How profitable are exchanges? - page 7.

Benjig

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Activity: 462

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Quote from: smoothie on July 08, 2014, 02:24:47 AM

Quote from: Gilberto on February 04, 2014, 06:16:25 AM

MCXNow, Crypsy, BTCT, BTC-E?

I'm conducting a survey to determine the actual profitability of the popular exchanges.

Does anyone have any idea of what the volume is for these exchanges? What these exchanges make weekly or monthly and how we could find out?

I presume you are assuming that the profit that is garnered has no morals?

MXCNOW has shown (as an example) to not care about their users and profit supersedes anything else.

I'd say it is quite profitable. Most scams I would guess are profitable.

BTC-e as a long standing exchange is likely very profitable. I've had little issues with their platform but they seem to have a huge following of users that continue to use their exchange.

Mcxnow and his admin realsolid is the perfect example of a not seriously business, an exchange runned by one person and probably a non trusted user.

cech4204a

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Activity: 252

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12CDKyxPyL5Rj28ed2yz5czJf3Dr2ZvEYw

Key to getting such a nice fees is the trust, so you need to gain trust first, than you can go ahead and run the business. But be carefull, your government is looking after you and you might get banned/siezed/robbed soon.

DannyElfman

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Activity: 406

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Quote from: boraf on July 08, 2014, 12:32:09 PM

Quote from: smoothie on July 08, 2014, 02:24:47 AM

Quote from: Gilberto on February 04, 2014, 06:16:25 AM

MCXNow, Crypsy, BTCT, BTC-E?

I'm conducting a survey to determine the actual profitability of the popular exchanges.

Does anyone have any idea of what the volume is for these exchanges? What these exchanges make weekly or monthly and how we could find out?

I presume you are assuming that the profit that is garnered has no morals?

MXCNOW has shown (as an example) to not care about their users and profit supersedes anything else.

I'd say it is quite profitable. Most scams I would guess are profitable.

BTC-e as a long standing exchange is likely very profitable. I've had little issues with their platform but they seem to have a huge following of users that continue to use their exchange.

Profit does supersede everything else. When market crashed badly, the leverage position on btc-e loss will eventually need to pass to customers.

I would suspect that any leverage related losses would be passed onto customers on any exchange. I think an interesting new feature for the swaps market to also be able to restrict the borrower as to how much leverage they can use with your swap loan.

boraf

full member

Activity: 315

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Quote from: smoothie on July 08, 2014, 02:24:47 AM

Quote from: Gilberto on February 04, 2014, 06:16:25 AM

MCXNow, Crypsy, BTCT, BTC-E?

I'm conducting a survey to determine the actual profitability of the popular exchanges.

Does anyone have any idea of what the volume is for these exchanges? What these exchanges make weekly or monthly and how we could find out?

I presume you are assuming that the profit that is garnered has no morals?

MXCNOW has shown (as an example) to not care about their users and profit supersedes anything else.

I'd say it is quite profitable. Most scams I would guess are profitable.

BTC-e as a long standing exchange is likely very profitable. I've had little issues with their platform but they seem to have a huge following of users that continue to use their exchange.

Profit does supersede everything else. When market crashed badly, the leverage position on btc-e loss will eventually need to pass to customers.

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1473

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: Gilberto on February 04, 2014, 06:16:25 AM

MCXNow, Crypsy, BTCT, BTC-E?

I'm conducting a survey to determine the actual profitability of the popular exchanges.

Does anyone have any idea of what the volume is for these exchanges? What these exchanges make weekly or monthly and how we could find out?

I presume you are assuming that the profit that is garnered has no morals?

MXCNOW has shown (as an example) to not care about their users and profit supersedes anything else.

I'd say it is quite profitable. Most scams I would guess are profitable.

BTC-e as a long standing exchange is likely very profitable. I've had little issues with their platform but they seem to have a huge following of users that continue to use their exchange.

InwardContour

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Activity: 644

Merit: 260

Quote from: Harley997 on July 04, 2014, 06:39:21 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on July 04, 2014, 03:24:44 PM

Quote from: Harley997 on July 04, 2014, 02:13:56 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on July 04, 2014, 07:03:31 AM

How much did 1 BTC buy on November 28, how much did it buy on January 18, How much now, how much on May 10? And how much will it buy next month, next year?

You cannot use short, specific time periods to compare buying ability. When you do that you can easily pick and choose periods that make the data work in your favor.

