Topic: How do you safely keep your recovery phrase written on paper? - page 4. (Read 784 times)

If you aren't locking it in a safe, then it is significantly easier to hide a piece of paper than it is to hide a book. A book is pretty much limited to "hiding in plain sight" - on a book shelf with other books, in a drawer, etc., and simply hope no one opens it and looks in it. A piece of paper can be hidden in more places than you can count. Take a wooden shelf off the wall, drill a small hole in the back of it, roll up your paper and place it inside, and put the shelf back on the wall. The same can be done where two pieces of wood meet in any piece of wooden furniture - chairs, sofas, desks, cabinets, etc. You could even do the same on the top or bottom of a wooden door (with a small piece of tape to make sure it doesn't fall out). Unscrew a light fitting from the roof or an electrical socket from the wall and stuff a piece of paper in there (be sure not to cause a fire hazard). Between a picture and its frame. Inside pretty much anything that can be taken apart. Under carpets or floor boards. Hell, inside your walls if you really wanted. The possibilities are endless. It is entirely possible to hide a piece of paper somewhere in your house that a robber would not find it even if he had free reign to search for an entire week. Books on the other hand are a "classic" hiding place - everyone's seen movies or TV shows where people have cut out the inside pages of a book to create a secret storage compartment.

Well, that's a separate issue which is dealt with by using hidden wallets, passphrases, and plausible deniability.

I can't seem to fathom what could be wrong in storing or writing it on one of the pages of a book, it is just the same thing as writing it on a piece of paper, the only thing is that a single piece of paper can easily be flung around and damaged quicker than a book, that is why the owner has to keep either of them well, depending on what you choose to use.

If a robber knows you have bitcoin and targets you, i do not think any method of security can save you completely, it can only mitigate the loss, and a book doesn't make it easier for them. They can beat the sh*t out of you till you surrender some coins to them, and the amount you surrender depends on how savvy and smart you have kept your coins prior to the event, but for the sake of your life, you have to surrender something to them.

It is extremely reckless to keep seed-phrase on paper in the public domain on your computer desk. Of course, your mom wouldn't steal your crypto using that seed-phrase, but as you saw for yourself, she could easily let others do it out of ignorance. Someone could find your recovery phrases among the garbage (away from home), albeit with a small probability. In your case, you should take care of a safer way to store it. I would recommend that you immediately exclude the online storage option and prefer the local method. In what form it will be, paper, metal, electronic media - it's all up to you.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/securing-your-seed-phrase-with-washers-5389446 - here you can find some ideas for implementing your personal seed phrase storage method.

I don't think it is safe to tell the exact place where people keeps their seed phrases on paper. Just think if someone here personally knows you and you shared here where you've been hiding these phrases, if ever he/she wants to steal something from you, he/she will have very good clues/hints where to look at.
So better think about it yourself on which place is the best place to hide these papered seed phrases.

USB is good for a backup "at hand", but you have to think that an USB stick breaks too easy. Paper is still best.
(Also you have to create the txt file directly on the USB, offline, then archive/password protect it, and all this ideally from a live OS).


You have to find better places. Keep the seed in a sealed envelope and write on it "important". Or write it onto the back of a diploma. Or onto the last page of a book. Or all 3. Also, you don't have a shelf that's only yours? That can also be a good place. However, on the desk, no matter it's under the mouse pad, it's bad place from start.

Has for me this phrase is very important just has your funds you lose them you lose your funds so in this case I got a dairy with a lock  and all my recovery phrase and my password words are writing there  not only for safe keeping but also no body knows what going to happen tomorrow incase there is any challenge or rather death my family can also have access to my funds.

There is no doubt that you made a mistake in leaving something so important and sensitive in such a visible place, but now I guess you have learned something from all that. If you have stored your HW safely, then treat your backup in the same way - because imagine a situation in which your HW breaks down, and then you discover that your mother threw the backup in the trash - unlike that character who is looking for his HDD in some junkyard, you wouldn't have any chance of finding an ordinary piece of paper.


The problem is not that you use paper for backup, but in how you will store that paper. Physical storage, whether it's paper, plastic or metal, has its drawbacks, but you're sure that you won't be hacked by a hacker because you saved your backup as plain text on your computer, or you save it in the cloud or e-mail. However, everyone who has a physical backup should know that one backup is not enough, as well as that 5 backups in the same location do not make sense if that location is threatened by fire, flood, or earthquake.

You don't need to complicate things as some do, so after x years some don't know why the backup doesn't work, whether the words are mixed up or maybe there is additional protection in the form of a passphrase. Make it simple but effective.

mine just simply write it in a notebook and place it randomly on my book shelf. Writing in piece of paper is indeed a safe way to keep our seedphrase safe but have to make it laminated but ofcourse you have to duplicate it just in case the other copy might lost.

There are a few things I would mention.  Flash memory is only good for short to mid term storage due to its life expectancy.  By engraving I hope you mean the DIY version where you buy those metal blocks with letters and use a hammer to print them into a piece of metal, because engraving typically means nowadays laser engraving and that is definitely not what I would consider safe.  And last but not least, laminating should be done at home with your own equipment.  Never take your seed to a shop for engraving or laminating because at that point it becomes compromised.

I can tell you something more likely to happen than a robbery or visitors checking out your piece of paper and understanding what it means.

