How much money and bitcoins do you need to influence the price?

g-uid

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Quote from: sinkfish on November 26, 2018, 08:03:35 AM

Quote from: Kprawn on June 18, 2018, 12:09:05 PM

So, the latest buzzword in Bitcoin is manipulation. Has anyone worked out how much money and bitcoins is needed to trigger

a change in the buy and sell behaviour of traders on exchanges? I know the Silkroad Auction did not make a significant impact

on the price and the same goes for the odd coins that were sold from the MtGox hoard. How many coins can individuals dump

on exchanges to push the price down like this? How long can they sustain such an action to sabotage the price? These are

questions that are very relative at the moment. Roll Eyes

If the SEC says that the high price increase of last year was manipulation, then they must bring the proof. Let's do our own

informal assessment of the situation and determine what would be needed to cause that kind of a spike in the price. Wink

easily couple millions to billions and many strings to pull.

In reality you don't need much to move the market. Bitcoin just isn't that big.

It's not massive whales doing the heavy lifting, it's rogue players with no scruples.

The reality is that the exchanges are not regulated and the rogue players are having the time of their lives.

Not being regulated means that things like Wash Trading (banned in the 1930s!) are not illegal. There are exchanges that don't even know what Wash Trading is, let alone monitor or prohibit it. Wash Trading is when you buy and sell your own orders. Doing so manipulates volume, which in turn impacts and manipulates price.

If one can shift the price of Bitcoin with a 1000 coins in a legit buy or sell (just ask any serious trader), then know that you can heavily manipulate the market with a few hundred coins, leveraged and wash traded.

sinkfish

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Quote from: Kprawn on June 18, 2018, 12:09:05 PM

So, the latest buzzword in Bitcoin is manipulation. Has anyone worked out how much money and bitcoins is needed to trigger

a change in the buy and sell behaviour of traders on exchanges? I know the Silkroad Auction did not make a significant impact

on the price and the same goes for the odd coins that were sold from the MtGox hoard. How many coins can individuals dump

on exchanges to push the price down like this? How long can they sustain such an action to sabotage the price? These are

questions that are very relative at the moment. Roll Eyes

If the SEC says that the high price increase of last year was manipulation, then they must bring the proof. Let's do our own

informal assessment of the situation and determine what would be needed to cause that kind of a spike in the price. Wink

easily couple millions to billions and many strings to pull.

fauzan Ichsan

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Quote from: squog on November 26, 2018, 02:43:54 AM

I don't know, i mean we'll be looking at millions of dollars to be able yo manipulate a market to the extent of seeing it increase its price. That is, without the fact that crypto currency has this price correction phase. So that means that if you're a whale, you'll need to look at your portfolio 24/7 to get chump change.

I think it can be predicted that the current market capitalization will decline, of course the big decline will make BTC back to dump. but I don't know how many whales move together

squog

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I don't know, i mean we'll be looking at millions of dollars to be able yo manipulate a market to the extent of seeing it increase its price. That is, without the fact that crypto currency has this price correction phase. So that means that if you're a whale, you'll need to look at your portfolio 24/7 to get chump change.

iMark

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Quote from: sirohige on November 21, 2018, 05:21:06 AM

to be able to manipulate the price at the exchange only with the amount of money you have it seems that it will not be able to because you have to make good news or bad about cryptocurrency so that it can affect several traders and can make the price of the exchange affected by your strategy.

Thats true, even though large capital is not necessarily able to manipulate and give a big influence on the market,
the whales uses many methods such as FUD, speculation, news and so on to influence the market, not just using big money

Dodoymabs

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Definitely, it involves a lot of factors which it includes the users and the developer. Also, supply and demand will always be there because this is the major factors that will surely help the value to change which it depends on how the market react.

yanesna3

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Quote from: patarfweefwee on November 20, 2018, 10:28:03 PM

To actually influence an expensive coin such as Bitcoin or Ethereum, you'll need tons of money and I'm talking about anything north of ten million US dollars will surely make a dent to the price of crypto currency. But you have to take into consideration the price correction if ever that would happen and how much work it needs.

You need to have billions. I suppose, the number of people that can really affect the price of Bitcoin is limited with dozens. These individuals are called the whales, the guys, who have the largest part of BTC.

Rashid555

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If you want to influence the price of bitcoin then for you have the power to change the price behavior if you hold more than 50% of the holding and bitcoin market is very volatile so making decision for this is very critical and it's holders are not against of it but the new people are using wrong thoughts about it, I want to hold for long term.

Menawi12

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I think its need billions dollar to increase bitcoin price. We know bitcoin market cap more than $80billions. I am think only institutional investment firm can make bitcoin rising again

Hilly

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Quote from: cc80aa on November 15, 2018, 02:32:14 AM

Maybe not necessary or good idea to put billions from your wallet to manipulate the price of bitcoin, invest a little then hold it a year if thousand people do this im sure it will be big impact on bitcoin price we need unity..