The point is that there have been periods when the purchasing power of 1 BTC dropped by more than 50%.

You could pick two arbitrary points in time and could make a negative point about any currency or any investment. You are not going to find any financial unit of measurement that will go up in a straight line. Over long periods of time the purchasing power of bitcoin has increased.

It is generally best to look at long term results of any investments to get a good idea as to how it has performed. You should also be looking at several starting points at equal intervals, for example a 3, 6, 9 and 12 month rate, or a 1, 3, and 5 year rate of return.

SunBin

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Activity: 151

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on July 05, 2014, 03:31:33 AM

Quote from: Harley997 on July 04, 2014, 06:39:21 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on July 04, 2014, 03:24:44 PM

The point is that there have been periods when the purchasing power of 1 BTC dropped by more than 50%.

You could pick two arbitrary points in time and could make a negative point about any currency or any investment. You are not going to find any financial unit of measurement that will go up in a straight line.

Hm, when was the last 6-month period where the purchase power of the dollar fell 50%?

The Brazilian real did that in 1996 (days after the reelection of the president whose only campaign point was its stability). Since then it has fallen gradually by another 30% perhaps.

Quote from: Harley997 on July 04, 2014, 06:39:21 PM

Over long periods of time the purchasing power of bitcoin has increased.

Indeed, anyone who bought bitcoin at any time before November 1st, 2013 has seen about 1000% increase per year on average.

BUT those who bought after that moment have had a much mixed returns, from very good gains (if they bought in May, for example) to very bad losses (if they bought in January, or after mid-November).

So bitcoin is a good hedge against inflation only for those lucky ones who have a time machine in their attic that allows them to buy their coins in 2013 to sell now. For those who are forced to buy now to sell in the future, it is not an investment: it is a gamble in a lottery with unknown prize and unknown odds.

Very practical analysis.

And yes, buying bitcoin is a gamble and not an investment.

JorgeStolfi

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Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: Harley997 on July 04, 2014, 06:39:21 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on July 04, 2014, 03:24:44 PM

The point is that there have been periods when the purchasing power of 1 BTC dropped by more than 50%.

You could pick two arbitrary points in time and could make a negative point about any currency or any investment. You are not going to find any financial unit of measurement that will go up in a straight line.

Hm, when was the last 6-month period where the purchase power of the dollar fell 50%?

The Brazilian real did that in 1996 (days after the reelection of the president whose only campaign point was its stability). Since then it has fallen gradually by another 30% perhaps.

Quote from: Harley997 on July 04, 2014, 06:39:21 PM

Over long periods of time the purchasing power of bitcoin has increased.

Indeed, anyone who bought bitcoin at any time before November 1st, 2013 has seen about 1000% increase per year on average.

BUT those who bought after that moment have had a much mixed returns, from very good gains (if they bought in May, for example) to very bad losses (if they bought in January, or after mid-November).

So bitcoin is a good hedge against inflation only for those lucky ones who have a time machine in their attic that allows them to buy their coins in 2013 to sell now. For those who are forced to buy now to sell in the future, it is not an investment: it is a gamble in a lottery with unknown prize and unknown odds.

Harley997

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Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on July 04, 2014, 03:24:44 PM

Quote from: Harley997 on July 04, 2014, 02:13:56 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on July 04, 2014, 07:03:31 AM

How much did 1 BTC buy on November 28, how much did it buy on January 18, How much now, how much on May 10? And how much will it buy next month, next year?

You cannot use short, specific time periods to compare buying ability. When you do that you can easily pick and choose periods that make the data work in your favor.

The point is that there have been periods when the purchasing power of 1 BTC dropped by more than 50%.

You could pick two arbitrary points in time and could make a negative point about any currency or any investment. You are not going to find any financial unit of measurement that will go up in a straight line. Over long periods of time the purchasing power of bitcoin has increased.

JorgeStolfi

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: Harley997 on July 04, 2014, 02:13:56 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on July 04, 2014, 07:03:31 AM

How much did 1 BTC buy on November 28, how much did it buy on January 18, How much now, how much on May 10? And how much will it buy next month, next year?

You cannot use short, specific time periods to compare buying ability. When you do that you can easily pick and choose periods that make the data work in your favor.

The point is that there have been periods when the purchasing power of 1 BTC dropped by more than 50%.

