How do we prevent money laundering and assasinations? - page 3.

BitterTea

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Quote from: sortedmush on April 27, 2011, 08:20:39 PM

Quote from: Ulysses on April 25, 2011, 01:22:34 PM

I recommend to read the original Jim Bell's essay: http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/jimbellap.htm

As he shows, assassination market will make wars impossible (because any government official, who wants to wage a war, will get a bounty for his head). And it will probably make impossible to exist for government, that extort taxes from it's subjects by force (because they will get a bounty for their heads too). Only governments, that provide their services on voluntary contracts will be able to evade such system.

This was a fascinating read. Thanks for the link.

This one is good as well.

I like his ideas on how such a service might establish trust with its userbase. I'm thinking about working on a service similar to this.

Quote

To establish itself as an authentic operation, AP [assassination politics] might be introduced not as a full fledged death machine but instead as a low key betting pool system whereby users could put money on sporting events or guess the day certain celebrities will get divorced, and other trivial wagers. The selling point is the hardcore anonyminity feature for users in harsher nanny states. In this relatively low risk phase, winners could have the option of being publicly announced for ego’s sake, and this would prove the system operated as intended. Then gradually more and more sinister bets would be allowed until it becomes completely un-moderated and AP is born.

sortedmush

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Quote from: Ulysses on April 25, 2011, 01:22:34 PM

I recommend to read the original Jim Bell's essay: http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/jimbellap.htm

As he shows, assassination market will make wars impossible (because any government official, who wants to wage a war, will get a bounty for his head). And it will probably make impossible to exist for government, that extort taxes from it's subjects by force (because they will get a bounty for their heads too). Only governments, that provide their services on voluntary contracts will be able to evade such system.

This was a fascinating read. Thanks for the link.

FreeMoney

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Strength in numbers

Quote from: TiagoTiago on April 27, 2011, 07:56:08 PM

I can think of several circunstances where both activities could still exist without the presence of totalitarian states...

Need some kind of state though. Doesn't assassination mean killing public official? And isn't money laundering just transfer designed to get around laws?

TiagoTiago

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Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)

I can think of several circunstances where both activities could still exist without the presence of totalitarian states...

error

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You prevent both money laundering and assassinations by not having a totalitarian police state. Bitcoin is irrelevant.

MoonShadow

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Quote from: TiagoTiago on April 27, 2011, 12:06:49 AM

But most people still let the client go with the default, which is relying on IRC unless it's down, right?

Down or not, the client will attempt to connect to it's internal list to fill out it's connections. It doesn't depend on any one source for data, so such an attempt to prevent new clients from bootstrapping the blockchain would be short lived. Clients that have already bootstrapped remember their past connections anyway.

TiagoTiago

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Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)

But most people still let the client go with the default, which is relying on IRC unless it's down, right?

MoonShadow

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Quote from: TiagoTiago on April 26, 2011, 11:33:03 PM

Could they secretly force Freenode to silently mute anyone joining the channel except the govt's bots that will report the addresses of honeypots to cripple the network by keeping most people making useless connections and at the same time buil.d a database of who is trying to use Bitcoin?

Not for long, and not likely to any useful degree even in the short term. The current client no longer requires the IRC channel even for initial bootstrapping. I don't even let my client connect.

TiagoTiago

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Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)

Could they secretly force Freenode to silently mute anyone joining the channel except the govt's bots that will report the addresses of honeypots to cripple the network by keeping most people making useless connections and at the same time buil.d a database of who is trying to use Bitcoin?

MoonShadow

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Quote from: AaronM on April 26, 2011, 10:50:30 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

[...] it would be pretty trivial for pretty much any government, not to mention a small-cap corporation, to DOS or disintegrate the Bitcoin network.[...]

+1

I can see at least three ways to attack it other than DoS: delete the bitcoin.org domain (commonly done by US law enforcement), arrest key persons (developers, website owners), or coerce Freenode into blocking this "illegal activity" on their IRC network.

Bitcoin has an urgent need for robustness.

None of these three attacks would do a thing to the running Bitcoin network, and aren't even likely to do much to prevent new users.

John Kirk

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Quote from: rezin777 on April 26, 2011, 10:49:29 PM

I think he was agreeing with you and telling others to stop.

Ah. I see.

Well then, nevermind my misguided remonstrations. :-)

LightRider

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I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.

Quote from: rezin777 on April 25, 2011, 03:15:26 PM

Quote from: LightRider on April 25, 2011, 02:30:56 PM

It's absurd to absolve the corrupting systems of money, government and religion of the actions people make while being forced to operate within their confines.

Wrong. You blame the individual, not the tool. You could not pay me enough money, give me enough power over others, or threaten me with the wrath of any god to convince me to commit murder, theft, or any other immoral act against my fellow man. If I can rise above the confines of these systems, anyone can.

Blaming the tool shifts the focus from the real actors, and practically absolves them of their misdeeds.

"Yes, he committed atrocities, but he did it in the name of his god, he can't be held fully accountable."

"Ahh, but he was poor, and offered such a large sum, who wouldn't have done the same in his place?"

"Of course he voted to go to war, he would have been ostracized by his own party had he not."

Baloney.

If you fear the consequences of negative actions, remove the impetus for those actions. People are violent because they have not been given better tools to deal with conflict. People resort to religious beliefs because they did not learn sufficient reasoning and social skills. Politics are immersed in corruption because everything is for sale in a monetary system. You can't talk about individual actions outside of the context in which they are conditioned, and to do so is to excuse the various systems and actions that produce their behavior.

