Topic: How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World - page 21. (Read 8983 times)

I really don't get all this your hatred for Bitcoin but what I don't understand is how do you understand Fiat currency and not Bitcoin? So back in the years when there was no paper money and people would do trade by bather and later cowries and eventually paper money, how did all this method got accepted? because the people accepted them. So some ink can be printed on paper and because the government told you that is it's worth you accepted it and if that same value is transmitted digitally for transactions you still accept it even without the physical nature and Bitcoin is difficult for you to understand?

Yeah, I hit the nail on the head with this one. Even you, who is capable of writing a wall of text in order to respond to a single word, were left speechless.

You're coming off as desperate Snowshow.  

You should have stopped while you were ahead... (presuming that at some point you might have been ahead, which is a pretty BIG presumption)..

 

Everything you said in this topic, is a some kind of bitcoin marketing or evangelism. In reality, there's not much to say about bitcoin. It's just an evidence, a some form of certificate, verifying that people invested in the bitcoin system. While the whole bitcoin system is just a distributed storing of these certificates. From the investment point of view there's zero value in all this. But given that people, you included, bought these certificates which grant access to zero value, you're all forced to find new suckers otherwise you won't be able to return your investments. And this is where the need for storytelling, marketing and evangelism came from. From the fact that certificates are completely worthless. If something is worthless, and you must sell it at a higher price, than you will use all your rhetorical and other powers to present it in a positive way. And that's all what you bitcoin holders are doing all day long. Storytelling, marketing and evangelism that show bitcoin as some kind gift from the sky that will save humanity, make poor counties rich, revolutionarize financial world, replace fiat currency system, and so on. A mere worthless certificates will do all that. It's hilarious and pathetic. But I understand. In order to get rid of something worthless, all means are allowed.

I don't know if I need to push anything.

A somewhat funny thing about bitcoin continues to be that it does not really have any kind of a marketing team.. even though there are various bitcoin evangelists.. and people who do promote bitcoin. sometimes for free and sometimes they get paid, but bitcoin does not have any kind of marketing budget.

Some folks from within bitcoin do want to give back in various ways.. so maybe sometimes to the uneducated, it might seem like there is some kind of marketing team... so yes.. there is some subtlety within the ideas of benefiting in regards to spreading positive information about bitcoin....

There are also quite a few examples of bitcoin pumpers who end up deviating in their message and they start to pump shitcoins or they seem to get disenchanted with bitcoin.. so it is not always clear in regards to whether someone is speaking in the promotion of bitcoin or if they have gone into some other direction.. none of those kinds of supposed bitcoin promotional matters are as straight-forward as you seem to be suggesting them to be.


Even though I disagree with your characterization of newbies as if they were gullible suckers or that bitcoin HODLers are in any kind of desperate need to convince them to come into bitcoin, Bitcoin still has a pretty tiny level of adoption, so even though we cannot be sure in the short term about price fluctuations and even that some folks might get discouraged, overall the adoption and network effects continue to expand even in spite of various negative campaigns (like yours) or the actual material attempts to directly dump upon bitcoin.. so some of those folks who are engaging in naked-shorting bitcoin could end up getting their asses handed to them in pretty severe ways if they do not have the bitcoin that they claim to have or they are betting against bitcoin but they do not have adequate exposure and bitcoin prices go up rather than their DOWNity hopiums.. some of them could end up getting royally reckt (even if some people perceive them to have an infinite amount of printing power in regards to dollars to throw at trying to keep king daddy down). 

If there's something in reality - inside the bitcoin system, then why not a single holder of certificates (Bitcoins) issued by this system, is not able to return their investment from within the system, but is forced to wait for new investors to bring something in?

Do you understand now how nonsensical your analogy is?

Extremely strange argumentation. Let's say that the OS does not exist on your computer, because it is an abstract code that is somewhere out there, you don't see it and don't notice it.

For example, I cannot see the author of this topic and see only words folded into sentences. Should I assume that the author of this topic doesn't exist in reality?

People are not interested in your descriptions or fantasies about me. People are interested in truth.

And I strongly advise everyone reports that new topic to the moderators as a duplicate.  Because this spamming shitheap blatantly just wants to sweep all the arguments against him aside and post more of the same nonsense.

They should already be banned due to ban-evasion, so don't allow them to make a further mockery of the forums.

You're the victim of a false narrative. Stay tuned for my new topic. There I will explain everything and you'll realize why you're wrong. Or you can read the last couple of pages of this topic.

