Topic: How good is prune mode! (Read 3519 times)
very good allow me to run core on shitty ssd with few giga and install my games
can anyone explain why a pruned node can't be used as a wallet?
It can.
can anyone explain why a pruned node can't be used as a wallet?
There is no shame in having to ask or to ask first instead of trying the manual or docs. I dont think the patch notes could have been clearer, but since you think otherwise maybe we can take this as an example how they could be improved?
i too like to research, but im finding it more and more apparent that i am being asked by others about what this means and what that means.
put it this way do people ask "how does an iphone work" or do they just try it and see... because even though there is code behind it. its done without using buzzwords. that have no laymen meaning when communicating its usefulness away from the sourcecode.
EG does UTXO (saving typing just 3 less keys on a keyboard) really make things better. "unspents" just makes more sense.
Probably, yes at least depending on the one you talk to.
there is ultimately no reason in any way possible that the word UTXO should have any preference when used in public bitcoin communications
Well, its a grown term and it grew from those very familiar with bitcoin. We might need new terms over time, I agree, but I dont think patch notes are the right place to introduce them.
bitcoin core can have real complex code but then make very simple explanations to bring it down to laymens prospective. i have spent the last 2 years atleast translating code into laymens and it is starting to get apparent that although core pretends to want decentralization and pretends to add features to make more available to the majority, but always fails in the description and details to gain that growth
EG my background is in the coding of adding comments and also having separate documentation for pseudocode and procedure charts to bring the code down to a level anyone can grasp. including case-scenarios and analogies
i have asked a few of the dev coders, aswell as some of the famous youtubers who like to simplify bitcoin and even a few in the bitcoin foundation to do something about opening up bitcoins understanding to the masses. yet even now bitcoin core seems to want to remain as the closed off centre of bitcoin that does not want to share or be part of the community.
EG my background is in the coding of adding comments and also having separate documentation for pseudocode and procedure charts to bring the code down to a level anyone can grasp. including case-scenarios and analogies
i have asked a few of the dev coders, aswell as some of the famous youtubers who like to simplify bitcoin and even a few in the bitcoin foundation to do something about opening up bitcoins understanding to the masses. yet even now bitcoin core seems to want to remain as the closed off centre of bitcoin that does not want to share or be part of the community.
I have to assume here, because I didnt talk to anyone about this, but I would assume that its not that they dont want the results. Doing this kind of work sounds like something coders hate. Many coders I know claim their code can be read without comments, docs or all that other "nonsense". They of course fail to see that someone might not be able to read the code if they are not familiar with that language or at least a variety of other languages. Im pretty sure though that any project (be that core, classic or any of the others forks) would gladly welcome results.
its got nothing to to with my lack of understanding or research and more so about the general public endlessly asking questions.
blockstream aka bitcoin core really need to work on their communications, because even their number one fan, Lauda seems to have failed to grasp it
blockstream aka bitcoin core really need to work on their communications, because even their number one fan, Lauda seems to have failed to grasp it
I dont think this is limited to any specific project within bitcoin. I have to say the patch notes for classic 0.11.2 are simple[1], but there is also nothing overly complex to pitch. The roadmap on the other hand is very vague[2] and I am e.g. not sure what "Software based on Bitcoin Core implementation 0.11.2 and 0.12.0." should tell me. There is no information about which parts are picked and which are not, e.g. does classic include pruning?
Yes, I agree cores patch notes could have been easier. Patch notes in 'simple language' might be a good idea (for any project), but unless someone volunteers to do the work I dont think it will happen.
[1] https://github.com/bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic#what-is-bitcoin
[2] https://github.com/bitcoinclassic/documentation/blob/master/roadmap/roadmap2016.md
There is no shame in having to ask or to ask first instead of trying the manual or docs. I dont think the patch notes could have been clearer, but since you think otherwise maybe we can take this as an example how they could be improved?
i too like to research, but im finding it more and more apparent that i am being asked by others about what this means and what that means.
put it this way do people ask "how does an iphone work" or do they just try it and see... because even though there is code behind it. its done without using buzzwords. that have no laymen meaning when communicating its usefulness away from the sourcecode.
