Topic: How do you safely keep your recovery phrase written on paper? - page 2. (Read 777 times)

I am sure that despite the recommendations to write the seed phrase on a piece of paper, most users ignore this recommendation. And this can be explained by the high vulnerability of such a record from fire or flood. So everyone adheres to their own strategy of preserving the seed phrase. But do not forget that your heirs should have access to it, in case you yourself prematurely leave this world.

There can be no 100% perfect and safe way to store anything, including recovery phrase. Anything can be lost, be it a piece of metal or paper. But in the context of the title of this topic, all the same, we are talking about paper as a way of storing seed-phrase, so there were thoughts about using colorless ink. Whether to use this option or not is a purely personal choice.

The date of registration is not the date of birth, and theoretically, it is possible that this account was created, for example, by a teenager in 2016, who now lives with his mother (who, due to the elapsed time, has already become older, but still young for an independent life). Do I believe in the story told by OP? I can't know the truth of what happened, but until your comment I saw no reason to doubt it. Now a seed of doubt has been planted, but that doesn't matter anymore.

If don't dwell on the evil mother, then any family member or close relative can accidentally throw seed-phrase away, lose or destroy it. For example, children who randomly find it written on a piece of paper and not realizing the importance of this will make the text unreadable during the game. And with regard to the caution expressed by you, I can only agree, but I want to add that it would be appropriate to restrict access to written seed phrase to any close person who is not aware of the purpose of this. Harm can be committed without malicious intent and premeditation, but for the simple reason of not knowing and banal accident. 

I mostly write my important details like my seedphrase on notebook to since I feel safer when I write it offline that saving it on any other application on my computer. To safekeep it I told my parents that they shouldn't touch this notebook because I have important information written there and also I save 1 slot on my desk drawers and lock it so that no one can touch it when I'm far from my computer.

Are you offended? I did not mean to offend, but I read all the posts and was surprised by the variety. Simplicity will save the world. Have you heard about it? You don't need to reinvent the wheel to store your seed phrases. You just need to be careful. Likewise, you can also lose a piece of metal. In the same way, Mommy will throw away a piece of paper with colorless ink, so there will be nothing to reproach her with.

The age of the account suggests that the OP is not a child, registered in 2016, and he is still at a loss about storage. Do you really believe it?

And also, I just imagined an evil mother who would not listen to her son; nevertheless, she would carefully clean his table.

It is not necessary to be a millionaire to value your own, albeit modest, savings. Some degree of paranoia will not hurt the owners, what is called reasonable foresight and caution. You, too, don't scatter, for example, information that allows you to access Internet banking or bank details left and right and try to protect your money from theft. The question is who is watching this more closely, and who is negligent. It happens that in some cases it is better to overdo it. It can be blamed for excessive vigilance, it can be blamed for insufficient. Can always find a reason to quibble.

After all, we don't know the age and subtleties of his relationship with his mother, so why condemn him. That's not why he shared his story. I am sure that OP has already heeded to many constructive advice given to him in the discussion of this topic.
 
It seems to me that most of the advice that is given, for verification, can easily turn out to be "rampant fantasy". At least, we definitely can't check who uses what method. If someone advises me, for example, on a method of seed-phrase storing, which the adviser himself doesn't use, then it will not matter to me. If the idea seems interesting to me, then I will test the new method and after satisfactory results, i will use it.

It's amazing to think that these things have to be taught, seriously! in fact I even read that they recommend manuals, there are 1000 and 1 ways to do it, `please!

Ask your mother, I'm sure she will be able to tell you as many ways there is, as you don't ask her!

e.g.
How old are you? Surely your mother keeps your birth certificate very well, etc. etc.

Several people I know say they laminate things to secure their wallet seed phrase. This might be a good choice among many, but I'm sure everyone has their own unique way of keeping it safe.

Have you ever had a big photo on the wall of your house or something? I once considered it one of the safest places to store seeds at home regardless of whether you wrote them down on paper or whatever. In addition, the decoration in the glass cabinet can also be an option for storage if it is about laminating.

After I bought my trezor hardware wallet It has a paper which makes you write those seed phrases and of course, you can make a lot of copies with that not only those given or included in the box there's no security right now in the online world anyone can deep in with your devices if they can, I make five copies of the seed in the house and those are distributed which is rarely seen by the people if you put your seed online I guess it is not more secured as you buy a hardware wallet purpose.

I would advise you to read how fillippone's thread on Securing Your Seed Phrase with Washers. Although, there are many other methods, I have however,  found it to be the real deal. At least if you decide to go ahead with it, the next time your mum cleans your room she would be less likely to throw it away. And in addition, you will be less paranoid. And you wouldn't have a single care in the world about losing it natural disasters as well.

True, but I would argue that if the only place you have backed up your seed phrase is in the same location (your house) that your wallet itself is stored (be that a software wallet on a computer, a hardware wallet, a paper wallet, whatever) then you don't really have a back up at all. The only thing you are protected against is failure of the wallet itself (via direct damage to the computer or hardware wallet, electronic shelf life, and so on). You have absolutely no protection whatsoever against fire, flood, explosion, tornado, landslide, or any other natural disaster, and limited protection against robbery or theft.

