Topic: How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World - page 16. (Read 8965 times)

That entity is an investor in the bitcoin system. I am asking how anyone can benefit from the units of that system without new investors. I know that it's impossible to benefit, but I am having fun watching how pathetic you can become in defending this obvious scam.

You still haven't answered my question. You just write irrelevant things.

if you are unsure you want to keep your BTC purchase.
you can set up a policy with an escrow service where they create a multisig where they control the fiat and btc transactions. so that if you change your mind the escrow service sends the BTC back to the original owner and sends the fiat back to you.

there are many escrow services around.

Nice try, but one entity can be grantor and beneficiary at the same time. Yet no Bitcoin sold, no loss on the balance sheet and more fiat cashed out. That’s actually how El Salvador handles their Bitcoin and it’s a really smart design. You got proven wrong.

talking to yourself.. i first asked you to choose which you are talking about because you cant seem to tell the difference

YOU are the one that flip flops and changes your mind about if bitcoin is a unit of account IN a system or the system itself.

using your own latest words: "units IN a system".. you are not buying "the system" you are buying units/assets within the system.

EG when a factory (steel building, no brain) creates a product. the factory(steel building) cant offer refunds of the product. instead you have to seek out a HUMAN that has sold you the product made in the factory.. yep . a steel building did not sell you a product.
a steel building has no eyes or brain to create terms/conditions/contracts. a steel building cannot make offers of sale/swap/exchange/refund

its like gold at fort knox. buying gold in fort knox is not the same as buying the building of fort knox.

when you are buying bitcoin. you are buying units of account within the network. you are not buying the network. you are buying units from other people. so you need to speak to that seller.
the network has no eyes, brain or hand to offer you anything and the network did not take your money when you bought bitcoin

you are not buying from "the system" just like you are not buying TESLA shares from tesla..
you are buying share OF TESLA but tesla does not have a refund policy.
you instead buy shares from nasdaq or a different trading platform (where your investment came from)..

you cant just turn up at tesla HQ and say "gimme refund"
you cant knock on elons door and say "gimme refund"

instead you have to look at the contract terms of your account with nasdaq/other trading platform you bought shares from, to see if nasdaq/other platform has a returns policy of shares

much like tesla released its shares to nasdaq and people buy shares from nasdaq, you would have to check the terms and conditions of nasdaq.
if nasdaq sold shares to another trading platform and you bought shares from the other trading platform you need to check the terms/polcies of that other platform.

again you cant just run upto elon and demand a refund from him as thats not how shares work

you need to check with who you bought btc/shares/asset/product from to see what their terms are for returns

what you buy is a unit of measure. you are not buying the network. you are buying a unit of account within the network. which have terms attached.

EG some shares are asset based or property based. some shares are "advisory". you need to learn these basic concepts if you really want to have any form of proper debate about them

so again and for the last time.
if you are thinking of buying bitcoin. check who you are buying it from and ask of they will offer a satisfaction returns policy.

if you are thinking of buying shares. read the account(nasdaq/your trading platform) terms and conditions.
but ill give you a little hint. share trading platforms including nasdaq do not have a satisfaction returns policy or offer refunds of 100% of purchase value

So basically, the exchange is a new investor. There you go: you just proved that no one can return their investment from the bitcoin system. This makes that system a scam. The system is worthless and used just as a bait to get people in, who then need new investors to get out.

Do you just pretend to be stupid or are you really that dumb? Can you tell the difference between a product and a system? Bitcoin, dollar, company's share are not products like cars or bikes, but units in a system. In a system you invest, and then that system must be able to return the investment in the future to the unit holder. So, try again.

In that case the entity behind the trust fund is a new investor. Try again. Let's me help you. In a banking system you hold units of debt and you benefit when the debt is paid. So, no new investor needed. In a product, you hold intrinsic value and you benefit by satisfying your needs with that value. Again, no new investor needed. In a company you hold shares in capital. Capital produces intrinsic value or is itself intrinsic value, which you also can use for satisfying your needs. So again, no new investor needed. In the bitcoin system you hold units of that system, and the only thing this system does is store record about its own units. Hence, a system that exists for its own sake. How do you benefit from this without new investors?

im still waiting for him to cry when he buys TESLA shares, and when the price declines he realises that he cant just give the shares back and get a full refund(like he pretends he thinks happens). and then cries more that shares and tesla is a scam..  ... because he has no clue about investments, economics or how exchanges and trade work

No.


Yes.

And before you think: "Oh wait a minute, if you sell your coins to someone, like an exchange, it's going to be owned by somebody" the person who now owns the coins can always burn them (by sending them to a lost address) and the buyer is left with cash.

That means the seller is functioning as a bank and allowing true (from your point of view) withdrawals. In fact, this is directly related to the topic of this thread, because it answers the question posed by you in the topic of the thread.


Well I did. It's your choice whether you want to believe what we are telling you or not.


It is not.


At any time they want, they can simply give the "worthless coins" to the exchange (you know, the bank) which then issues them with real cash and burns the coins.

Just put this sentence inside your head and keep repeating it to yourself, it will eventually come true.