There is no reason to believe that it cannot drop another 50% or more from its current price, at any time. There is no reason to believe that it will not stay low forever, if and when it drops. Bitcoin enthusiasts hope that it won't, but cannot say why it would not.

So how could one honestly advise people to exchange their pesos for bitcoins?

Keeping one's wealth as cash or simple bank accounts (in pesos or any other currency) is not a good idea in any case, inflation or no inflation. However, to escape infation one should pick an investment that can reasonably be expected to retain most of its real value, like real estate (if it is not in a bubble), or bonds that are automatically corrected for inflation. Bitcoins simply cannot serve that purpose: logic says that its purchase power is unpredictable, and experience confirms that it can devaluate much faster than the peso.

Harley997

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Merit: 250

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on July 04, 2014, 07:03:31 AM

Quote from: Harley997 on July 04, 2014, 04:13:16 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on June 30, 2014, 08:53:12 PM

Bitcoin is not a viable hedge against inflation, not even in Argentina. Pushing it on Argentinians as such is a scam, pure and simple. Have people forgotten Neo & Bee already? Angry

Bitcoin is by concept a deflationary currency. Deflation is the opposite of inflation. When inflation rises, assets that are deflationary will rise, but will still be able to purchase the same amount of goods/services

Concept is not reality.

How much did 1 BTC buy on November 28, how much did it buy on January 18, How much now, how much on May 10? And how much will it buy next month, next year?

Now compare that with gold, stock, or even the Argentinian peso...

Until there are concrete reasons to believe that it value cannot fall as much again, bitcoin cannot be considered a hedge against inflation; and "selling" it as such is scamming.

You cannot use short, specific time periods to compare buying ability. When you do that you can easily pick and choose periods that make the data work in your favor.

silvercane

newbie

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Merit: 0

Inactive accounts with tiny amounts in them, fees, tiny deposits etc make exchanges a very large amount of money. Though, there are a lot of legal complications so setting up an exchange definitely is not an easy task

izanagi narukami

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Activity: 2030

Merit: 1028

Quote from: Gilberto on February 04, 2014, 06:16:25 AM

MCXNow, Crypsy, BTCT, BTC-E?

I'm conducting a survey to determine the actual profitability of the popular exchanges.

Does anyone have any idea of what the volume is for these exchanges? What these exchanges make weekly or monthly and how we could find out?

looking by their volume transaction, it must be more than 1000 BTC / month
I think we can calculate by their FEE policy and most of the exchanger using payment vote.
Of course that will make the exchanger gain high profit

ah... i wish i know how to make exchanger Grin

of course i will not SCAM people because it's a big SIN Sad

JorgeStolfi

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: Harley997 on July 04, 2014, 04:13:16 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on June 30, 2014, 08:53:12 PM

Bitcoin is not a viable hedge against inflation, not even in Argentina. Pushing it on Argentinians as such is a scam, pure and simple. Have people forgotten Neo & Bee already? Angry

Bitcoin is by concept a deflationary currency. Deflation is the opposite of inflation. When inflation rises, assets that are deflationary will rise, but will still be able to purchase the same amount of goods/services

Concept is not reality.

How much did 1 BTC buy on November 28, how much did it buy on January 18, How much now, how much on May 10? And how much will it buy next month, next year?

Now compare that with gold, stock, or even the Argentinian peso...

Until there are concrete reasons to believe that it value cannot fall as much again, bitcoin cannot be considered a hedge against inflation; and "selling" it as such is scamming.

Harley997

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on June 30, 2014, 08:53:12 PM

Quote from: BitchicksHusband on June 30, 2014, 04:31:17 PM

Quote from: arbitrage001 on June 24, 2014, 10:07:12 PM

Why would citizen of emerging market will choose bitcoin vs their own currency?

Let me answer that in one word: Argentina.

Please stop that nonsense. Bitcoin is not a viable hedge against inflation, not even in Argentina. Pushing it on Argentinians as such is a scam, pure and simple. Have people forgotten Neo & Bee already? Angry

Bitcoin is by concept a deflationary currency. Deflation is the opposite of inflation. When inflation rises, assets that are deflationary will rise, but will still be able to purchase the same amount of goods/services

Gargulan

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Activity: 231

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on June 30, 2014, 08:53:12 PM

Quote from: BitchicksHusband on June 30, 2014, 04:31:17 PM

Quote from: arbitrage001 on June 24, 2014, 10:07:12 PM

Why would citizen of emerging market will choose bitcoin vs their own currency?

