, and probably much easier, to cut and paste something to make a newer more up to date version of one of these than to cut and paste to make some previously unheard-of coin.

For example i0coin and geistgeld both are crappier code than groupcoin, but are basically identical to groupcoin except for port, name, IRC channel and so on, all the things the cut and paste kiddies cut and paste to make a previously unheard of coin that they would have to pre-mine to equip themselves with a nest-egg of.

Plus all these old coins come equipped with lots and lots of holders who will be eager to jump aboard a newer client that doesn't crash daily (i0coin) nor eat massive amounts of RAM (i0coin, geistgeld) nor use some weird config file and data directory setup (fairbrix). Just like BBQcoin's old time users jumped aboard and brought it back into the limelight, the same can easily happen with other long-established coins that have gone through a long phase of allowing even the smallest miners to easily mine them. (Has anyone helped the small miner more than BBQcoin did? Other than bitcoin itself back in the day?)

(Fairbrix you'd take the newest litecoin, maybe wait for a new one to come out first even, and cut and paste from that.)

Heck, i0coin used to be on bitparking's mmpool, my acount there still has my wallet address for it, clone a client for it from groupcoin and very likely it'll go back onto bitparking, and heck maybe their exchange for it is still sitting waiting for its comeback too..

-MarkM-



The problem is the A sic issue, most of us are gpu miners. So most would go for scrypt.  

Then you don't get it I think.

1) Pick up shitloads of the coin really easy because all the big farms consider it beneath their notice.

2) Bring it back into the limielight.

3) Whether its all the massive GPU farms or all the massive botnets or all the massive ASIC farms that jump on it you don't care, you ALREADY GOT YOURS.

TL;DR by the time the ASIC owners jump on it they'll merely be making your stash more valuable. The plan is not to mine it once other people do, the plan is to mine it now while almost no one else is, then only once you have your stash of it do you bring it to the limelight for others to jump all over it due to the new client you put out for it or whatever.

Personally i have been content so far to wait for the merged mining patches to be applied to an up to date bitcoin rather than bother hacking groupcoin to make fixed i0coin and geistgeld simply because the longer that takes the larger a stash i will have when it happens. as long as difficulty is low there is no hurry, in fact the longer it takes the larger the stashes the people mining at the super-low difficulty will have come the time for payday, and maybe also the more actual individual people it will be that will have benefited from all of this by getting in there while the difficulty IS low.

(Basically this is huge opportunity for small miners, because they might have a long long time yet of being able to mine at insanely low difficulty before the big farms jump in and oust them, by which time they will already have their stash and be looking forward to being ousted aka to payday. As I have mentioned before, BBQcoin already showed this in action. It is awesome for the small miners who take advantage of the large miner blindness-to-low-difficulty-chains-not-on-exchanges by getting in there and mining before presence on exchanges causes the big miners' scripts to notice "holy cow that is insane profit I need to rape that"...)

As a small miner what you need are chains that are insanely low difficulty and not on exchanges, because if a coin is not dropped by exchanges when it is low difficulty the scripts looking for most profitable coin will notice and have the big farms jump all over it, driving the difficulty way up until it is not profitable then abandoning it. And not newly launched, because even the most shitty crapcoins of all get jumped on at launch still despite or maybe mostly because everyone knows they are pump and dumps so they all need to pump fast to dump fast.

-MarkM-
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
Much better than making yet more new coins is pick some old one that is insanely low difficulty such as Fairbrix or CoiledCoin or GeistGeld or whatever others that aren't sprining to my mind right now, mine them quietly for however long it takes you to build up a nest-egg you think will be a decent wage once you have brought the coin up to date and back into the limelight, then instead of cloning a more-recent code version to some new name, simply clone whichever of these old coins you have racked up a nest-egg in.

It is surely no harder, and probably much easier, to cut and paste something to make a newer more up to date version of one of these than to cut and paste to make some previously unheard-of coin.

For example i0coin and geistgeld both are crappier code than groupcoin, but are basically identical to groupcoin except for port, name, IRC channel and so on, all the things the cut and paste kiddies cut and paste to make a previously unheard of coin that they would have to pre-mine to equip themselves with a nest-egg of.

