Topic: How mining GeistGeld/Tenebrix can get you a prison sentence in the US - page 3. (Read 4590 times)

WoW gold != proper money or else we wouldn't need blockchain based cryptocurencies at all. If it were so superior you would be laundering money with it instead of Lolcoins.

Nice scam with your chains btw, if either one goes to .01 btc your net worth would be about 77,000 btc. I imagine one could live nicely for quite some time in Belarus for that. Hell, one could live nicely in America for that much.

Awesome!

Do provide link here so I can put it on the website in some section or other


Nah, with people like you I don't even need to post bounties. Enough of you (allegedly) American attorneys-at-lol e-lawyering poetically about woeful nature of my humble projects and exact cases that allegedly might be relevant, and I will have all the PR I could ever need, for 0 GG/TBX/BTC/USD/JPY  

P.S.:
Having said that, how did those year-and-something old WoW-gold money laundering cases go, any arrests so far ;-P ? (do note that WoW gold has more in common with "proper money" than Tenebrix or Bitcoin or any other "cryptocurrency" of this general type)

P.P.S.:

All I intend to do, essentially, is exchange old, worn "postage stamps"  for new ones I happened to get from a factory early on before it closed its doors to me and became public property  ,  and a small fee in the form of a few extra stamps  .

Whether that makes all the owners of all the postage stamps manufactured by the same factory conspirators, is, quite frankly, not up to internet-based attorneys at lol to decide 

What I have is the truth. What you have is a lack of understanding. From the wikipedia article I linked, since you seem to lack the basic ability to click and read:


Newsflash: you are still liable for the EULA, whether or not you read it. Ignorance is not a defense under the law.



No bounty, thx. I don't want to install a client and help further your continuing criminal enterprise. Thx, tho.



With Bounty, of course 

How could you not suspect a laundering operation? Look how white that labcoat is! ------->

I understand the part about "money laundering".
But how do you dry it without wrinkling it.

Ha ha ha haha.

Boy, this is absolutely hillarious. Could you please post this to Twitter or something ? (I can't pwomise a bounty, tho :-P )

I didn't read it, hell I missed the entire part about 7 million coins being pregenerated!
You assume much. 

Newsflash:  Nobody reads EULAs, either.

No but they do have to honor extradition treaties.


Neither was E-gold.


1) Yes it can. The very pages that provide the links to download the software have the intentions written on them. No jury will believe that you read the rest of the post regarding the software and somehow skipped the lines regarding the laundry part and still downloaded and configured everything correctly. The accused would have to prove they did not know it. If you want to base your freedom on trying to prove a negative like that, go right ahead. Protip: There are a lot of people in the US Federal prison system who thought they could 'prove' they did not know about a conspiracy. 

2). Somehow I think kids sharing the latest Transformers movie is a slightly lower priority than a service enabling terrorist organizations to instantly launder huge amounts of money from anywhere on the planet. I have no idea why you brought up a public tracker anyway. The point I was making is that they could easily use the 'proven' laundering from LolCoins to go after all cryptocurrencies.

3) I could claim to be a Federal judge of 22 years, or a practicing attorney, or an ex-con, would it matter? There is no need for caution or humility in my statements, because I know I am right. I am intimately familiar with the Federal Court system, and a number of cases. If you don't know how to do your own basic legal research into a topic, then you are probably not going to understand what you read anyway. If you are not familiar with the concept of conspiracy in law, then perhaps you should start with Wikipedia and go from there.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(crime)#United_States

It is your freedom, risk it as you see fit. I am simply explaining how a US Attorney can put people away for many years for mining. They try drug cases that are more difficult to prove than this every single day.

Some interesting points.

Some things you mentioned though just don't jive with me

1) "It can be assumed every miner is aware of the creators intentions".  No it can't.
2) "It will be used as a tool to demonize and shut down other chains". The pirate bay is alive and well in the US, I think they're a bigger target than a 3-day old cryptocurrency.
3) Also, your post screams of pure scare tactics.  The delivery of your information has no caution or humility behind it, you don't claim any legal background, you don't cite any cases to support your claim.


I'd like to weigh your evidence, but you don't give any.

Provide more info, less rhetoric.

GeistGeld/tenebrix aren't money though.

Even im just BTC miner, i had to say this.. FFS im happy that i live in Europe!

Yankees and their stupid laws! Remember that your coffee is hot when its served... if you dont remember that, you should re-read that warning sign in your mug again and TROLL some more... Isnt it fantastic that other countrys doesnt have to honor US Laws

Lolcust, the creator of the ‘LolCoins’ (GeistGeld and Tenebrix) has explicitly stated that his intention is to open a money laundering service with the 7,700,000 coins he premined in both chains. Perhaps in his country money laundering is a time honored and noble profession, but in most of the civilized world, it is illegal. This post is intended to educate those not familiar with the legal system in the United States, and to explain why mining these chains makes a miner just as guilty as the worst element laundering money with these coins.  I know that there are a fair amount of people in the community who could care less about laws and prison and such. More power to you, good luck in your battles. This post is for those who do care.

Most of the time in US Federal cases involving 2 or more people, the charges brought will be "Conspiracy to commit ". The burden of proof required for a “Conspiracy” variant of a crime is far less than it would be for the “normal” charge. Most Federal drug convictions in the US involve the “Conspiracy” variants, as witness testimony is usually enough for conviction, with absolutely zero physical evidence. Usually the prosecution has to show that a person 1) knew about the conspiracy and 2) benefitted from it. Under the law, every person involved in the conspiracy is equally guilty. The prosecutors for the US Government use this to force snitching and plea deals. It is an extremely effective tool.

Here is how this applies to the current situation: These chains were designed specifically to enable a money laundering operation. This has been stated in many places on an open, public forum, on the very pages that have the download links. It can be reasonably presumed that anyone mining these chains knows about the creator’s intentions, and therefore knows about the conspiracy. Miner gets coins for mining the chain, and thus benefits from the conspiracy. Also, the encrypting part of the mining as well as securing the network would also be seen as furthering the conspiracy.

Under US law, this makes anyone mining these chains as guilty as whoever is laundering money through it. Whether they be an evil drug lord, a Russian mobster, or a terrorist organization. Not a US citizen? Perhaps you will be ignored. Though if a terrorist organization laundered money via these chains and successfully launched an attack…well the CIA is still running its ‘Rendition’ program I believe. Also note that the Feds do not need to catch everyone. Even a dozen or so convictions would justify the money spent and give them their photo ops.

It would also give them all the ammunition they needed to demonize and shut down all other blockchain based cryptocurrencies.