Please don’t tell this secrete to my bank because they just credited me with real fiat money for the bitcoins which I sold on exchanger. Lolz.

If they did not exist then such transactions would never happen. Remember it’s inter and intra connected economical system which is in loop. Miners mine it using electricity, they pay the bills, they generate revenue, we use minted coins and use them to buy products and services.

In the process fiat is also moving and making sure that bitcoin has a value.

Yes, that's the narrative you need to push in order to find new suckers in the market and sell them your worthless bitcoin certificates. But people are not buying these nonsense stories anymore. They know that thay cannot return their investments from beautiful stories on how bitcoin will be new internet or save the humanity. The pool of suckers is drying up.

No need for bolding of your whole post... diptwat.

One of the great things about an asymmetric bet like bitcoin is that you do not need to lose leverage, and sure you could lose everything. .but the value that is being created by having bitcoin as a system.. causes for so much more upside potential than has already come to this asset class.. whether it takes 2-6 years before our next upwards price run.. or maybe it could take longer (such as 8-12 years) for those who can ONLY invest small amounts to start to feel meaningful impacts on their overall financial well-being from merely responsible investing small amounts on a regular basis (something like dollar cost averaging).

Another thing is that the various systems built around bitcoin and the knowledge space has already created value (and brought value to society) above and beyond the price appreciation that
BTC accumulators and HODLers have felt on a more personal level...

Maybe it is true with all paradigm shifting technologies, whether we are talking about more recent inventions like the internet or the automobile or airplane or even the invention of the wheel.. Other things in societies  ended up getting built on such systems that had not previously been possible..   the refrigerator, radio and telephone too... oh and of course, there were other things like that, too... but bitcoin has a kind of invention of a second internet, but one that allows for value to be transmitted on top of it without anyone being able to stop the transmission of such value... It is already BIG and likely to continue to be BIG.... a part of the greatest wealth transfer ever..even if it might take 20, 50, 100, or more years to play out...   

Better if you jump onto bitcoin sooner rather than later Snowshow... #justsaying.

I see that people here vehemently ignore the important poit to which this discussion has come. So, I will make another video and open a new topic to explain this point in more detail. And maybe save some people here from the bitcoin scam. Now that the big names have invested in this scam the pool of new suckers is closer to drying up. And now is an ideal time not to be a sucker (holder) anymore. If the video that I am going to make won't convince you, due to either greed or ego, then you'll pay the price when the system callapses. And this will happen for sure. It will happen for the same reason all scams collapse - there's no value created or present in the system from which the members/holders/suckers could return their investments.

Bullshit.

You already got my response... multiple times... so stop telling me what to do over and over, when I already responded to the extent that I am going to respond.  Been there done that.


Gobbledy gook.  If I have 0.123 BTC in my possession right now, then at this moment I have right in the ballpark of $3,649 in value based on the current price of $29,666 (0.123 * $29,666). 

I could choose to spend it right now, or I could save it and take chance that its value might go up or it might go down based on how the price of it changes and based on where I might be able to liquidate it or exchange it for goods/services.

Accordingly, I can go out in the world and see the various things (goods and/or services) that might be priced at around $3,649, and figure out if I can get someone to accept my 0.123 BTC, and if in the event that I cannot find someone to accept the BTC directly, I can convert those BTC into dollars in one of the exchanges that I have an account... and then afterwards, I can pay the person from the dollars that I get from the 0.123 BTC after converting it to dollars.

Maybe I bought those BTC for the same price or for a higher price, or maybe I bought them for $30.75 in 2015 when BTC prices were in the $250 price territory.

There are a lot of possibilities, and price and value have some overlap, but if I bought the 0.123 BTC in 2015 for $30.75, and then I sold them today for $3,649. then it seems that I also received a bit of a surplus value of $3,618.25 (at least in nominal terms).


I could give less than two shits what it is in an existential description.  I know that I got $3,618.25 in surplus value from spending that 0.123 BTC, and sure, I might have experienced some other values (and maybe burdens and risks, too) by HODLing it for the last 7 years... but in the end, I go value out of having had purchased it in 2015 and having had sold it at today's price.


I doubt it matters.

Sure they are using a system, and maybe investing in the token called bitcoin.. that ended up paying off by $3,618.25 after 7 years of HODLing it.