Plus all these old coins come equipped with lots and lots of holders who will be eager to jump aboard a newer client that doesn't crash daily (i0coin) nor eat massive amounts of RAM (i0coin, geistgeld) nor use some weird config file and data directory setup (fairbrix). Just like BBQcoin's old time users jumped aboard and brought it back into the limelight, the same can easily happen with other long-established coins that have gone through a long phase of allowing even the smallest miners to easily mine them. (Has anyone helped the small miner more than BBQcoin did? Other than bitcoin itself back in the day?)

(Fairbrix you'd take the newest litecoin, maybe wait for a new one to come out first even, and cut and paste from that.)

Heck, i0coin used to be on bitparking's mmpool, my acount there still has my wallet address for it, clone a client for it from groupcoin and very likely it'll go back onto bitparking, and heck maybe their exchange for it is still sitting waiting for its comeback too..

-MarkM-



The problem is the A sic issue, most of us are gpu miners. So most would go for scrypt. 
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
Much better than making yet more new coins is pick some old one that is insanely low difficulty such as Fairbrix or CoiledCoin or GeistGeld or whatever others that aren't sprining to my mind right now, mine them quietly for however long it takes you to build up a nest-egg you think will be a decent wage once you have brought the coin up to date and back into the limelight, then instead of cloning a more-recent code version to some new name, simply clone whichever of these old coins you have racked up a nest-egg in.

It is surely no harder, and probably much easier, to cut and paste something to make a newer more up to date version of one of these than to cut and paste to make some previously unheard-of coin.


For those not planning to (or not able to) add any new features, this is a fine idea. 

You can add new features too. First just update the client get it on exchanges to raise cash to pay for adding more nifty stuff to it...

-MarkM-
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1030
Much better than making yet more new coins is pick some old one that is insanely low difficulty such as Fairbrix or CoiledCoin or GeistGeld or whatever others that aren't sprining to my mind right now, mine them quietly for however long it takes you to build up a nest-egg you think will be a decent wage once you have brought the coin up to date and back into the limelight, then instead of cloning a more-recent code version to some new name, simply clone whichever of these old coins you have racked up a nest-egg in.

It is surely no harder, and probably much easier, to cut and paste something to make a newer more up to date version of one of these than to cut and paste to make some previously unheard-of coin.


For those not planning to (or not able to) add any new features, this is a fine idea. 
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
Much better than making yet more new coins is pick some old one that is insanely low difficulty such as Fairbrix or CoiledCoin or GeistGeld or whatever others that aren't sprining to my mind right now, mine them quietly for however long it takes you to build up a nest-egg you think will be a decent wage once you have brought the coin up to date and back into the limelight, then instead of cloning a more-recent code version to some new name, simply clone whichever of these old coins you have racked up a nest-egg in.

It is surely no harder, and probably much easier, to cut and paste something to make a newer more up to date version of one of these than to cut and paste to make some previously unheard-of coin.

For example i0coin and geistgeld both are crappier code than groupcoin, but are basically identical to groupcoin except for port, name, IRC channel and so on, all the things the cut and paste kiddies cut and paste to make a previously unheard of coin that they would have to pre-mine to equip themselves with a nest-egg of.

Plus all these old coins come equipped with lots and lots of holders who will be eager to jump aboard a newer client that doesn't crash daily (i0coin) nor eat massive amounts of RAM (i0coin, geistgeld) nor use some weird config file and data directory setup (fairbrix). Just like BBQcoin's old time users jumped aboard and brought it back into the limelight, the same can easily happen with other long-established coins that have gone through a long phase of allowing even the smallest miners to easily mine them. (Has anyone helped the small miner more than BBQcoin did? Other than bitcoin itself back in the day?)

(Fairbrix you'd take the newest litecoin, maybe wait for a new one to come out first even, and cut and paste from that.)

Heck, i0coin used to be on bitparking's mmpool, my acount there still has my wallet address for it, clone a client for it from groupcoin and very likely it'll go back onto bitparking, and heck maybe their exchange for it is still sitting waiting for its comeback too..

-MarkM-
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Perhaps we are stating from the wrong assumption.  Doesn't a software developer make money from selling or licensing their software? If your coin is so much better than the free alternatives, charge $ for the software. Then you will get paid for developing software. If it's not better than free alternatives and no-one buys your software then at least you know.

The problem is that BTC set a precedent that the software would be free, and in reality it's the "best" coin out there. Trying to charge for something that has a better free alternative will always be very difficult.  People will surely ask "why should I give you money when I can use a different coin and not pay anyone".