That's "It's really pathetic how you people are trying to defend the scam". If you are going to lecture people about economics, you had better use correct grammar, otherwise people are going to think that you are some 12-year-old pasting statements from a book.

the question has been answered.

just like any product/asset. if the seller you bought the asset/product from offers a satisfaction returns policy then yes you can get your investment back.

any product/asset never comes with an after sales satisfaction policy as standard. its up to the seller you bought it from to decide if they wish to offer a returns policy for a full refund.

its got nothing to do with the product, its the seller that decides.

so the answer is simple. find someone who is selling bitcoin that will offer a returns policy that meets your preferences.

bitcoin is not a central company or a 'system' where you pay "the system". you are always paying a person that owns the coins. so have a chat with that person before buying bitcoin.

again for emphasis. i personally have sold bitcoin to people i know and if they changed their mind i happily accept the coins back and give them a refund of the original purchase price.

so again YES it is possible to get your money back.. but like all products/assets. it all depends on who you buy the product/asset from

What do you mean by accepting currency or commodity. Currency (fiat) is unit of debt. Commodity is intrinsic value. "Accepting" those in a trade means valuating whether a thing you are going to give up in a trade is approximately valuable to units of debt or to intrinsic value in a commodity. But how do you determine whether a thing that you are going to give up in a trade is approximately valuable to the units of crypto that someone offers in the market? What exactly do you valuate if crypto unit is not debt, not intrinsically valuable, not capital, not productive, nothing. So, what do people "accept"?

I am not sure if this is really a universal test to be honest. For practical goods this of course works. If there is no intrinsic value in a good itself than people don't need it and shouldn't be buying it. But this doesn't hold true for commodities or currencies. Let's say you buy a basket of precious metals including gold and silver, then everybody would agree it's really valuable. For ourselves the intrinsic value would be 0, we can't eat the metals or do something useful with it. The whole value for the commodity basket comes from what other people would pay for it. Same goes for some emerging market currencies that investors buy only with the goal to sell them for more money in the future. The value itself for us 0 because we can't use that money in the shop. As long as other people are accepting the currencies or commodities and exchange them for other goods they are valuable and not a scam, same goes for crypto currencies.

So you're unable to answer the question. Nice. That's because you know bitcoin is a scam. People are trading the units of a system that's completely worthless, and of course they are forced to wait for someone to save them out of that units. It's reality funny how pathetic you people are trying to defend the scam.

Well, people here ignore the theme of this topic in literally every post. So, I will keep repeating what the theme is.

The level of your ignorance and denial is stunning. Tesla is in the business of producing cars and has capital. You cannot compare Tesla to bitcoin scam. This scam only has protocols fot attributing the units in nothing after people invested in this nothingness. Which is why they cannot return even a dime worth of investment without someone entering and saving their ass. When you said that you sold bitcoin, that's someone saving your ass from the scam.

No one is interested in your irrelevant questions. My question is simple, relevant and concerned with the theme of this topic. You currently have the whole army of bitcoin holders who invested in the units of the bitcoin system. Can anyone return their investments without new investors? Answer the question.

My man.  You said this exact thing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 times only in the last 3 pages.  Are you in need of some help?  Facing some mental blockage with this 'new investors' question of yours?  Seems like everyone answers this simple question about every time you ask it but you continue to ask again and again, or are you blind and your Text To Speech does not work properly?

Just accept it and move on.  You are wrong and probably wrote this theory while being high or something.  Or join Craig Wright's crib and do business together, because you are just as convinced of your own fantasies as him.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

return their investment to where.. maybe you should learn bitcoin. there is no central company called bitcoin..
you never pay "the bitcoin system" to purchase bitcoin in the first place. because thats not how currency works. its not how bitcoin works.
(random people mine it and sell it. other random people buy it)
can you atleast try to make the distinction of how you want to think of bitcoin, as a asset(analogy: product) or a service(analogy: retailer) and stick with one.

thats the brilliant point of it. you never get your coin from a central company. its always a currency you get from people. those people could be direct face to face or using an agent /exchange that is the middleman service.

you do know what currency is right.. its a medium of exchange..
the purpose of currency is that it does change hands. meaning it is exchanged for something else of value deemed reasonable to the parties involved in the exchange.

if you want some 14 day return policy of 'if your not completely satisfied with your purchase then send it back to us and we will refund you' go buy some btc from someone that has this extra customer satisfaction condition.
not all retailers give products a satisfaction returns policy. and that does not make the product a scam.
products do not come with satisfaction aftersales service as standard. its upto the seller to offer it. not the product

infact. i have sold BTC to people and a few days later they have changed their mind and i accepted their btc back and gave them their money back at the original purchase rate.. so to answer your question.. yes someone can return their investment without funds contributed by new investors..

you just have to find the right person to get the coins from that offers such a customer satisfaction returns policy..
retail products dont come with satisfaction returns policy as standard. its upto the retailer to decide if they want to offer such a complimentary aftersales services.

oh and by the way..
not all corporations 'buy-back' shares on demand. you might want to research fiat investments while also learning about bitcoin utility/function/economics.

but i do laugh.. if you ever thought people can just hand their shares back and get 100% refund at anytime.. then you will find out the hard way, that shares dont work how you think they work

go on i dare you.. buy 2 shares of TESLA at (time of post) $704 each
and wait for the price to drop below $704. and then try to hand them back to elon musk and ask him for $1408.. i guarantee you he wont give you it.

Can you get more dollars without another person/entity giving it to you? You dont understand that Bitcoiners dont want more dollars, they want more Bitcoin.