Since this is a trillion dollar market, you need definitely billions to make things happen but I do not suggest it because the market is best influenced by the aggregate income put in the system and not by not individual putting all his money in the system.

trader34

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Regarding Bitcoin, to influence its price you will need tons of money, since the volumes are high. Instead, for many altcoins, you could influence the price with much smaller amounts...

Sirait

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there must be a multimillion-dollar purchase transaction to influence prices, it is impossible that only thousands of dollars can affect prices and make prices rise. This is the reason why the WHALE group is created, is to manipulate prices for their mutual profit...

Halmater

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Since its market cap is not so small necessary amount of money must be so much in normal circumstances but we all know that market prices are struggling with bear market over the past months and I guess a ten millions of dollars may change everything. It is a good time in order to seize traders' minds and influence behaviour of traders.

darkr

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Quote from: patarfweefwee on November 20, 2018, 10:28:03 PM

To actually influence an expensive coin such as Bitcoin or Ethereum, you'll need tons of money and I'm talking about anything north of ten million US dollars will surely make a dent to the price of crypto currency. But you have to take into consideration the price correction if ever that would happen and how much work it needs.

No one of the guys sitting here, on this forum, has enough money to affect the prices of the cryptocurrencies. Only the richest people in the world that own the largest part of Bitcoins, can do it.

mazdafunsun

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I believe that this is happening with high probabilty.
People have manipulated stock markets from the begining and BTC market is just too easy target for those who have liquidity.

The amount depeneds on the eny given momnet, what is the volume how tick are the buy books.

sirohige

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to be able to manipulate the price at the exchange only with the amount of money you have it seems that it will not be able to because you have to make good news or bad about cryptocurrency so that it can affect several traders and can make the price of the exchange affected by your strategy.

guoyu78

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Quote from: Sab11 on November 01, 2018, 10:11:56 AM

To manipulate and influence the price of bitcoin you need a huge amount of money hundred million i think and also a influence people in crypto like jp morgan etc, but for sure bitcoin will recover and will recover if someone manipulate it.

I think more than money the influence is quite weird as well. For example if the president of IMF said to a president of a country "you should do this" that president actually listens to what she is saying, normally that is a very big and important person giving you some tips. However in crypto world when she said the governments and banks should start considering bitcoin a lot bigger and start printing their own digital currency, we didn't reacted as much as we react to hash wars.

The price didn't even flinch. However during the hash wars the price moved down further than we could imagine in just half an hour. Which tells me influence is a weird concept that changes place to place, I think donald trump/putin/macron or whatever saying something about bitcoin wouldn't make any change in the market whereas if Vitalik says he is leaving ETH it would make a lot of difference.

patarfweefwee

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To actually influence an expensive coin such as Bitcoin or Ethereum, you'll need tons of money and I'm talking about anything north of ten million US dollars will surely make a dent to the price of crypto currency. But you have to take into consideration the price correction if ever that would happen and how much work it needs.

Aramazdi

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Quote from: ukloon on June 18, 2018, 01:14:03 PM

It's more difficult now because bitcoin has a large market cap, but for lower MC altcoins it would be very easy. Mt Gox isn't just about them dumping their coins, it's about panic sellers learning about gox moving their coins that causes the jitters

to shake up the price of bitcoin, of course very large money is needed, but there are many ways for traders to boost the market, one of which is creating spectacular news that can make bitcoin owners panic , by itself bitcoin owners will sell their coins crowded and it will cause a sharp drop in prices , in fact there are many ways that can affect the price of bitcoin in the market , but all of these methods are not easy to do.

resty

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Quote from: Kprawn on June 18, 2018, 12:09:05 PM

So, the latest buzzword in Bitcoin is manipulation. Has anyone worked out how much money and bitcoins is needed to trigger

a change in the buy and sell behaviour of traders on exchanges? I know the Silkroad Auction did not make a significant impact

on the price and the same goes for the odd coins that were sold from the MtGox hoard. How many coins can individuals dump

on exchanges to push the price down like this? How long can they sustain such an action to sabotage the price? These are

questions that are very relative at the moment. Roll Eyes

If the SEC says that the high price increase of last year was manipulation, then they must bring the proof. Let's do our own

informal assessment of the situation and determine what would be needed to cause that kind of a spike in the price. Wink

Since the beginning I don't believed there are manipulation of bitcoin because we are all participant and involve the trend of bitcoin but until almost no good development of price and it is gradually slowing down now I change my mine that there is something happen with bitcoin price. there is manipulation inside the organization of bitcoin.

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