Topic: How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World - page 15. (Read 8965 times)

You are correct, but this is so wrong audience. These people don´t want to hear it. This forum is the place where BTC white paper was released. Their Bible.

Some of them don´t want to listen to this. They want you to show how there is still a hope that they get their hard-earned FIAT back.

But, most of them... already know all of this. This is where they produce legends, news, and "information" about BTC. They know very well, that their money comes from simple-minded and they are OK with it. And you will see, that the vast majority will get away with no penalty from this scam. I´d say, it's the most ingenious scheme of all time.

Everything is explained in the OP . Value of X is how people are able benefit from X without selling the X to new investors. Btw, money is value.

From btc units no one is able to benefit, and people must dump them to new investors. Hence, bitcoin is not money, but a classical ponzi in an online form splitted into 21x8 million units. Of course, you could split the ponzi into trillion units, nothing would change given no value exists in the system. If you split nothing into 10 or 10 trillion units you still have nothing. Like I sad, you will learn these facts the hard way.

Explain this cuz it doesn’t make sense. What value is transferred or stored into gold? I already explained you what properties a store of value must have. You don’t understand how the world works. Gold is not a bank account that stores usd, and neither is bitcoin. They’re things in itself with fluctuating supply and demands from the outside. Their properties influence how much value the market assigns to it.

So value is transferred and stored, your personal emotions towards something you don’t value, don’t determine free market exchange rates. Ik it’s hard to make emotional people accept this.

Nah, Bitcoin itself is the valuable thing, that people are exchanging other things for (money, services, goods etc.). Supply and demand vary for an asset with low degree of adoption, it’s something expected. The Bitcoins you hold yourself don’t fluctuate, just the price people are willing to pay, at this particular moment in time, aka exchange rate.

If there’s no demand for something(no matter if gold, fiat or bitcoin) then the exchange rate will be low in a free market. Let’s see if you’re mentally capable to understand this. Then explain why Bitcoin would reach a state of 0 demand, waiting.

Bitcoin won’t collapse if no new people come in, it can be used as a unit of account already. I could do trades without ever needing an exchange rate. If me and jay for example wanted to set up a trade, we would never need to touch a dollar, if we so choose to. We can determine the trade individually or let the market decide. It is not a ponzi that collapses without new investors. The only thing that happens without new investors is that maybe some individual expectations get crushed, because it won’t rise forever. But it still works as money, regardless of the exchange rate or new investors.

The better question you should ask yourself is, how money comes into existence organically, and once you understand this, it makes your ponzi assumptions look ridiculous.

Prime example of the Dunning–Kruger effect.

I am providing facts, you're providing propaganda. Facts are simple. In the bitcoin system value is neither stored nor transfered. What is stored and transfered is the info about how many ponzi units people have or had have. Value is brought from the outside and traded for those ponzi units. Given that in the ponzi system no value exists, all current holders of unis are doomed if nobody brings in the value. Unfortunately, all you blind believes will learn the above facts the hard way.

Hahahahhah thanks man, plagiarism would be boring, but what i did isn’t rocket science. It’s just taking basic economic properties of money and then evaluating them yourself. This is already an established model in economics.

You can check it out anywhere yourself, if you search for the properties of money. What’s more interesting is how money comes into existence and how different forms of money compete with each other, that’s what im currently researching, i might make a thread that goes in deep about how an individual can evaluate all this.

Free Ones sucks 😔, It shows always 100% unique even if it is not unique but some of them are 70% Stable like they Detect the possible Palgrism if content is Public on any other Location.

Wow... I did not realize that there were places that would give percentages.... and I suppose that comes in handy.. especially for teachers... 

We may get something out of this thread.. because certainly Snowshow is not providing any value.. beyond perhaps a wee bit of comedy relief here and there...

Do you have a link for the plagiarizing check site?

Is it free?

Bravo! That's the way guys. That's how the ponzi units called BTC are presented to the public to scam people to join the ponzi so that current victims could get out of it.

Literally all current holders of BTC units need someone from the outside of the bitcoin system to bring the value in because no value exists in the system to benefit the holders. You can write whatever you want, but this fact won't change. System's units are completely worthless. And that's why the holders must talk positive about the system and its units. Only in that way they are able to scam the outsiders to bring in the value in the exchange for the worthless units. You're the participants of a digital ponzi. Nothing less and nothing more.