EG does UTXO (saving typing just 3 less keys on a keyboard) really make things better. "unspents" just makes more sense.
there is ultimately no reason in any way possible that the word UTXO should have any preference when used in public bitcoin communications
bitcoin core can have real complex code but then make very simple explanations to bring it down to laymens prospective. i have spent the last 2 years atleast translating code into laymens and it is starting to get apparent that although core pretends to want decentralization and pretends to add features to make more available to the majority, but always fails in the description and details to gain that growth
EG my background is in the coding of adding comments and also having separate documentation for pseudocode and procedure charts to bring the code down to a level anyone can grasp. including case-scenarios and analogies
i have asked a few of the dev coders, aswell as some of the famous youtubers who like to simplify bitcoin and even a few in the bitcoin foundation to do something about opening up bitcoins understanding to the masses. yet even now bitcoin core seems to want to remain as the closed off centre of bitcoin that does not want to share or be part of the community.
its got nothing to to with my lack of understanding or research and more so about the general public endlessly asking questions.
blockstream aka bitcoin core really need to work on their communications, because even their number one fan, Lauda seems to have failed to grasp it
-snip-
kind of funny that shorena would defend lauda (who thinks bitcoin is programmed in java) and then argue that im wrong. when i was saying the correct info..
kind of funny that shorena would defend lauda (who thinks bitcoin is programmed in java) and then argue that im wrong. when i was saying the correct info..
Not sure where you think I "defended" Lauda and for what reason. I usually dont care who the other person is, but try to make sure the information they get is correct.
-snip-
not everyone knows that there are 4 categories of data. and alot of people think WTF is a UTXO..
not everyone knows that there are 4 categories of data. and alot of people think WTF is a UTXO..
I agree.
the problem is that things need to be laymens. EG dont call it UTXO, call it unspents, its only 3 characters longer to type yet gives an easier understanding of the meaning.
Maybe "laymens" dont need to know this at all, but just that when they set "prune" to "550" that there are other important information that need to be stored on top of the 550 MB. I sometimes get feeling that core (or classic, doesnt matter) is less and less aimed at "laymans", but will be run by "geeks" or other enthusiasts anyway.
i know geeks like to look smart by making up new buzzwords so they can get 5 minutes of fame telling the world how they create the buzzword that caught on and become fashionable.. but to the 7 billion people on the planet, buzzwords are causing bitcoin to become less open and transparent to the world.
I mostly get the feeling that "geeks" or "nerds" have a tendency to avoid buzzwords (web 2.0, Industry 4.0 etc.), because they have no clear meaning. As long as the term is precise enough it will do though.
and this very topic has proven to have got alot of people into a pickle about it. and people still unsure about it. so obviously the developers need to do more on the laymen communication side of things.
after all if it takes 3 pages of random questions. then obviously the documentation is lacking the basics..
thats all i was saying
after all if it takes 3 pages of random questions. then obviously the documentation is lacking the basics..
thats all i was saying
RTFM is all I was saying. I think we have a different philosophy here. When I encounter a problem I usually try to find the answer in the available documents, if that does not help and Im familiar with the language I try the source (if available), the IRC channel, a mailing list (if one exists and questions are allowed) and a forum.
There is no shame in having to ask or to ask first instead of trying the manual or docs. I dont think the patch notes could have been clearer, but since you think otherwise maybe we can take this as an example how they could be improved?
going back to my first post i was trying to correct lauda who seemed to suggest it only stored recent blocks.
thats not what the original version of what prune mode was envisioned.
the original vision was to no longer keep spent data. but keep every unspent
kind of funny that shorena would defend lauda (who thinks bitcoin is programmed in java) and then argue that im wrong. when i was saying the correct info..
as for my point about clarifying it.
When did you become someone that needs spoon feeding?
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.11.0/doc/release-notes.md#block-file-pruning
i know i know as i said before, that the real definition of pruning was as you said..
but the 550mb has got alot of people into a pickle that it must cut out some of the UTXO (laymens:unspent) to get to a possible level of 550mb hard drive space.
it needs to be clarified better that the 550mb is not total hard drive storage allocation of everything related to the blockchain but the separate parts related just to recent data that can change. and not related to archival data of unspents.
it may be wrote down in some places as far back as 2013-4-5 when the term pruning first came about. but the 2016 info on the actual release has made some left in a pickle thinking v0.12 is not the same as the original definition of pruning
not everyone knows that there are 4 categories of data. and alot of people think WTF is a UTXO..
the problem is that things need to be laymens. EG dont call it UTXO, call it unspents, its only 3 characters longer to type yet gives an easier understanding of the meaning.