I would suggest if you can't sell the coin do a pre-mine and dump when the value is acceptable to as a payment for your work. New coins need marketing people more than developers. The question should be how can I make money from marketing my coin.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
You don't have to open source, it is BSD license.

RUC for example the only code I have been able to find is way the heck out of date, they have not been releasing code for a long long time as far as I know.

Which of course means they are not decentralised, they are centralised; no one else can keep the bugfixes etc coming if they choose not to, nor even check what they are really doing under the hood.

But its legal, and every once in a while rumours are briefly encountered indicating some idiot(s) somewhere actually use it.

-MarkM-
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1030
Right now the rewards are just slanted way too much to the miners and not enough to the developers.

You're right about this - coin creators way overestimate the importance of miners, and GPU miners in particular. Creating a coin for the benefit of miners is like creating a university with the purpose of employing janitors. Janitors are necessary, and you want to create a good situation for them, but they are there to serve the University, not the other way around.

Ideally you want a wide distribution of low intensity miners, not a small number of high intenisty GPU farms.


And pre-mine is just way too much guesswork.  You could pre-mine way too much, or not nearly enough. 

Pre-mining is generally a bad idea. You've got to open source your code . . so another developer can just remove the pre-mine, relaunch the coin, and immediately have a superior coin that includes all of your innovations, but without your pre-mine.

I don't think you can just hard code 10 addresses though for the developers.  You would need to change those addresses over time to protect the private keys.  Maybe we can come up with some other mechanism for making this happen, but something needs to happen, otherwise we are just going to be left with a bunch of worthless abandoned coins.

Yes - and, seriously, I think I have this problem solved. Check out my previous post.


full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
Is this a hypothetical, or a feature you omitted from mentioning in the description of your Noirbits currency?

No such thing in Noirbits source... It used to be a foocoin clone, but I've started working on it, and am planning to implement some features.

Also, to be honest, what development work is there on Noirbits besides changing some Litecoin parameters? I feel like I'm the only one not drinking the clonecoin kool-aid around here.

Well, my work. Have a look @ the commit diffs for Noirbits, you'll see there's work involved, mostly on difficulty and hashrate calculations. Nothing too fancy for the time being, but as I said above, I'm gonna push in new features once I get more comfortable with the source.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Nonsense, I will simply make myself a few super blocks and hard code my addy for 1%  and then be the workhorse for my coin until its popular, I developed it, I worked it so i gets to eat!! Problem? Make your own damn  coin and support it.

I did a free one and I'm happy with it, now I wanna get  paid.
"Now launching: PayMeCoin! This is the coin to use if you want me to take a cut out of your money!"
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
Nonsense, I will simply make myself a few super blocks and hard code my addy for 1%  and then be the workhorse for my coin until its popular, I developed it, I worked it so i gets to eat!! Problem? Make your own damn  coin and support it.

I did a free one and I'm happy with it, now I wanna get  paid.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
And, we'll fall back to the ussual, Bitcoin, which everyone loves so much, was pre mined to shit

Except that it wasn't.  Other than that you are spot on.
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1054
CPU Web Mining 🕸️ on webmining.io
And I'm sorry, which coin did you create?

UKB, CDN, MBC, GMC, GRF, UNS, NKL (see http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html) and did some of the coding and prototype-trying for Unthinkingbit's DeVCoin.

-MarkM-


I knew I liked this guy for a reason

Stop acting like you understood a fucking word he said, fucking carpet cleaning retard

It's ok. You're just mad that I'm getting rich while you sit on your fat ass. I'm used to jealousy, but you take it to a whole new level

I'm a electronics / communications tech in the military, and, I've already posted pictures of myself. Lets see a picture of you, there, "winner"

Yea, I'm going to post a picture of myself proving how tough I am to a literal nobody who means absolutely nothing to me lol. Since you want to talk all this shit, you would think that maybe you would take the time to realize we are a veteran owned business. Take that how you want to

Yeah, I know how that works, you got a paper cut on duty, now the government gives you tons of tax payers money, to keep your business afloat. I guess you really are getting rich Roll Eyes

If only you realized how stupid you are making yourself look...I think I'm finally learning what it feels like to have actual pity for someone. Like...you don't even make me mad. I just feel sorry for you...
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
My issue is the lack of formality from these clonecoins.  For instance, when Digicoin was released and we asked Baritus why 5 confirmations was enough and his only answer was "because of my tests".  And then he supposedly was working on a paper to publish the details as to why. It's in the first page of posts of the digicoin release thread if you want to check it for yourself.  But guess what, no paper has yet to be released.  Baritus is also the same developer who was blatantly mining other coins by contract during the first days of digicoin's release, when arguably 'his' coin is most vulnerable and would thus benefit from additional trusted nodes/miners.

