How much money and bitcoins do you need to influence the price? - page 5.

Kprawn

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1074

Quote from: jcarlo on June 19, 2018, 08:32:31 PM

If there is manipulation in bitcoin price last year, i think peoples like us, a small investor can not do that. From what i thinking, its must be a financial firm with large funds can manipulate market.

There are some rumours doing the rounds that Wall Street investors are involved in the manipulation of the Bitcoin price,

because it has a impact on their positions on Bitcoin Futures investments. The SEC is also busy with an investigation on the

manipulation of Bitcoin prices. Huh

The drop in the price after this announcement was made, was a dead giveaway that it

was being done. Angry

The scale of this is unknown, but I think it must be huge, if people are withdrawing cash and bitcoins

from exchanges. If these people stopped, because they might fear prosecution, then we are going to be in for a boring ride

in the future. Roll Eyes

jcarlo

member

Activity: 798

Merit: 10

If there is manipulation in bitcoin price last year, i think peoples like us, a small investor can not do that. From what i thinking, its must be a financial firm with large funds can manipulate market.

Averim

member

Activity: 515

Merit: 12

Quote from: Kprawn on June 18, 2018, 11:09:05 AM

So, the latest buzzword in Bitcoin is manipulation. Has anyone worked out how much money and bitcoins is needed to trigger

a change in the buy and sell behaviour of traders on exchanges? I know the Silkroad Auction did not make a significant impact

on the price and the same goes for the odd coins that were sold from the MtGox hoard. How many coins can individuals dump

on exchanges to push the price down like this? How long can they sustain such an action to sabotage the price? These are

questions that are very relative at the moment. Roll Eyes

If the SEC says that the high price increase of last year was manipulation, then they must bring the proof. Let's do our own

informal assessment of the situation and determine what would be needed to cause that kind of a spike in the price. Wink

i think with 1 000 BTC you could start to manipulate somehow the market, but i don't think it is inaff, you need serious cash for such things.

Tungsten-1

sr. member

Activity: 994

Merit: 256

Quote from: Arkham Knight on June 19, 2018, 01:52:03 AM

I'm pretty sure that they need B20 - B30 to surely affect the price. Based on my observation on coinmarketcap, whenever the prices make a sudden change, I always see either 20-30 billions injected or removed from it.

They have got some plans, definitely and they are moving accordingly. These whales are so strong that they can afford big losses as well to manipulate bitcoin and their market according to their own wishes and desires. So just forget about their loss. But yes as you have said, this is right. Big amount of bitcoin is removed or injected whenever prices get a sharp downfall or sheer.

PsylockReborn

member

Activity: 420

Merit: 24

I guess selling 200 btc at once in a day could affect the price of the coin. That's roughly around $1.4m. It's a lot of money that only whales can afford. If a bunch of whale friends will come up into a consensus of manipulating the market then it is very possible that they can do pump and dump but very risky as well for they can lose their money in the process.

bering

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1006

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

it's hard to find the exact answers regarding this question because crypto market from all of bitcoin users in this world were very huge currently and possibly to increase for each day and for those who want to influence the price then it took billions dollar to do so

ayiaye

jr. member

Activity: 170

Merit: 1

I think to be able to manipulate / affect the bitcoin price, now is quite difficult. because bitcoin has a large market capitalization. this must have a lot of money. the best way to influence bitcoin prices is to make negative news about bitcoin.

SvonioneFromMangoCoinz

member

Activity: 663

Merit: 10

https://streamies.io/

I do not know how much money can control the price of bitcoin and the crypto market. I have seen some whales pump in price in recent days. 3 million USD will It is probably the most reasonable number

PayneCharity

newbie

Activity: 126

Merit: 0

Quote from: Soneo on June 18, 2018, 11:52:17 AM

I think maybe it could be up to $ 1 million to be able to affect the price in the market

$ 1 million is still a very small number that can manipulate bitcoin prices. I think you will need 30 times the amount of $ 1 million. Only whales can manipulate bitcoin prices

Howard1102

jr. member

Activity: 126

Merit: 5

Quote from: udonmez on June 18, 2018, 11:55:54 AM

I think manipulating bitcoin price is not easy anymore but with couple of hundred grands you can manipulate altcoin prices.

You can manipulate altcoin prices in the top 200-1000. But you can not use a few hundred dollars to altcoin price in the top 100. Because if you want to manipulate altcoin, then you must have over $ 100,000

Hughes_Ryan

member

Activity: 364

Merit: 10

Quote from: ShadowBits on June 18, 2018, 12:24:04 PM

Quote from: Kprawn on June 18, 2018, 11:09:05 AM

So, the latest buzzword in Bitcoin is manipulation. Has anyone worked out how much money and bitcoins is needed to trigger

a change in the buy and sell behaviour of traders on exchanges? I know the Silkroad Auction did not make a significant impact

on the price and the same goes for the odd coins that were sold from the MtGox hoard. How many coins can individuals dump

on exchanges to push the price down like this? How long can they sustain such an action to sabotage the price? These are

questions that are very relative at the moment. Roll Eyes

If the SEC says that the high price increase of last year was manipulation, then they must bring the proof. Let's do our own

informal assessment of the situation and determine what would be needed to cause that kind of a spike in the price. Wink

I think you need billions. But only a huge company can do that. Those who has the most Bitcoin could ever manipulate the market and that scares me a lot.