i know geeks like to look smart by making up new buzzwords so they can get 5 minutes of fame telling the world how they create the buzzword that caught on and become fashionable.. but to the 7 billion people on the planet, buzzwords are causing bitcoin to become less open and transparent to the world.
and this very topic has proven to have got alot of people into a pickle about it. and people still unsure about it. so obviously the developers need to do more on the laymen communication side of things.
after all if it takes 3 pages of random questions. then obviously the documentation is lacking the basics..
thats all i was saying
The new Bitcoin Core version (0.12.0) enables you to run a wallet in pruned mode. This means that you can use it without storing the whole blockchain. Essentially it can cut down the usage from around 60 GB of data to around ~2 GB. You only store the last X amount of blocks.
thats not what the original version of what prune mode was envisioned.
the original vision was to no longer keep spent data. but keep every unspent
kind of funny that shorena would defend lauda (who thinks bitcoin is programmed in java) and then argue that im wrong. when i was saying the correct info..
as for my point about clarifying it.
When did you become someone that needs spoon feeding?
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To recap, there are four types of data related to the blockchain in the bitcoin system: the raw blocks as received over the network (blk???.dat), the undo data (rev???.dat), the block index and the UTXO set (both LevelDB databases). The databases are built from the raw data.
Quote
Block pruning allows Bitcoin Core to delete the raw block and undo data once it's been validated and used to build the databases.
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.11.0/doc/release-notes.md#block-file-pruning
i know i know as i said before, that the real definition of pruning was as you said..
but the 550mb has got alot of people into a pickle that it must cut out some of the UTXO (laymens:unspent) to get to a possible level of 550mb hard drive space.
it needs to be clarified better that the 550mb is not total hard drive storage allocation of everything related to the blockchain but the separate parts related just to recent data that can change. and not related to archival data of unspents.
it may be wrote down in some places as far back as 2013-4-5 when the term pruning first came about. but the 2016 info on the actual release has made some left in a pickle thinking v0.12 is not the same as the original definition of pruning
not everyone knows that there are 4 categories of data. and alot of people think WTF is a UTXO..
the problem is that things need to be laymens. EG dont call it UTXO, call it unspents, its only 3 characters longer to type yet gives an easier understanding of the meaning.
i know geeks like to look smart by making up new buzzwords so they can get 5 minutes of fame telling the world how they create the buzzword that caught on and become fashionable.. but to the 7 billion people on the planet, buzzwords are causing bitcoin to become less open and transparent to the world.
and this very topic has proven to have got alot of people into a pickle about it. and people still unsure about it. so obviously the developers need to do more on the laymen communication side of things.
after all if it takes 3 pages of random questions. then obviously the documentation is lacking the basics..
thats all i was saying
Oh and make sure you keep that 66 gb folder backup before you do, else if something goes wrong you'll have to start from scratch and redownload it all.. again.
That includes changing wallets.dat file out too.. will have to "re prune" it
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That includes changing wallets.dat file out too.. will have to "re prune" it
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Is the prune mode activated automatically in 0.12?
I have the old 0.11 Core and I want to keep the whole block chain.
I have the old 0.11 Core and I want to keep the whole block chain.
No, you need to enable pruning.
Hello mates!
Please, I have one question (maybe it's an stupid question).
How is the correct way to prune the database?
I'm with Windows version.
Run the core, download all the blockchain (finally 66Gb in disk).
Go to command line and text:
prune=5000
and receive:
Method not found (code -32601)
Then try with another possible spelling of the command, but nothing happens...
My next step was trying to set it in the bitcoin.conf file.
WTH! I have not this file!
well, I created it, nothing happens.
I dont know what I was doing bad
Please, I have one question (maybe it's an stupid question).
How is the correct way to prune the database?
I'm with Windows version.
Run the core, download all the blockchain (finally 66Gb in disk).
Go to command line and text:
prune=5000
and receive:
Method not found (code -32601)
Then try with another possible spelling of the command, but nothing happens...
My next step was trying to set it in the bitcoin.conf file.
WTH! I have not this file!
well, I created it, nothing happens.
I dont know what I was doing bad
You create a file named bitcoin.conf in your bitcoin folder, write prune=5000 in it and restart core.
Make sure its not named bitcoin.conf.txt or something like that.
Hello mates!
Please, I have one question (maybe it's an stupid question).
How is the correct way to prune the database?
I'm with Windows version.
Run the core, download all the blockchain (finally 66Gb in disk).