Another issue is the anonymity of devs.  We can see who Gavin, Wtogami, Garzik, and other people are.  They're not just a string of characters or an avatar in a forum.  It's all about accountability.  These ghost-clonecoin-devs premine and claim it's for development and yet we all know we can't do a damn thing when the dev disappears.  This is part of the frustration when we see a coin has been premined.

You won't be able to satisfy everyone regarding the premine vs no-premine debate.  But you want to lessen the backlash of a 1% premine or block subsidy to the devs?  Then don't just be a forum avatar.  Post a CV and resume.  Post your Linkedin/Facebook/Google+ page.  Post a public portfolio.  Dare to post a (legit) phone number on the coin's website.  Dare to show us you are not afraid to be held accountable.

I had my google+ page as a signature but removed it because I got too many people pm'ing me.  But when I release my project to the public later this summer, I won't just be a forum avatar.  You'll be able to knock on my door ask me a question...

-Merc




That is quite possibly, the stupidest idea, I've ever heard. I have been threatened, more than once, by fucking freaks on these forums. Sure, no problem, I'll give them my phone number and home address, so some teenage fag, full of angst, can call me, or show up on my families door step.

I didn't say your number.  I said 'a' number...

But it's exactly your unprofessional reaction that shows your true colors.

I've been around these forums long enough to know the reputation of many users.  So I know you're not liked.  You reap what you sow.  You can't or aren't willing to prove you can be accountable, then why the fuck am I talking to you?  Why should anyone give a flying fuck?
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
fml
And I'm sorry, which coin did you create?

UKB, CDN, MBC, GMC, GRF, UNS, NKL (see http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html) and did some of the coding and prototype-trying for Unthinkingbit's DeVCoin.

-MarkM-


I knew I liked this guy for a reason

Stop acting like you understood a fucking word he said, fucking carpet cleaning retard

It's ok. You're just mad that I'm getting rich while you sit on your fat ass. I'm used to jealousy, but you take it to a whole new level

I'm a electronics / communications tech in the military, and, I've already posted pictures of myself. Lets see a picture of you, there, "winner"

Yea, I'm going to post a picture of myself proving how tough I am to a literal nobody who means absolutely nothing to me lol. Since you want to talk all this shit, you would think that maybe you would take the time to realize we are a veteran owned business. Take that how you want to

Yeah, I know how that works, you got a paper cut on duty, now the government gives you tons of tax payers money, to keep your business afloat. I guess you really are getting rich Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1054
CPU Web Mining 🕸️ on webmining.io
And I'm sorry, which coin did you create?

UKB, CDN, MBC, GMC, GRF, UNS, NKL (see http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html) and did some of the coding and prototype-trying for Unthinkingbit's DeVCoin.

-MarkM-


I knew I liked this guy for a reason

Stop acting like you understood a fucking word he said, fucking carpet cleaning retard

It's ok. You're just mad that I'm getting rich while you sit on your fat ass. I'm used to jealousy, but you take it to a whole new level

I'm a electronics / communications tech in the military, and, I've already posted pictures of myself. Lets see a picture of you, there, "winner"

Yea, I'm going to post a picture of myself proving how tough I am to a literal nobody who means absolutely nothing to me lol. Since you want to talk all this shit, you would think that maybe you would take the time to realize we are a veteran owned business. Take that how you want to. Real men don't need to act tough on a website. I thought you would have learned that by now

Keep releasing your shitcoins and making your $20 here $20 there. I'll continue to make a significant income in the industry you seem to think is nothing but dirty old men
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
fml
My issue is the lack of formality from these clonecoins.  For instance, when Digicoin was released and we asked Baritus why 5 confirmations was enough and his only answer was "because of my tests".  And then he supposedly was working on a paper to publish the details as to why. It's in the first page of posts of the digicoin release thread if you want to check it for yourself.  But guess what, no paper has yet to be released.  Baritus is also the same developer who was blatantly mining other coins by contract during the first days of digicoin's release, when arguably 'his' coin is most vulnerable and would thus benefit from additional trusted nodes/miners.