This is a great text, mate! At first I couldn't believe it wasn't plagiarised, so I checked it, and it's 100% unique!



Well, I'll say it agian, imo it's an amazing text. It's simple and yet informative. I can't imagine a better way to explain someone that BTC is not only money, but it is better money than fiat and gold.

Thank you for taking effort to write it.

Its tiring to run in circles Snowshow, so lemme explain what you didnt get yet.

1. What’s money?

- A good that enables a system of indirect trade(contrary to a barter system)
- Has 3 main properties ->
   1. Ability to hold value over time(Store of Value)
   2. Ability to be easily sent and accepted over large distances(Medium of Exchange)
   3. Ability to be easily grouped and divided(Unit of Account)

2. How are these properties achieved?

- A Store of value needs
   -> 1. Scarcity(Supply relative to other goods)
                              
Bitcoin(21 million limit), Fiat(unlimited and rising), Gold(Scarce, but not limited)

   -> 2. Durability(No loss in functionality with repeated use)

Bitcoin(digital, so durable), Fiat(mostly digital now, but less durable), Gold(was the most durable once, could still be considered the most durable depending on the pov)

- A Medium of Exchange needs
   -> 1. Acceptability(Used and accepted by others)

Bitcoin(still low), Fiat(highest), Gold(high, but not everywhere)

   -> 2. Portability(Easily moveable across distances)

Bitcoin(extremly easy and fast, can move faster than the person itself, least costly solution for high amounts today), Fiat(Bills need to be transported manually(also dangerous), banking system takes a long time over large distances, need to be converted into different currencies), Gold(terribly hard, expensive and dangerous)

- A Unit of Account needs
   -> 1. Divisibility(Easily dividable into smaller units)

Bitcoin(Easy, 8 decimal places), Fiat(also good), Gold(terrible, needs a lot of work)

   -> 2. Fungibility(1 unit is the same as the other)

Bictoin(All units are the same, altough some people argue that the history of coins can affect its desirability for others, cant be counterfeited), Fiat(Bills are the same, but higher ones arent accepted everywhere, can be counterfeited, less relevant for digital fiat), Gold(theres different coins with different desirabilities, also its not easy to verify real gold for everyone)

Now what does only Bitcoin have -> Immutability(transaction finality).

3. What speaks for Bitcoin as money?

- Its superior in all properties listed above, except acceptability. If you think a potential money with superior propierties can gain acceptance over time, then its smart to invest in it, but know the risks.
- Greshams law(check it out yourself)
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Greshams-law

Theres for sure more to say, but this is enough for now. When you can debunk these points we can go on further.

Why? No! Why do you say so? I read the OP, and I even read the replies and your replies to those replies, not all of them, but a fair part. It's just, there is nothing new in the OP for many of us on this forum. You can't imagine how many times we've read that Bitcoin's a scam, a financial pyramid etc, especially in the times like this, during a bear market. But they are always flawed, those theories. For example, you are saying, "People are able to benefit from it(BTC) only by selling its units to new investors." This is not true. Take crypto gambling sites, a part of a multi billion gambling industry. Do the owners benefit only from selling Bitcoin to new investors? Or, when people use BTC for international payments with low fees, doesn't it run counter to your statement that "bitcoin ssystem ... provides zero services" ?

So, you've ignored the OP, and instead, created fantasies about the author.  How's that not trolling?

From what I read in this thread it looks like you invested in BTC all your money when it was around $70k, and then cashed out recently fearing it's going to zero. Well, you shouldn't have done both, imo. Also, coming here and telling people that Bitcoin has no value, telling it to the people who, no doubt, value BTC, it is called trolling, and this is probably the third thing you should not have done.

Overall, you look like someone, when cars were invented, saying, this metal garbage will never replace good ol' horses.

Bitcoin is not an asset, but a unit in a system that has zero assets to benefit the unit holders which is why they are forced to dump their worthless units to new investors like in all investment scams. And sure, scams can have huge market cap and return.

Bitcoin is the best asset in terms of market cap and return. People have made really good money with bitcoin. Bitcoin is based on blockchain which is the future of the internet and it is absolutely not a myth.