Go to command line and text:
prune=5000
and receive:
Method not found (code -32601)
Then try with another possible spelling of the command, but nothing happens...
My next step was trying to set it in the bitcoin.conf file.
WTH! I have not this file!
well, I created it, nothing happens.
I dont know what I was doing bad
Please, I have one question (maybe it's an stupid question).
How is the correct way to prune the database?
I'm with Windows version.
Run the core, download all the blockchain (finally 66Gb in disk).
Go to command line and text:
prune=5000
and receive:
Method not found (code -32601)
Then try with another possible spelling of the command, but nothing happens...
My next step was trying to set it in the bitcoin.conf file.
WTH! I have not this file!
well, I created it, nothing happens.
I dont know what I was doing bad
Is the prune mode activated automatically in 0.12?
I have the old 0.11 Core and I want to keep the whole block chain.
I have the old 0.11 Core and I want to keep the whole block chain.
Sounds great for those who want to run core but want abit of space back. Great idea to have it download the entire blockchain before going into prune mode, meaning that everyone has to independently verify the entire blockchain. 
so is pruned mode activated from the console then? what is the command?
so is pruned mode activated from the console then? what is the command?
Honestly only reason i keep a full node to have access to my wallet.dat file and no one else. I don't even have port forwarding opening hate all those connects/reconnects tearing down my poor router..
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I never installed core because of the so high disk consumption, but this "pruning" does not seem to be too different from other lightweight clients. If you are not going to have the whole blockchain, what is the point of it really?
Well just tried loading my cold wallet, with my "cold" pruned blockchain data and did not work, wont sync or what ever even though they both stop at the same place in the blockchain, in theory they should just start where it left off at. But its not, like it doesn't know where it stop at and it only has access to the latest 2 weeks of data...
Not a happy camper with this "pruned" version
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Not a happy camper with this "pruned" version
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Is this better than using an SPV wallet, or is it the same? I don't get the benefit of storing any of the blockchain, if you aren't going to store the whole thing. Maybe I just don't understand how it works.
Of course it is. You are a pruned node, which is not the case with a SPV wallet. Essentially you can help others become pruned nodes as well, but you are unable to help people become full nodes. Security also depends on how many blocks (storage) you set to hold.No, you cant help anyone else become any form of node as a pruned node. You dont share old blocks and in order to become a pruned node all blocks must be downloaded and verified.
Lauda, thanks for clearing this up. I thought there must be a big "catch" if you aren't storing the whole blockchain. This makes perfect sense. I'm going to continue running a full nodes so that I can help other new nodes. Right now I am running a full node on a Raspberry Pi 2, I'll probably need to upgrade within the next year.
If I use the pruned block chain, and then I have a old wallet, how do I update the wallet.dat file?
You cant change the wallet file with a pruned node, you cant import keys into the existing file either. Well you can do both, but it would require you to start from scratch, download the entire chain, build your databases and prune the raw blockchain data as you go along.
So if I have a wallet created a year ago, and had several transactions by receiving funds, but did not sync. So I have to download the whole chain again to sync, is that right?
Im not entirely sure I understand your question, but if you did not sync a pruned node for too long it might have to start from scratch yes. If you have an existing non-pruned node that you last synced a year ago and want to turn into a pruned one now you can do that and only need to sync the last year.
If I use the pruned block chain, and then I have a old wallet, how do I update the wallet.dat file?
You cant change the wallet file with a pruned node, you cant import keys into the existing file either. Well you can do both, but it would require you to start from scratch, download the entire chain, build your databases and prune the raw blockchain data as you go along.
So if I have a wallet created a year ago, and had several transactions by receiving funds, but did not sync. So I have to download the whole chain again to sync, is that right?
I literally last night moved a lot of my coins off core to a copay wallet because my mac had run out of disk. I wake up this morning and read the awesome news!
Installed, changed the bitcoin.conf file, started core, about 1min later I had reclaimed 55GB.
Thanks core devs!
congratulation for some people who had installed latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.12.0Installed, changed the bitcoin.conf file, started core, about 1min later I had reclaimed 55GB.
Thanks core devs!
i wish i can mine bitcoin and use the latest bitcoin core next version.
ya likewise, what i have done is run 2 nodes, 1 full node other pruned and sync my "cold wallet" and removed the wallet.dat file, and shut down the prune node. When i want access to my cold wallet i'll do like i did before with the full node, copy my wallet.dat file unto the custom prune data folder and let it "catch up" to the latest blocks.
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