I heard there is a large whale living in China. He is holding over 90,000 BTC in his wallet. If he hates bitcoin and sells bitcoin at a low price, then I think the crypto market will collapse

Chacon994

newbie

Activity: 169

Merit: 0

If I had $ 1 billion, I would be able to pump in bitcoins and help the bitcoin increase to $ 15,000. But if I have $ 1 billion I just need to send a bank and not have to work for the rest of my life Grin

Kprawn

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1074

Quote from: Arkham Knight on June 19, 2018, 01:52:03 AM

I'm pretty sure that they need B20 - B30 to surely affect the price. Based on my observation on coinmarketcap, whenever the prices make a sudden change, I always see either 20-30 billions injected or removed from it.

Your guess makes the best sense, because I have made a similar observation. The thing is such manipulation will not go

unnoticed, so they will gradually dump these coins on multiple exchanges over a longer period. You do not want to create a

Sell or Buy Wall that draws too much attention, when you dump all at once. The dump must also be just enough to trigger a

panic wave amongst investors. Roll Eyes

I think this is also the current strategy with the prolonged decline in the price. {I see a

"cook a frog" scenario here} Angry

Proton2233

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 252

Quote from: Soneo on June 18, 2018, 11:52:17 AM

I think maybe it could be up to $ 1 million to be able to affect the price in the market

Lol! What is $ 1 million? For you it is a lot but any exchange sells several thousand bitcoins every day. In order to manipulate the price of bitcoin you need to invest a lot of money in fake news in the media. Then you need to capture the dominance of all the most popular cryptocurrency exchanges. I think this amount is several billion dollars.

jseverson

hero member

Activity: 1834

Merit: 759

There are way too many factors to accurately estimate such a figure. It has to be noted that even a small slump can cause panic traders to sell, so it might not even take that much to begin with for as long as enough people go with the flow. Another factor is the actual amount of circulating coins; lots of them are lost forever, and lots of them are in cold storages, so we have no idea how much Bitcoins are actually on the market, making market cap even less reliable of a metric. Manipulators won't come out in the open either, so we won't get to hear their side of the story.

IMO the best place to begin is with the Mt. Gox trustee. People found out that he unloaded $400 million worth of Bitcoins, and they were so quick to say (some even had numbers IIRC) that that sale caused the price slide then. It turned out he had nothing to do with it, but it may be reasonable to believe that such an amount could drop Bitcoin's price by a couple of thousands by itself.

Still, I'd say most of the manipulation going on at the moment has more to do with questionable buy and sell orders rather than a whale or two dropping or gobbling up an absurd amount of coins.

gambitcoin53

member

Activity: 378

Merit: 25

Quote from: Kprawn on June 18, 2018, 11:09:05 AM

So, the latest buzzword in Bitcoin is manipulation. Has anyone worked out how much money and bitcoins is needed to trigger

a change in the buy and sell behaviour of traders on exchanges? I know the Silkroad Auction did not make a significant impact

on the price and the same goes for the odd coins that were sold from the MtGox hoard. How many coins can individuals dump

on exchanges to push the price down like this? How long can they sustain such an action to sabotage the price? These are

questions that are very relative at the moment. Roll Eyes

If the SEC says that the high price increase of last year was manipulation, then they must bring the proof. Let's do our own

informal assessment of the situation and determine what would be needed to cause that kind of a spike in the price. Wink

to influence the price is to create a trend, even a trader who have moved a huge amount will not even tap the price, what is more dangerous is if others will follow, trending matters, create a panic selling trade will surely make the price go deeper, we can take diamonds as an example of how powerful creating trends are, it was originally has no value just like an ordinary stone, but since the manufacturer saw a potential in that stone, they marketed diamonds as an accessories for the royalties. and now look at its price. trending matters.

Arkham Knight

full member

Activity: 532

Merit: 100

I'm pretty sure that they need B20 - B30 to surely affect the price. Based on my observation on coinmarketcap, whenever the prices make a sudden change, I always see either 20-30 billions injected or removed from it.

jupyterxxx

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: bigmelons25 on June 18, 2018, 04:49:50 PM

I'd say 2k + btc is enough to influence the markets. You don't even have to actually sell your btc, al ot of these whales just place fake orders to scare people and lower the price.

Agree with you here. Many whales don't actually intend to sell so many of their own btc today I believe. They're simply placing these sell orders as a form of manipulation. And sometimes maybe sell a fraction of it just to speed things up. But the sad reality is that the masses fall for this trick every single time. And when prices dip to a good level, the whales come in and buy them again. It's an ongoing cycle from what I know since last year

FlightyPouch

sr. member

Activity: 1638

Merit: 300

Quote from: Diablomania on June 18, 2018, 06:31:41 PM

Not less than 2000 to be honest, because it would be too little if you have less than that amount.. so i think that it will be enough for having some influence

Come one man. Reaching a price of $19K with a investment of $2000? I don't think it will be that much of a ripple if the money being invested is that low. If we are talking about this big of a price, the stone thrown is obviously a big one, we might be talking about a hundred million or higher it might be a billion we do not know but all we know is that it is a large sum of money and I think that certain person earned a good profit out of it since the price dumped quickly.

SIIP

newbie

Activity: 18

Merit: 0

It depends if you want to do short term influence or long term influence. Short term I would say even 100-200k could do the trick right now because of the low volume and low price. But if you want to affect things long term (where the big boys play) you would need somewhere around 10-20M. Take away a couple zeros if you are able to use margin websites.

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