Edit: Unless of course you are asserting that people will do these things because it is part of their essential "nature", in which case there can be no discussion on how to prevent such behavior, rendering the initial question moot.

AaronM

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Quote from: ?? on ??

[...] it would be pretty trivial for pretty much any government, not to mention a small-cap corporation, to DOS or disintegrate the Bitcoin network.[...]

+1

I can see at least three ways to attack it other than DoS: delete the bitcoin.org domain (commonly done by US law enforcement), arrest key persons (developers, website owners), or coerce Freenode into blocking this "illegal activity" on their IRC network.

Bitcoin has an urgent need for robustness.

rezin777

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Quote from: John Kirk on April 26, 2011, 10:32:14 PM

I must bow to the superior eloquence of your argument.

Before I completely concede defeat, however, could you please specify what it is about my arguments that you find so asinine, so that I may have some cogent basis on which to reply? Also, since I never mentioned USD anywhere in my post, would you be so kind as to briefly describe what I am apparently whining about concerning it?

I think he was agreeing with you and telling others to stop.

John Kirk

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Quote from: AtlasONo on April 26, 2011, 06:20:18 PM

Quote from: John Kirk on April 24, 2011, 01:54:22 AM

I agree with cypherdoc that we need to have a more responsible attitude toward how we react to the use of bitcoins in illicit activities.

I do understand that it is impossible for us to prevent illegal actions from being performed with bitcoins, any more than we could prevent them from being performed with hard cash. However, that does not mean that this community should actively promote it.

When growing a new currency, public perception is everything. Bitcoin needs a squeaky clean image if it is ever going to be accepted by the mainstream public. And yet, we have a section promoting businesses selling Psychotropic Drugs on the bitcoin wiki (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade). I understand that these drugs are actually legal in some countries. But, that's not going to matter to most businesses that are investigating whether they should accept bitcoins from their customers. Most will take one look at that wiki page, see that there are questionable businesses being promoted there, and immediately conclude that they do not want to associate their business name in any way with that kind of activity. I would guess that there have been far more businesses dissuaded from joining the bitcoin community due to those advertisements than have been attracted because of it.

It is not a matter of freedom of speech. Illicit businesses are free to advertise as they want. But, as a community, that does not mean we have to allow them to do it here. This is a matter of practical reality. If we fail to police ourselves, the governments of the world will be more than eager to step in and do it for us. They won't be able to shut down the bitcoin network in its entirety, due to its distributed nature. But, they sure as heck can take it away from me as well as many others on this forum.

/thread

Stop making asinine arguments and whining that USD does it too!!! Roll Eyes

I must bow to the superior eloquence of your argument.

Before I completely concede defeat, however, could you please specify what it is about my arguments that you find so asinine, so that I may have some cogent basis on which to reply? Also, since I never mentioned USD anywhere in my post, would you be so kind as to briefly describe what I am apparently whining about concerning it?

goober

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Quote

child pornography

I for one am all for the legalization of the possession viewing and distribution of child pornography. I don't see people sitting in the privacy of their own homes looking at pictures to be a big fucking deal in the slightest. In fact, the distribution of child pornography on the internet is a good thing, as it allows photographic forensics to locate the actual child abuser.

God, where did all these statists come from?

TiagoTiago

hero member

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Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)

Lol, yay for internet pseudonimity!

Now on a serious note; whoever that was, i hope you used a good annonimyzing proxy to create that sockpuppet and was careful enough with traces control on your machine...

pissass

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Quote

If you order drugs there is a box at the postal office getting picked up.

Which is why you need to ship product with an transmitter / Photovoltaic cell / Volatile memory with three states: compromised, not compromised, no transmit. If the package is intercepted and opened, the photovoltaic cell gets enough light to wipe the not compromised state of the memory and replace it with compromised. If the volatile memory is in encapsulation material customs can't flash freeze it fast enough to preserve / restore the 'not compromised' state. Then you can scan the airwaves at the fake ID box office and look for the signal, and not pick up if there is no transmit or compromised signal. The entire device can be made for a few dollars and is the size of a penny, it can be configured to only transmit after some time delay to avoid customs looking for transmitting packages. If they open in a dark room, vacuum seal the drugs and use an oxygen sensor. Customs doesn't have enough money to open all packages in darkened vacuums. Now you know if the pack got intercepted prior to picking it up.

pissass

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No civilised people don't lock up people for using drugs. That is what fascist totalitarian fuck heads do. I am all for the use of bitcoin for laundering money and keeping drug users and dealers safe. If you don't like it, don't fucking use bitcoin. Also I suggest you go sign up for the Nazi party you fucking fascist pig. I can't wait for the day that you brainwashed bastards are out of power and can no longer hurt me and my innocent friends who just want to enjoy ourselves and use recreational substances. You are fucking evil and I seriously hope you just die. I would rather all of the people like YOU die than the people like you get to live and ruin the lives of people who mind their own business and live a different life style than you accept. You and your ilk are a disease on society. I also am all for assassination markets resulting in the death of the nazis who impose their morality on us at the cost of our life our liberty and our pursuit of happiness. Go fuck yourself you brainwashed sheep.

TiagoTiago

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Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)

So if you trully believe the wolrd would be better if X was not alive anymore it's not against the law to ask for X's assasination?

Topic: How do we prevent money laundering and assasinations? - page 3. (Read 17392 times)