I edited the OP, AGAIN, just for you. If you don't get it now, then you're a lost case.

firstly you failed to define your "anyone".
you did not say "everyone". nor did you use a scenario of it having to be me specifically. so "anyone" can be anyone.

in my experience. those "anyones" that bought from me were not new investors outside of the system they were people already in the bitcoin community that found me and during conversations about bitcoin they wanted to buy more.. so they were not new investors.

the reasons why the scenario happened was that they were under the delusions of the hype propaganda of "get rich quick" "double your money in x months". which i tried to correct them about, and tried to explain that its not a get rich quick scheme, and instead a slow progressive deflationary hedge against inflation. i felt sorry for them, thinking that they were not prepared for the long haul. and so i offered them an refund if they changed their mind in the short term. knowing they were dreaming of getting returns only X months.
(so i atleast secured their dream of atleast breaking even in that said short term)

that was my decision. and "bitcoin" is not some sentient AI that makes those decisions. just like a share certificate is not a sentient AI that decides its terms and conditions of who gets to trade shares



the system did not issue bitcoin. the system stores/logs bitcoins issued by PEOPLE that mine it.
if there are no people mining bitcoin there are no bitcoins.

bitcoin is not some 'perpetual motion machine' that self runs, it relies on peoples time and work effort.. and people value their time, work effort and costs... and thats what they decide to sell their units of measure they acquire from their time.effort and costs.

bitcoin does not mine itself. bitcoin does not sell coins or issue coins itself. its people

people write code to collate transactions into a block. people design and create miners to then hash the collated blocks. and people then decide who to distribute the coin rewards of those blocks.

the system of bitcoin is not some intelligent AI that self determines who deserves what. bitcoin system does not determine its own price nor does it decide who to sell to.. PEOPLE DO

once you learn what bitcoin is and how it works. then and only then will it make sense to you. and that is where your assertions fail..
your failure is thinking the bitcoin system is some sentient AI

..
as for your silly mantra about banks notes and loans and borrowers. i distinctly remember educating you on your previous account name, that you having a bank note does not gain you more value from borrowers. you get no interest increase in value from holding a bank note. again infact and for emphasis the longer you hold a bank note the less value it has, because all that 'money creation' via 'loans' dilutes the value of circulation..

yep loans cause less value.
why?
simple.
loans are not created due to 'borrowing'.
a bank does not take funds out of one account to give to someone else.
a bank literally creates new money when a loan agreement is created. and gives new money to the person requesting it. with terms that the person has to give the amount back to the BANK plus x%.

people taking loans are not repaying bank customers holding bank notes.
you think that people taking loans do pay those holding bank notes.. again thats another flaw of your misunderstanding of how financial systems work

please. dont waste another year creating another account just to start again with your delusions on repeat. instead break the cycle and spend the time learning how actual economics works.

so go research. and then come back in a few months. with a fresh mindset after doing some research. with a new prospective of economics. and then we can have a more rational debate based on facts, not your delusions.

yep. please go do some research because you have wasted a year on 4 accounts saying the same thing based on your unresearched mis-understanding of economics. and as soon as you get debunked. you simply created another account and started again pretending the debate never happened and pretending you never got corrected.. break the cycle, learn something.

I admit, you make me laugh the most. Anyone that bought from you is a new investor. They are not the the part of bitcoin system. The system issued bitcoin, so you must benefit from within that system. Which is of course impossible, given the system has no capital like companies or collaterals and borrowers like banking system. Nor is bitcon a product that you can use for satisfying your needs. But like I said, I am having fun watching your answers.

you need to first understand things before you can understand the answers given

your question:
"Can anyone return their investments without new investors? Answer the question."

answer: YES "anyone" that bought from me have gotten a refund if they wanted one.

debate over. have a nice day

...
now the question has been answered(repeatedly)
i want you to buy 2 tesla shares.. wait for the price to drop a bit and then try to get a refund of your shares without involving another investor....  learn something
learn how actual markets, investments shares/assets and trades actually work in the real world by you actually buying some

what you will learn:

you are never buying coins/assets/shares from "the system" nor are you buying "the system". you are buying units of account of/in a system from a seller

where its the seller that you are buying from that decides if they wish to offer anything after the sale

returns policy is not set by "the system" its set by the sellers decision of the terms they choose to add when they sell, as an after sales service. this applies to everything from shares to products or assets.
its not a fault of any financial system. its the discretion of the seller to offer any after sales services/policy.. this is true for all coins/assets/shares/products