Kids.  OP can be gone for 2 hours and their mother could have a family visiting and the kid somehow gets to draw all kinds of stuff and mess up with the paper.  There goes the most innocent act out of everything you have mentioned, yet one of the possibly most destructive.

I am in full disagreement.  I think storing it in a book is one of the worst things you can do because so many people do it and I think it is even one of the basic targets of a robbery.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

If it was "hidden" so insecurely that someone found it when simply cleaning, then it would easily found by any attacker. You need to find a better place to secure it where it won't be easily found.

Nope.

I have many seed phrases which are simply written on a simple, unlaminated piece of paper. It is a perfectly acceptable solution if you have proper redundancy in your back ups.

Yes, they are flash memory. They have a limited life span and are easily damaged.

No. It is also not safe to use them if you connect them to an offline computer which then goes back online later. They should only be used on a permanently airgapped computer.

Depends on you. You should tell your mom stop doing this. I know what moms usually want to do and they always think you are kids. You must be too determined with it and you can reduce workload for your mom.

I have a brother who is 27 years old and let my mom takes care of him like a kid. I am speechless because it is unnecessary. If my brother loves his mom, he should do something to stop it but he does not. I think it is unacceptable and I am in conflict with him about that. She did it for me in the past but I rejected it and released her from such unnecessary things. Unfortunately my brother does not release her.

It is not safe. If anyone want to find something with bad intention, they will lift most of things on your table including the mousepad.

USB or flash drive can be corrupted, also if you connect it to an online computer, it's really not safe since you're increase the chance of getting malware, virus etc that would access your private key. Even adding extra security by compressing the file and using password didn't help, a hacker can easily find the vulnerability.

Is your mom is a kind of person who doesn't care with their kids privacy? If it's okay to tell your mom, you can explain to her about Bitcoin etc. If you're not okay for your mom to know Bitcoin, you can give a threat to her like "I will be mad or wouldn't listen to you again if you disturb my privacy"

If your mum can do all of that, best thing's to educate her a bit about bitcoin, you'll achieve two things that way, your backup's are safe, and she becomes your new student in bitcoin matters.

I bought their latest model Trezor T last year and it only provided me 2 papers for backup.


It's only one piece of paper from Trezor T. It doesn't contain all my crypto assets there.

Are USB or flash drive considered flash memory? I'm also using it as a form of backup to my other wallets. Is it safe to use those even if you connect it to your computer which is connected online? Engraving it on a metal will just be the same to my mother, if she sees it somewhere in our house then she could throw it away because she doesn't have any idea what it is.



My mom is a meticulous person. Even if I cleaned it myself, she would still clean it thinking that there are still some stuffs that are unfixed.

It's not really on my table which can be seen by anyone. I placed it under my mousepad where no one would think something important is beneath there.

As far away as possible from the eyes of the people in your house, even if you live alone, leaving a piece of paper containing the key to your funds is careless, what if visitors come, and if we take you to be a complete loner with no friends or acquaintances and no possibility of visitors, what about visitors that need no invitation, now i'm talking about robbers, burglars, they might just target you only to take a few dollars from you, without even knowing you own a satoshi, then they hit a jackpot and find your seed phrase on your table for the taking.

A piece of paper is not bad, a book or booklet is much better though, or you keep the piece of paper somewhere it can't be found or damaged, and only you know where that is in your home.

TL,DR Just keep it to you only, and never online.

Lol. First, start cleaning up your own room! If you're old enough to be on Bitcointalk (for 6 years already), you shouldn't need your mom to clean up after you. Second: don't leave recovery phrases laying around for anyone to find! If you insist on keeping it close to your table for anyone to see, at least tape it under it so it can't easily get lost.

Maybe. Maybe not. But are you willing to risk it? The point of using a hardware wallet is to be absolutely sure nobody can gain access to your funds. If you keep a backup online, you can never be sure.

For starters you shouldn't place such an important piece of paper on a table for anybody who comes to your room to see. Try placing it inside a book or better yet write it inside a book and place that in your bookshelf. That way it won't be randomly seen any other people.
For extra security you can always encrypt the words with an open source tool using AES256 and a strong password that you should also create a backup of.

Not at all.

Online or offline, it will have risk to expose with hackers or bad people. By storing your backup offline, you reduce the risk. If you store if online, you increase the risk and do you think your security is good enough for backup file. I doubt that it is not good enough.

You told that you left your paper backup on computer table. That is very bad practice. So not onky your mom but others who can access your table will be able to find it. You must store it safely from water, fire and oublic eyes. That means you must store it somewhere very privately and secretly.

A simple piece of paper? Are you serious? I understand your mother. An ordinary sheet with incomprehensible words for her. It feels like something childish.

OP, your account is from 2016. How many of these pieces of paper do you keep on your desk? Your question is too banal for your account. Do you have a wallet but don't know how best to save your seed phrase?

What about flash memory, engraving your seed phrase on metal, eventually laminating your paper, and storing it all in several versions away from mom's eyes?

When you bought your Trezor, how many papers were provided for backup? Three right? You can have three backups in three different locations.

Online backup is not a good idea

Hackers steal $655K after picking MetaMask seed from iCloud backup

You have offline wallet but you have your seed phrase online, that makes it an online wallet, and that makes it less secure.