Let me answer that in one word: Argentina.

Please stop that nonsense. Bitcoin is not a viable hedge against inflation, not even in Argentina. Pushing it on Argentinians as such is a scam, pure and simple. Have people forgotten Neo & Bee already? Angry

Yes. When a country is in trouble, people worry about how to take care of their family. Security, food and medical kits probably worth more to them than bitcoin.

InwardContour

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Activity: 644

Merit: 260

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on June 29, 2014, 04:33:15 PM

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 29, 2014, 03:48:18 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on June 28, 2014, 08:45:56 PM

One thing that would improve transparency a lot would be to attach a scrambled client ID to each bid/ask submission, and the two IDs to each trade

This would get a lot of people to stay away from exchanges, at least people who plan on buying/selling large amounts. If it was clear that scrambled id "1234" was buying large amount of bitcoin then other traders could also buy expecting the large buyer to further drive up the price. The result would be that this large trader essentially pays a higher price then if several small traders bought the same amount at the same time

Yes, many traders would not like even that limited increment in transparency.

Most, if not all largish (and bigger) traders would not like this. It would allow for people to have more information about who has how much coin.

If for example every time that trader "x" bought 200BTC within two hours there was 200BTC(+-5BTC) moved on the blockchain and some of the time the input address(es) were known exchange addresses. An attacker could then trace those coins to his identity.

JorgeStolfi

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Merit: 1003

Quote from: BitchicksHusband on June 30, 2014, 04:31:17 PM

Quote from: arbitrage001 on June 24, 2014, 10:07:12 PM

Why would citizen of emerging market will choose bitcoin vs their own currency?

Let me answer that in one word: Argentina.

Please stop that nonsense. Bitcoin is not a viable hedge against inflation, not even in Argentina. Pushing it on Argentinians as such is a scam, pure and simple. Have people forgotten Neo & Bee already? Angry

InwardContour

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 260

Quote from: BitchicksHusband on June 30, 2014, 04:31:17 PM

Quote from: arbitrage001 on June 24, 2014, 10:07:12 PM

Quote from: InwardContour on June 22, 2014, 11:23:40 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 22, 2014, 11:45:09 AM

Quote from: GangkisKhan on June 19, 2014, 02:12:46 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 19, 2014, 12:01:28 PM

I don't know about the other exchanges, but monthly revenue for BTC-E is somewhere in the range of BTC2,000. That means around $1.2 million per month and $15 million per year. Don't know the net income.

That is huge profit for an exchange. No wonder no major exchange want to offer equity.

Right now I don't think that will be a good idea. 99% of the world population don't know about Bitcoin. The exchange rate and adoption will increase logarithmically in the coming few years. Once that happens, they can list the exchanges in NASDAQ or some other stock market.

It does not matter if a currency is listed on a stockmarket.

Once citizens of emerging markets start to use bitcoin then it can reach it's potential.

Why would citizen of emerging market will choose bitcoin vs their own currency?

Let me answer that in one word: Argentina.

Argentina actually has a lot of foreign currency reserves. They have much more then they need to pay back their holdout creditors, they simply do not want to pay them as they have a history of being a deadbeat nation

BitchicksHusband

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Quote from: arbitrage001 on June 24, 2014, 10:07:12 PM

Quote from: InwardContour on June 22, 2014, 11:23:40 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 22, 2014, 11:45:09 AM

Quote from: GangkisKhan on June 19, 2014, 02:12:46 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 19, 2014, 12:01:28 PM

I don't know about the other exchanges, but monthly revenue for BTC-E is somewhere in the range of BTC2,000. That means around $1.2 million per month and $15 million per year. Don't know the net income.

That is huge profit for an exchange. No wonder no major exchange want to offer equity.

Right now I don't think that will be a good idea. 99% of the world population don't know about Bitcoin. The exchange rate and adoption will increase logarithmically in the coming few years. Once that happens, they can list the exchanges in NASDAQ or some other stock market.

It does not matter if a currency is listed on a stockmarket.

Once citizens of emerging markets start to use bitcoin then it can reach it's potential.

Why would citizen of emerging market will choose bitcoin vs their own currency?

Let me answer that in one word: Argentina.

Topic: How profitable are exchanges? - page 7. (Read 15755 times)