If you do not have a completely secure external location to store a back up, then your options include renting one (such as a safe deposit box) or using a system which requires compromise of more than one back up to steal your coins (either multi-sig or additional passphrase(s)).

Good point, if I wouldn't live in the Netherlands The flood-scenario on the other hand, is much more likely.

I agree, but backups out of the safety of your own house also add another risk factor.

+1
This is a very practical advice which would save users lots of headaches, as well as, money spent on acquiring fancy ways to store their bitcoins.

• For one, paper storage makes it relatively easy to back up your seedphrase within minutes as compared to other means, so, one can easily create multiple addresses and back them up safely.
• Anyone can do it themselves, as opposed to some other means of storage that would require one to visit a handyman to execute properly, risking exposure.
• It's easy to store something written on paper safely in multiple locations than to store a block or plate of steel.

I am (at least for seed phrases) - plain old boring paper and ink.

I don't quite buy in to all the hype surrounding metal back ups. There is no denying that stainless steel is more durable the paper. In a house fire, your paper back up will be destroyed but your steel back up will survive. But now think of this practically. Are you going to spend days searching through the rubble of your house, through bricks and nails and dust and ash, to try to find your steel back up, or are you just going to go and retrieve one of your other back ups in probably under an hour? Are you even going to be allowed to search through the rubble, or will it be closed off by police or the fire service while they ensure it is safe or check for any suspicious circumstances? You'll just wait patiently for a few days and hope none of the workers on site stumble across your back up in the meantime?

Consider other disasters such as a flood, tornado, or landslide. Stainless steel will survive that just fine. Will you be able to find it? What good is a steel back up if it is buried under 50 feet of rocks and earth, or if it's been washed down river, and you will never find it again? In such a scenario, your only option is to go retrieve one of your other back ups.

Paper and ink stored properly will survive hundreds of years. Proper redundancy and off site back ups should be the most important thing that people focus on. Two pieces of paper in separate physical locations is far more resistant to disaster than a single piece of metal.

I think this is your fault not your mother's, you were too careless to leave the paper with the seed phrase on the computer desk, it should have been kept in your wallet or somewhere else people can't see.

With seed phrases, it's best to keep them offline instead of online, and security methods won't guarantee that it won't be compromised if it falls into the hands of a hacker.
I usually keep important documents in my room, maybe a safe, a secret place that only I know about and a copy I give to my wife to keep.

I can think of many different ways to store sensitive data, but I'm not comfortable sharing how exactly I do it myself. I can say I don't use invisible ink though

Some advice is like a millionaire or a paranoid owner of bitcoin.
If the OP simply grows up and stops talking to his mother like a small child, then the most ordinary piece of paper on which his seed phrase is written will cease to be a constant worry for him.
How many of those who advised saving phrases in colorless ink themselves use such methods? Rampant fantasy?
Or maybe just be able to maintain order on their own?

Ok, I understand your addition to UV inks and I admit that I didn't take into account the short "life" of such inks. Also, I didn't indicate that being limited to one recovery without copies, and only on paper, is completely unsafe. But it was supposed to. I considered writing recovery phrase with UV ink as a way to keep it easily accessible in case if needed to use it quickly (as an addition to the main). For long-term storage, it is better to use a different material, and not as "fragile" and easily destroyed as paper. Moreover, it is better in several copies.

Aluminum is inferior in its characteristics to titanium and stainless steel, but still, it will be better than plain paper.

Invisible inks generally have quite a limited lifespan. Most UV pens will last somewhere around 3-5 years, but it will depend on the type of ink, the type of paper, the conditions of storage (temperature, humidity, etc.), and so on. You might find that the lifespan of UV ink is significantly less than this, and you would have no way of knowing unless you tested it first and waited several years to assess for fade, which obviously no one is going to do. The last thing you want is to come back to seed phrase in a couple of years to recover your coins and find that the ink has degraded so much that you now can't make out all the words.

Aluminum is a poor choice for engraving a seed phrase. It has low durability, low strength, low melting point, high malleability, and high reactivity. Probably the best metal to use would be titanium, but the best balance between cost/ease of access and durability is stainless steel.

This method, proposed by me, is certainly not universal. In some cases this is acceptable, in others there are other options, such as yours. To see the text with the help of ultraviolet, written with such a "spy" marker, you need to know exactly where to look for it. But what if you don’t have a couple of booklets at home, but a whole home library? Searching through all the books will take a lot of time if you don't know in which book and on which page the seed-phrase or any other password is written. This is much better than keeping recovery phrase  in a notepad on your computer desk.

If they knew about the existence of bitcoin, they would transfer money in a faster and easier way.

It’s important to let them aware that at all costs they must always double check before throwing if it contains a very important information such as seed phrases. And also we must make them remember on where they have stored their seed phrases on paper before throwing anything.

You can engrave the seed phrases in an aluminum plate as it is resistant from fire and water exposure.