Another issue is the anonymity of devs.  We can see who Gavin, Wtogami, Garzik, and other people are.  They're not just a string of characters or an avatar in a forum.  It's all about accountability.  These ghost-clonecoin-devs premine and claim it's for development and yet we all know we can't do a damn thing when the dev disappears.  This is part of the frustration when we see a coin has been premined.

You won't be able to satisfy everyone regarding the premine vs no-premine debate.  But you want to lessen the backlash of a 1% premine or block subsidy to the devs?  Then don't just be a forum avatar.  Post a CV and resume.  Post your Linkedin/Facebook/Google+ page.  Post a public portfolio.  Dare to post a (legit) phone number on the coin's website.  Dare to show us you are not afraid to be held accountable.

I had my google+ page as a signature but removed it because I got too many people pm'ing me.  But when I release my project to the public later this summer, I won't just be a forum avatar.  You'll be able to knock on my door ask me a question...

-Merc




That is quite possibly, the stupidest idea, I've ever heard. I have been threatened, more than once, by fucking freaks on these forums. Sure, no problem, I'll give them my phone number and home address, so some teenage fag, full of angst, can call me, or show up on my families door step.

Careful guys, we've got an internet tough guy. In before you post more pictures showing how tough you are. I really hope your family doesn't realize what an ignorant asshole you are. I would be embarrassed

WTF are you talking about? I don't threaten people on the internet, idiot Roll Eyes

You lost all credibility around here, when you made that Emo, attention seeking post of yours
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
fml
And I'm sorry, which coin did you create?

UKB, CDN, MBC, GMC, GRF, UNS, NKL (see http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html) and did some of the coding and prototype-trying for Unthinkingbit's DeVCoin.

-MarkM-


I knew I liked this guy for a reason

Stop acting like you understood a fucking word he said, fucking carpet cleaning retard

It's ok. You're just mad that I'm getting rich while you sit on your fat ass. I'm used to jealousy, but you take it to a whole new level

I'm a electronics / communications tech in the military, and, I've already posted pictures of myself. Lets see a picture of you, there, "winner"
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1054
CPU Web Mining 🕸️ on webmining.io
My issue is the lack of formality from these clonecoins.  For instance, when Digicoin was released and we asked Baritus why 5 confirmations was enough and his only answer was "because of my tests".  And then he supposedly was working on a paper to publish the details as to why. It's in the first page of posts of the digicoin release thread if you want to check it for yourself.  But guess what, no paper has yet to be released.  Baritus is also the same developer who was blatantly mining other coins by contract during the first days of digicoin's release, when arguably 'his' coin is most vulnerable and would thus benefit from additional trusted nodes/miners.

Another issue is the anonymity of devs.  We can see who Gavin, Wtogami, Garzik, and other people are.  They're not just a string of characters or an avatar in a forum.  It's all about accountability.  These ghost-clonecoin-devs premine and claim it's for development and yet we all know we can't do a damn thing when the dev disappears.  This is part of the frustration when we see a coin has been premined.

You won't be able to satisfy everyone regarding the premine vs no-premine debate.  But you want to lessen the backlash of a 1% premine or block subsidy to the devs?  Then don't just be a forum avatar.  Post a CV and resume.  Post your Linkedin/Facebook/Google+ page.  Post a public portfolio.  Dare to post a (legit) phone number on the coin's website.  Dare to show us you are not afraid to be held accountable.

I had my google+ page as a signature but removed it because I got too many people pm'ing me.  But when I release my project to the public later this summer, I won't just be a forum avatar.  You'll be able to knock on my door ask me a question...

-Merc




That is quite possibly, the stupidest idea, I've ever heard. I have been threatened, more than once, by fucking freaks on these forums. Sure, no problem, I'll give them my phone number and home address, so some teenage fag, full of angst, can call me, or show up on my families door step.

Careful guys, we've got an internet tough guy. In before you post more pictures showing how tough you are. I really hope your family doesn't realize what an ignorant asshole you are. I would be embarrassed
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1054
CPU Web Mining 🕸️ on webmining.io
And I'm sorry, which coin did you create?

UKB, CDN, MBC, GMC, GRF, UNS, NKL (see http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html) and did some of the coding and prototype-trying for Unthinkingbit's DeVCoin.

-MarkM-


I knew I liked this guy for a reason

Stop acting like you understood a fucking word he said, fucking carpet cleaning retard

It's ok. You're just mad that I'm getting rich while you sit on your fat ass. I'm used to jealousy, but you take it to a whole new level
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