Why do I give any shits about that either.  Whatever I did worked out.  I bought in 2015 and sold in 2022.  Great.  Works.


Seems to be working.. I just cashed out of the 0.123 BTC and got a $3,618.25 benefit.


Why do I give any shits about your fictional system.. we are talking about bitcoin here.. it is not a fictional system.. it exists... and I just cashed out those 0.123 BTC for $3,618.25 of profits by having had bought them at $30.75 in 2015.


I could say the same about you.  I have given my answers already.


No need.. I already answered several times.


I am not going to assume facts that are not in front of me.. because at this point there are people willing to buy the 0.123 BTC that I bought in 2015 for $3,649.. why do I need to presume that the buyers do not exist, when they do exist.  Furthermore, if they did not exist, then I would not be able to sell my bitcoin, but those are not facts that we actually have in front of us at this moment.. you are wanting to talk about a hypothetical that does not exist at the moment.. and I had already suggested that your hypothetical seems to have around a .001% chance of existing in the future, and sure, you have every right to assign higher odds that it might happen in the future, but we know that it does not exist right now because I see that i can sell my 0.123 BTC for $3,649 at today's price of $29,666 per BTC.


They won't get their investment if no one wants it because BTC will go to zero... .. So sure, I will agree  with you that if no one wants BTC, then BTC will be worth zero... and I will also let you know that at this time BTC is worth $29,666.. at leas at this moment as I type this post.


Yes... answered several times already.. but not sure why you keep asking about facts that are not currently in existence merely because you have a kind of wet dream that has about a .001% chance of happening.. give or take.

Yes. Bravo! You are a real genius!

Whenever a financial system collapse occurs, it is caused by a lack of faith in the stability or value of money to serve as an effective store of value or medium of exchange. This is not something you just discovered, but a well-known fact. A few recent examples: Venezuelan Bolivar in 2015, Zimbabwean Dollar in 2008, Yugoslav Dinar in the 1990s, Argentinian Peso in the 1970s... But you did not explain why you think that is going to happen with Bitcoin? Why do you believe people will lose confidence and stop using Bitcoin as a currency? Why hasn't that happened yet?

Flawed comparison. 

Certificates of investment don't grant you access to a global, independent, network which grants you the power to transfer your ownership rights to anyone, anywhere in the world, at any time.  No one can prevent the sale of your ownership rights.  No one can reverse it.  You don't need to rely on an intermediary to make the sale.  You don't need to prove your identity to anyone.  Transparency means everyone can verify that the sale has taken place, even if they can't tell who the buyer or the seller are. 

Holding an amount of bitcoin does grant you access to such a network.  The only way to access it is with bitcoins.  If the network has value, then naturally the bitcoins themselves have value.  And that's before we even get started on the scarcity aspect. 

Certificates of investment rely on brokers or investment firms.  Centralised, opaque, weak and requiring trust.  As such, you and your precious 'Traditional Finance' sector cannot rival what we have built.  Your ideology won't permit it.  You're too busy empowering middlemen to take a cut just for being a cog in the machine.  That's the real scam.  You actually believe in paying flawed and fallible humans to do something in a slow and inefficient way, when a protocol can do it far more efficiently and cheaply.

Nothing like this exists in fiat.  And never will.  That's why it's so valuable. 

You talk a lot, yet you are unable to stop us.  But the part where you keep trying so hard seems to indicate that you're threatened by us.  Does our power to disrupt middlemen threaten your preferred business model, I wonder?  Wouldn't surprise me if you were some sort of bankster or broker.  You seem sufficiently indoctrinated.

Yes. Bravo! That's the story you have to preach in order to find new suckers. Keep up the good work.

Sure, but papers that grant access to the value created or present in the system which issued those papers. In crypto, the systems that issued digital papers grant access to nothing. Which is why people are forced to find new suckers in the market to sell them the worthless papers. Eventually, the pool of suckers will dry up and the systems will collapse.

Bitcoin is a phenomenon. Something which holds potential to transform the international  economy, something which is slowly but steadily expanding its space and applications in market. Each day one or other country or institution is embracing bitcoin and this transformation will greatly help people to achieve a truly liberal economy, when we wont need currency exchanges, when international business will become as simple as retail store purchases.
The poor will be able to have higher access to funds, not only by local or national market but by international investors. The efficiency of economy will increase significantly.
So if you believe this could be enough reason to be a part of the bitcoin economy, embrace it or keep questioning the myths